[Subaro123]

Hey Gaurav, thats the great news on A.S.S. but the cost of servicing still remains on higher side. You got ICE right, were you able to connect antennae with after market ICE?

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by Subaro123

Hey Gaurav, thats the great news on A.S.S. but the cost of servicing still remains on higher side. You got ICE right, were you able to connect antennae with after market ICE?

ya, the after sales service seems very promising, hope they keep up the good work! Also, for the ICE, my system guy did some jugad without cutting the antenna wireand hence i works proper only where the signals are strong. The couplers are still not available, I am trying to get them direct from Kenwood, lets see if my contact is able to get it. will let you know.

[suman]

Gaurav, I FINALLY stumbled onto this thread and it was an excellent read!

Congratulations once again but you can't really blame me for not looking for a Polo thread from you, can ya .

The service costs sound a little scary to me, I'm guessing the Vento will be as expensive if not more......thanks for your first impressions on the Vento A/T, that front armrest sounds like the one on the Linea! Guess that's what happens when you try to shove in an armrest irrespective of whether or not there is adequate space between the seats. Though I must confess I'm surprised to hear that the rear one is as thin too!

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by suman

Gaurav, I FINALLY stumbled onto this thread and it was an excellent read!

Congratulations once again but you can't really blame me for not looking for a Polo thread from you, can ya .

The service costs sound a little scary to me, I'm guessing the Vento will be as expensive if not more......thanks for your first impressions on the Vento A/T, that front armrest sounds like the one on the Linea! Guess that's what happens when you try to shove in an armrest irrespective of whether or not there is adequate space between the seats. Though I must confess I'm surprised to hear that the rear one is as thin too!

Thanks again Suman. Certainly, cant blame you for missing the thread. But yes, I am looking for a new thread from you...Linea, Vento, Cedia, Altis.. new lancer.

The service cost surely is on higher side, I am still unable to do the math, even if it takes 3L oil, it should cost about 3.5k plus 1k for filters..max, 600-700 for wheel alignment and balancing. Now this come to about 5.5k max. So that means, they ll charge 2.5k+ as labour. Hope I havent missed any thing (I don't think other fluids apart from engine oil will need replacement). I believe, the service cost will be more for Vento at least by a grand.

Regarding the front armrest, they have actually tried to shove one irrespective of adequate space. the rear one despite being wide (so no problem when two people want to use it) is thin sideways, looks very vague and downmarket.

[gaurav_chopra04]

6.5k kms on the clock and I have two things to report. Firstly, the front driver side power window is playing. The window refuses to roll down for some 8-10 minutes whenever it wishes to. After 10 minutes it starts working again. Dont know whats the problem but we have witnessed this about 4-5 times in last 10 days.

Secondly, some belt noise appeared today, I just checked it, wasnt there yest. Its a little chi chi when the engine is started and is at idle (doesnt appear to be ac belt as the noise is also audible when the ac is off). The noise disappears when the engine is revved over 1100rpm. I think the belt will need some adjustment.

Will try to visit the servicew station tomorrow to get the issues sorted.

Gaurav

[AvonA7]

I think this is the first issue thats been reported on Polo. Please update this thread with your feedback once resolved.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

6.5k kms on the clock and I have two things to report...Gaurav

Visited the service station to get the car checked. Although the reported fan belt noise was not there in the morning, the service staion still checked the belt and reported no problem. They lubricated the pulleys and torqued them a bit. The problem was put on diagnose test that are to be reported to the VW and I have been asked to call the service station if I do hear the noise again. Its been a couple of days and there is no belt noise at all.

Secondly, for the power window problem, the switch and wiring was uninstalled and installed back again. the service people reported that it could be due to some built up static which can obstruct power to the switch for some time. Again, I have been asked to report the issue if it comes back.

The service people were good to deal with but it took about 2 and a half hour for them to do all this. They said they need to inform VW for any problem that comes up and they only work on it after the advise from VW engineers. Cant say if its true of not ?

Lastly, I was again asked to wait in the customer lounge till the car was being worked upon. I requested them to let me in the service area but was politely refused.

Dont know why but I love to be near my car when its being worked upon. I believe its very informative and I enjoy it. Till now I have only seen Mitsubishi allowing customers to be with their car when it is being serviced. Honda, Maruti, VW dont allow access to service area.

[gaurav_chopra04]

8.4k Kms on the clock and it was time for engine oil top up. About 500 ml of oil was added to the engine for deep stick to show sufficient levels. I was charged Rs. 1035 for 1L Castrol synthetic oil (which had a MRP of 970). The bottle with remaining 500ml was handed over to me.

Well we can either blame the high revving engine or the VW for the consumption. Oil consumption is a very normal scenerio with all the VWs. Although, Oil consumption is not considered to be a good sign, modern high revving engines despite any Brand do consume engine oil.

Across VW’s line up in India, Jetta and Passat have already been reported to consume engine oil, some of which consuming unacceptable amount and some within limits. With the 3 Pot petrol and diesel motors of Polo (petrol also shared by Fabia), the oil consumption seem to be consistent as of now. I had a word with couple of owners at the service station and each owner reported oil consumption between 400 and 700 ml in about 8 to 10k Kms. This was further testified by the service advisor who said that this level of oil consumption is normal in Polo.

BHPian Chetan has also reported the same level of consumption on his diesel polo.

Well, if I take into account a little bit I know about engines, its the piston rings that does not allow oil to enter the combustion chamber and does not allow fuel and air mixture in the combustion chamber to enter the sump area.

Now talking about all the cars I have known including 800, 5-Speed 800, Alto 1.1, Santro, Swift Petrol & Diesel, Lancer, Cedia, Ikon, Civic and Polo, only two cars that joined the family in last one year, civic and polo, both of which have high revving engines have shown oil consumption. The civic now with 35k+ kms on the clock have been consistent with the oil consumption of about 500 ml every 5k kms. The polo too considering it has a smaller engine than the civic have consumed a similar 500 ml of oil in about 8k kms.

The 800 and Santro both of which have over a decade old high revving engine, have not reported oil consumption in their initial life. The Honda and VW on the other hand, claim their engines to be best in class. Oil consumption is actually considered by most as signs of engine overhauling…lolz.. with the new engines don’t know if this will remain a fact or be a myth?

Now talking about Honda, I still stand by the fact that no one knows how to make petrol engines as good as Honda. Their engines have the maximum power, be it any segment they compete in, FE always remain best in class and then the Honda name itself leaves no other doubt in the mind of the potential owners. Further, the company has been kind enough not to make synthetic oil mandatory for all its engines. Kind because even if they do the current owners or the potential owners won’t have much problem.. end of the day in owners language… HONDA HAI YAARR…

But talking about facts, the very difference between the prices of synthetic oil and mineral oil is around 3000 rupees plus (in civic which has oil capacity of 3.7Litres, mineral oil will cost about 1k and synthetic about 4k). Then in a country like India, it is very difficult to justify to a normal customers, the reasons to use synthetic oil over mineral oil.

Further, Honda despite of routine 5k kms check up, have larger intervals for all filters and oil changes (excluding engine oil and oil filter which is changed at 10k kms as normal).

VW on the other hand have synthetic oil mandatory on all its cars, which even in their common man’s car Polo makes a difference of about 2500 rupees (engine capacity 3L, mineral oil will cost about 6-700 rupees and Synthetic about 3100). To add to it, all the filters including, oil, air, fuel and ac and all other consumables including coolant and brake oil will also be changed at 15k kms. The transmission oil though will be changed at 60k kms depending on the condition. This along with wheel alignment and balancing will cost about Rupees 8k+.

Considering at least rupees 1K more for vento, we are now talking 9k+ for one service every 15k kms.

The competition to the Vento, the Honda City, which in the month of September witnessed highest sales ever of whopping 6k+, will have service cost less than civic, so we are talking about rupees 4k every 10kms (includes 5k routine checkup). Adding to it, better FE, more power, more refined engine, and probably better resale compared to the Vento (still to be judged), the Honda city proves itself better than the competition.

Another most important part, which has been the core competency of all Japanese cars, the Reliability. Niggling issues with power window and rear drums have already been reported in Polo, something which we normally don’t hear about the Japs. 12 year down the line, we still see people buy old citys and lancers with a trust that there is still some more in the car, some more which is worth every penny you spend, some more which even makes a 3rd or the 4th owner say.. MAAN the Japs make the most reliable cars in the world. The Germans on the other hand do make most fun to drive and safe cars but somehow, todays complex and completely electrical cars have put questions on the reliability of the cars they make.

Lastly, all the Honda showrooms I have been to, I have got a 5 star treatment, they are very friendly, helps the customer in every what terms to know the vehicle and more importantly, I didn’t see any of the sales person bashing cars of the competition. However, I have only visited west delhi showroom of VW and the people wont really invite you to see the car. You have to ask for each and every thing and they take ages to reply. The sales people always go gaga about their products, which of course are world class, but then so are the products of the competition. They can go up a limit of telling the customer that a 1.2 Polo can touch 210+ and is way better than competition just because it’s a VW.

The only thing that’s common is the service people, at both the companies, service advisors come up with the most hilarious excuses for any problem you tell them about. For example, when I asked the service advisor at Honda to change the center console (armrest) at the first service as the lock was broken when the car was delivered, he actually said that the lock comes like this, and its for the customers convenience. I had to show him the arm rest of another car and ask the sales person who sold us the car to do the need full. Of course, they did the needful. Similarly, when I ask the service advisor of VW for the Power window problem of Polo, he said its when the door panel is opened for installing the speaker wires, some power window wire gets loose. Now, firstly, wires for basic music system including speakers comes installed from factory in Polo. Secondly, I have not even installed speakers in the front door. Knowing this the service advisor said “acha aapki gaadi me aage speaker nahi hai, phir to awaz hi nahi ati hogi” (ok, you don’t have speakers installed in you cars front door, the music must not be audible). And I was like, tell me about the power window.

Although, I have no doubts on the capabilities of VW to compete with the likes of Honda, they must pull up their socks and take care of the service both in monetary and customer satisfaction terms. Not so good reliability along with expensive service makes it a deadly combination which in the past has worked against Skoda, Ford and Chevy.

EDIT: just for oil top up, the service center took more than one hour, for the initial 20 mins, all the mechanics were on tea break and then some VW officials came in to keep them busy.

[adimicra]

This is a WOW post and the kind of stuff what makes TBHP special.
Very very insightful. I remember GTO saying in some place that 15K service interval is not suited to our conditions and its better to change the oil very 7-8K kms.
I checked my car's manual and you are right. it says - fuel filter to be replaced at 80000 kms and engine coolant at 200000 kms.

Thanks again for the wonderful post.
I have a question regarding the FE with a spirited driving style

[gaurav_chopra04]

Please find my replies in bold.

Originally Posted by adimicra

This is a WOW post and the kind of stuff what makes TBHP special.

Thanks Mate . I thought sharing such information could be of help to the members.

I remember GTO saying in some place that 15K service interval is not suited to our conditions and its better to change the oil very 7-8K kms.

Ya I too think 10k Service is better for the conditions we have. Also more than the just engine oil change, its the life of the consumables that matters more. 15k kms looks like a joke to replace all consumables (excluding transmission oil)

I checked my car's manual and you are right. it says - fuel filter to be replaced at 80000 kms and engine coolant at 200000 kms.

Absolutely, I am sure life of consumables must be similar for Honda city. I remember the first time I went to see Jazz just after it was launched, the company had big tags on the car stating the same.

I have a question regarding the FE with a spirited driving style

With spirited driving, Polo gives around 8-9k kms, but that hard core 5k rpm plus driving. hehe.

[motorhead5]

@Gaurav, Thanks for posting the url in Vento thread. This one is very informative.

I am seriously considering Vento and, as expected, maintenance seems costly. But glad to see that your after sales experience had been good so far, which again is a concern.

But, with 15k km service internal, wouldn't it be comparable to Honda city?. At least near?. Hope the warranty will take care of other reliability issues at least for first 2 years.

Surprised to see that you got 5 star treatment at Hondas always. I felt the other way mostly..

Thanks again.

[gaurav_chopra04]

"A new car is a new car..."

"Never buy a flop car..."

Well, if you are thinking that I have gone crazy after a small sunday evening booz, then you are wrong. All my sunday evening plans went for a toss after my brother called me up at 9 to tell me that the engine check light is appearing in our 6 months old 10k driven polo. Did someone say "Germany engineering".

The above comments were what I got when I was to buy a pre-owned Mitsubishi Cedia. A Reliable Japanese car that can compete with any German in the segment. A car that changes meaning of performance for you and still maintains the JAPANESE reliability. A 3 year old car with 58k kms on the clock and still strong.

For those who believe in new car (even my dad does, so no offence to anyone), here I am with a six months old BRAND NEW CAR with 10k kms on the clock and I see engine check light on the display, fantastic. I know it can be as small as a sensor going kaput or even a small code or..I feel afraid writing this.. you know german reliability. It may be a niggling issue or a major issue (will see tomorrow), but the trust in German cars is certainly going for a toss, making me wonder if a basic German car can have such issues, whats it gonna be with the elder ones, the Beamers, Audis, Mercs and other VWs. Come on, dont we all dream of having one!


Well, the purchasing manager of VW India was going on and on about how their QC is better that the industry standards and the indian suppliers had a tough time getting selected by VW, at a conference I attended last year. Is this the QC, he was talking about and if it is, then I dont have words. The TATA indica, we had ONE UPON A TIME, may have had regular TATA niggles, but it never displayed engine check light for god sake!

Come on VW, one of the biggest auto car manufacturer in the world, and you still cant make niggle free cars. Makes me wonder what ROCKET SCIENCE are they using..well,if at all they are?

I am a bit too busy these days but I believe I will have to spare time tomorrow morning to go to VW service station to get the car checked. Will, keep you guys posted.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

"A new car is a new car..."

"Never buy a flop car..."

Well, if you are thinking that I have gone crazy after a small sunday evening booz, then you are wrong. All my sunday evening plans went for a toss after my brother called me up at 9 to tell me that the engine check light is appearing in our 6 months old 10k driven polo. Did someone say "Germany engineering".

The above comments were what I got when I was to buy a pre-owned Mitsubishi Cedia. A Reliable Japanese car that can compete with any German in the segment. A car that changes meaning of performance for you and still maintains the JAPANESE reliability. A 3 year old car with 58k kms on the clock and still strong.

For those who believe in new car (even my dad does, so no offence to anyone), here I am with a six months old BRAND NEW CAR with 10k kms on the clock and I see engine check light on the display, fantastic. I know it can be as small as a sensor going kaput or even a small code or..I feel afraid writing this.. you know german reliability. It may be a niggling issue or a major issue (will see tomorrow), but the trust in German cars is certainly going for a toss, making me wonder if a basic German car can have such issues, whats it gonna be with the elder ones, the Beamers, Audis, Mercs and other VWs. Come on, dont we all dream of having one!


Well, the purchasing manager of VW India was going on and on about how their QC is better that the industry standards and the indian suppliers had a tough time getting selected by VW, at a conference I attended last year. Is this the QC, he was talking about and if it is, then I dont have words. The TATA indica, we had ONE UPON A TIME, may have had regular TATA niggles, but it never displayed engine check light for god sake!

Come on VW, one of the biggest auto car manufacturer in the world, and you still cant make niggle free cars. Makes me wonder what ROCKET SCIENCE are they using..well,if at all they are?

I am a bit too busy these days but I believe I will have to spare time tomorrow morning to go to VW service station to get the car checked. Will, keep you guys posted.

Hey Gaurav, sad to know about this.
I had always the dream of owning a German car when I upgrade next but my dreams are evaporating thick and fast with the several posts I see in this forum about the reliability of German cars in general.
About Polo, the car is in the market for not even a year and we had seen quite a few issues reported in this forum - some major and some minor. But one thing for sure, the peace of mind and the fill-it-shut-it attitude that comes with Japanese or even Korean cars is definitely missing in VW and German cars in general.
I see people going hyper over Tata or Fiat cars when they have niggling issues but frankly, those issues are mostly not as serious as turbo going kaput or something wrong with the engine. Frankly, if you talk about reliability/quality, I do not know why VW would score over Tata or Fiat. Add to this the wafer thin service network and the not-so-good sales experience of most buyers, it does not augur well for a hassle-free and peaceful ownership experience.
Would wait for your update and hope it is a minor issue.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

Did someone say "Germany engineering".

*ahem* : Link to thread

The above comments were what I got when I was to buy a pre-owned Mitsubishi Cedia. A Reliable Japanese car that can compete with any German in the segment. A car that changes meaning of performance for you and still maintains the JAPANESE reliability. A 3 year old car with 58k kms on the clock and still strong.

For those who believe in new car (even my dad does, so no offence to anyone), here I am with a six months old BRAND NEW CAR with 10k kms on the clock and I see engine check light on the display, fantastic. I know it can be as small as a sensor going kaput or even a small code or..I feel afraid writing this.. you know german reliability. It may be a niggling issue or a major issue (will see tomorrow), but the trust in German cars is certainly going for a toss, making me wonder if a basic German car can have such issues, whats it gonna be with the elder ones, the Beamers, Audis, Mercs and other VWs. Come on, dont we all dream of having one!

I felt exactly the same way when my used '03 OHC Vtec needed just one, annual visit for scheduled maintenance...and the '05 Merc was / is a frequent visitor to the workshop.

Come on VW, one of the biggest auto car manufacturer in the world, and you still cant make niggle free cars. Makes me wonder what ROCKET SCIENCE are they using..well,if at all they are?

Touché. Building reliable cars isn't really rocket science. Even a humble Maruti 800 can go on for 100,000 kms without a breakdown.

I hope it's not a big deal. Do update us once you hear from the VW workshop.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Would wait for your update and hope it is a minor issue.

Originally Posted by GTO

I hope it's not a big deal. Do update us once you hear from the VW workshop.

Guys, it was a minor issue, an engine malfunction code which has been reset.

I got ready at 9 in the morning to leave for the service station which opens at 9:30 in the morning and got into the car. After, I started the car, there were two lights on the display, first was the engine check light and the second was the Fuel light. The service station in about 8 kms from my place so I thought I fill fuel on my way. I filled up fuel at a fuel station and as soon as I started the car, both fuel light and engine check light disappeared.

I was a bit surprised, since when does a fuel light has anything to do with engine check light. turned off the car a couple of times and started again but the light never came back. Only thing I could guess was code in the ECU, I thought it could possibly be a a conflict between two programs, like we sometimes have in computer.

Since, the service station was about 3 kms away, I went to get the car checked, thought an ECU check up should give some clue.

I reached the service station sharp at 9:30 and they were opening the shutter. Great, I am the first one, I thought, so it shouldnt take long if its some minor issue, if not I ll leave the car and go. I looked for service advisors but no one was there. Some one guided me to a junior service guy and I explained him the stuff and heres the conversation.

me: Explained the problem and how engine light vanished as soon as I filled fuel.

Advisor: EPC ki light hogi, kai baar back pressure maar jata hai (must be epc light, it does back pressure some times"

Me: No, it was the ENGINE check light, the yellow one.

Advisor: Ab nahi aa rahi to chalne do (if it isnt appearing now, then let it be)

Me: check to kar lo, jab sadak pe khadi ho jaigi tab karoge (atleast check it, or do you plan to check it only if it ll beakdown on the middle of the road)

Advisor: Kuch hai hi nahi (there is nothing)

Me: ECU diagnose machine ke saath jack kar ke codes to check kar sakte ho, ye bhi main batau. (atleast you can jack up the ECU to the diagnose machine and check for codes, you want me to tell you all this.)

Advisor: abhi senior advisor aane wale hai, wo job card kholenge, tab gaadi andar aayegi. (The senior advisors are about to come, once they open the job card, only then can the car come in).

ME: main pichli baari bhi sirf engine oil top up ke liye 1 ghanta khada hua tha, is baar please jaldi karao (I waited for an hour last time for engine oil top up, please make it quick this time.)

Advisor: sir workshop 10 baje hi khulti hai (Sir, the workshop opens at 10.)

ME: pointing at the board which mentions the workshops timings (it was 9:30)

Advisor: no replies.

Waited for another 15 minutes before the advisor who I met the last few times came in. He's a much better guy but not very fast. I told him the
problem and he said he will get the ECU checked. He finally opened the job card at 10:20 and my car went in. I waited in the customer lounge and at about 11:00, I was told that there was a engine malfunction code in the ECU and it has been reset and has not come back. It took them half an hour to get the the papers ready and I signed them got the car back at 11:30. Damn, 2 hours for a 5 mins job.

I asked where is the customer feedback column on the job card and was told to write comments on a paper (not jobcard) which had the car's other details and that was also signed my me.

I wrote down that this was the third time I was visiting the workshop in last 4 months, 1st for power window problem at 6k kms, then engine oil top up at 8k kms and then the ECU code at 10k kms. If you claim to be the only company to have largest service interval of 15k/1 year, then why am I to visit you every other month.

Also, each time I have visited the service station, it has taken couple of hours for a few minutes job. You should value your customer's time and be as quick as possible. If it takes 2 hours right now for such simple jobs, whats it going to be as the number of VWs increases on the road.

I would appreciate if necessary actions are taken to satisfy customers.

Originally Posted by adimicra

I had always the dream of owning a German car when I upgrade next but my dreams are evaporating thick and fast with the several posts I see in this forum about the reliability of German cars in general.

Will have to rethink about the same, I too plan to upgrade to a German car in few years, though its a bit too early to say, but reliability is something I'd be worried about, considering I buy pre-owned.

About Polo, the car is in the market for not even a year and we had seen quite a few issues reported in this forum - some major and some minor. But one thing for sure, the peace of mind and the fill-it-shut-it attitude that comes with Japanese or even Korean cars is definitely missing in VW and German cars in general.

Having owned japanese cars for years now, I can vouch that nothing comes close to japanese reliability. IF you want both performance and reliability, a pimped Honda civic or a Mitsubishi lancer (cedia), are the only cars that can satisfy both your conditions.

I see people going hyper over Tata or Fiat cars when they have niggling issues but frankly, those issues are mostly not as serious as turbo going kaput or something wrong with the engine. Frankly, if you talk about reliability/quality, I do not know why VW would score over Tata or Fiat.

TATA-FIAT have their own set of problems, where niggling issues in tata takes your breath away, A.S.S is something that goes against FIAT. Moreso, most of the people still relate FIAT to the old Padminis (PAL), which wasnt really the FIAT. Also, the FIAT has disappointed premium customers of Palio in the early 2000 (palio certainly was premium at that time), so those customers certainly wont buy a FIAT again.


VW, certainly have snob at this point in time and if then want to maintain it, they will need to value their customers (see why Suzuki and Hyundai, top charts in customer satisfaction).

Originally Posted by GTO

*ahem* : Link to thread

I have been following this for quite some time, every time I see the new 5, I think.. just a few years man.. and then when I see this thread, I think, why dont we get the lexus here, so I can have both performance (to an extent), comfort and snob value. I mean, only 2 years of AMC left on about 3 year old Beamer, and then I am to drive it for atleast 5-7 years...lolzz.


I felt exactly the same way when my used '03 OHC Vtec needed just one, annual visit for scheduled maintenance...and the '05 Merc was / is a frequent visitor to the workshop.

Certainly, there something about the JAPS, they just dont give up. I read a joke somewhere about the japs, the americans ordered 1000 mahines from Japan and the condition was that only 10 kaput machines could be acceptable for every 1000 machines. So the Jaapanese delivered 1010 machines, of which 1000 were in perfect working conditions and 10 were kaput, stating that you asked for 1000 working and 10 kaput machines.

Touché. Building reliable cars isn't really rocket science.

Wonder why no one apart from Japs cant figure it out.

Even a humble Maruti 800 can go on for 100,000 kms without a breakdown.

I can vouch for that, our 1.65 lac done 5 speed 800 is still going very strong, we just dont feel like parting away from it.