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Old 16th October 2008, 19:38   #1
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Default piston rings - how do i know? (head gasket change as well)

i had a problem with my water pump leaking some time ago in my ikon 1.6. finally had to get it changed. i probably waited for too long and ended up with a suspected blown head gasket. i really don't think there's much doubt about the head gasket because of the time i waited.

the thing is that one mechanic has suggested that my piston rings need to be changed as well.

now here's the problem - if i fix the head gasket and get a compression test done then i'll get to know if the piston rings need to be replaced. however, i'll need to get the engine opened again and AFAIK the head gasket changed again!

is there any way that i can find out if the piston rings need to be replaced without a compression check so that i can do both jobs together?

another question: on the ford owners forum one guy suggested that i can change the rings with the engine still in the vehicle if i have access to the underside of the car but didn't elaborate further. even in the zetec manual i have it mentions that piston ring change is possible with the engine in the car but with special preparations. unfortunately i only have a small part of the manual - the special preparations are not in it. so can anyone tell me how i can do it.
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Old 16th October 2008, 19:51   #2
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For head gaskets look here (How to test for a failed Engine Head Gasket)
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Old 16th October 2008, 19:58   #3
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Why does your mech feel rings are also busted? And why does he suspect faulty head gasket?
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Old 16th October 2008, 20:06   #4
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Are you getting blobs of oil or slush in your coolant? If yes, then the gasket is blown.

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Originally Posted by silver_shadow View Post
i had a problem with my water pump leaking some time ago in my ikon 1.6. finally had to get it changed. i probably waited for too long and ended up with a suspected blown head gasket. i really don't think there's much doubt about the head gasket because of the time i waited.
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Old 16th October 2008, 20:18   #5
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ok i haven't checked the coolant.

the compression has definitely fallen after the water pump incident. loss of power in all gears. need to rev her up.

the RAC guy said it could be because of a fried gasket. let me mention this - one day i was driving and the engine temperature climbed to near red in a few minutes. i had to switch off and start again before i could fill up water again. there was a dry burning smell. and when i poured the water inside, it was bubbling (boiling) furiously till i poured enough. where will i see the gobs of oil? will i see it if i open the water reservoir?

the piston rings: one guy claimed that there's a bit of extra smoke. i still have to observe this myself.

dadu: i will check that link.
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Old 16th October 2008, 22:10   #6
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ok so i just read dadu's link and i do seem to have had signs of 4 at least the day that things got really bad. so what do you guys think - almost sure signs of gasket change?

what about rings?
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Old 16th October 2008, 22:41   #7
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I told you sometime ago to get the Water Pump replaced, you put it off and now end up with a MUCH bigger problem.......

Again the Pump should have costed you 1500Rs including fitting, now Say goodbye to atleast 10k.

And regarding the Rings change it when you do the head gasket as overheating would have deformed them and they may sieze at high Load/RPM.

white smoke=head gasket, blue smoke=piston rings
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Old 16th October 2008, 23:05   #8
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Well!! There are two ways of testing busted piston rings.

A. Easy way.
What you need: Car Keys

Start you car. Let it idle for 5 minutes or so. After that rev it hard. If you see white smoke comming out of exhaust vigorously. The rings are kaput.

B. Technical Way
What you need: Compression Guage, Engine oil in a dispensor, correct size Box Spanner for your spark plugs and ofcourse car keys.

1. Open the bonnet. remove a spark plug with a box spanner, Insert the compression guage.

2. Disconnect the High Tension cable from HT-Coil. (this is important, or engine will fire up)

3. Crank the engine. Take a note of the reading and match it with the factory reading (I guess you have the engine data manual already).

4. If the reading is below the actual pressure, remove the compression guage, Dispense 5-10 drops of oil (standard 20w40 will do), put back the guage. And Crank the engine again, If the compression improves, The rings need replacement.

5. Repeat the above procedure for all the cylinders.

Did i left anything??
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Old 17th October 2008, 00:07   #9
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Purrrfect,Siralec.
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Old 17th October 2008, 10:09   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post

Did i left anything??
I think you will also need to disconnect the fuel line or remove injector clips from the injector.
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Old 17th October 2008, 10:19   #11
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I might be wrong here, but just one thought.
Is it not possible to have loss of compression ( and hence power loss ) as there is problem in gasket that is leading to leak in the combustible mixture ?
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Old 17th October 2008, 10:20   #12
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Hey SirAlec any simple method available for Diesel Engine(N/A)

Thanks
Vamsi
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Old 17th October 2008, 14:20   #13
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thanks siralec. i will check it. so can the rings be changed with the engine in the car? i'm guessing if the engine has to be removed that's only going to add time and money to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mura View Post
I told you sometime ago to get the Water Pump replaced, you put it off and now end up with a MUCH bigger problem.......

Again the Pump should have costed you 1500Rs including fitting, now Say goodbye to atleast 10k.

And regarding the Rings change it when you do the head gasket as overheating would have deformed them and they may sieze at high Load/RPM.

white smoke=head gasket, blue smoke=piston rings
yes i know that. but try explaining that to your wife - when she wants to go out, she wants to go out - the car repairs can wait till she's done using it :(

Last edited by silver_shadow : 17th October 2008 at 14:22.
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Old 17th October 2008, 14:35   #14
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What we usually do to test gasket probs is to open the radiator cap and crank the engine. If the radiator spills out fluid when you crank, then you've got a blown gasket.

We tried this on my car and a friend's car (who was suspecting a gasket prob). While my car didn't spill out any fluidd, his car did.

Shan2nu
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Old 17th October 2008, 14:37   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
What we usually do to test gasket probs is to open the radiator cap and crank the engine. If the radiator spills out fluid when you crank, then you've got a blown gasket.

We tried this on my car and a friend's car (who was suspecting a gasket prob). While my car didn't spill out any fluidd, his car did.

Shan2nu
hey shantanu. you've got an orkut scrap

some more questions:
1) is there possibility of any valve damage?
2) just saw this thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ng-damage.html (Ikon Engine Overheating and Damage)

i guess i need to check the head as well. as per the 8th post - what do you guys think about the advice - shaving off a bit off the head (which will bump compression)?

Last edited by silver_shadow : 17th October 2008 at 14:41.
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