[Rajith]

Hi,
I have given my THAR CRDe to ASC for reloading the data set as explained in this thread.
Awaiting the results..

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by manasm

Mr Behram, I am sorry to say that I am very sad reading your posts. After reading about your work on the Thar and buying one, there has been no positive help from you to any questions. I am not sure why, but your answer to problems people have with the vehicle is basically to say how you have never had the problem in all your testing....

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - I never had such an issue in MH01V521 in rigorous test mode, which included running of 1000 kms/day @ 140+ kmph, mixed surface durability @ 600 kms/day, I can't tell you the total distance covered but believe you me, it was was mind boggling. Our six test vehicles, which include MH01V521 have all gone through hell and come back!............

I wonder what has changed. Logic says it's the fuel maps!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Manasm, what I read here is that Behram is telling you that he tested the bee-jeebers out of this vehicle and never had this problem. This is a serious problem in that it could lead to carbon monoxide poisoning. No auto manufacturer wants to release a vehicle that does this if only to avoid litigation. I think Behram's telling you about the testing that went on was more an expression of concern about this problem than a denial of its existence. And, if you read on, at the end of his post he tries to make an educated guess as to what the problem is likely to be. His intention here is clearly to give...some positive help.

That's the way I see it. Furthermore, if you read a large number of his posts you will see he takes the time and takes great pains in many posts to give detailed information on solving jeep and auto-related problems. This is unusual for a man in high position and shows a real passion for his work and shows his real concern to help poor little twinks like us. I think you are being a little rough on B.D.

[manasm]

Dan,

This is going to be a long and rambling one...sorry! I have tried to italicize and bold to break the monotony of text wherever possible! But other than that it is just a rant! So, feel free to ignore if you want.

I understand your post - though I have to say I don't understand or accept Behram's. I know I will get flamed for that last remark!
But, I am not just referring to his last post - its about all the posts in all the threads about the Thar...ownership and otherwise!

Clever statements do not a man make!
Get to the point...don't try to be clever and self applauding when you do something! If you can't comment then don't! Just be honest and true to yourself and say you are not free to comment due to whatever the reason which in Behram's case we can call "the situation"!

I have met and spoken to others (both involved in the Thar project and those who have not) who were a lot more helpful solving problems with jeeps, Thars and other vehicles than he was! Soliloquies are great but only when they actually solve or address something!

With his following here, I may be banned from this forum, but if that's the way it goes, then so be it! Just speaking my mind and those of multiple others in this forum.

If the Thar was an actual finished product, it would have been a real killer!!!!! (I understand the team-bhp mods don't like so many exclamations but I see the potential of the vehicle). I know people would blame corporates and have a thousand reasons, but if things don't happen then don't blow your trumpet about a prototype which has never seen the light of day. It was only a prototype because it didn't work right (whether due to financial, engineering or whatever other constraints). Being an owner of a multi-crore manufacturing company where we have made a thousand prototypes and discarded 999, I know this much at least!

I know many others from outside of tbhp who have personally interacted with him and not one person had anything to say other than "he likes to talk about himself". I may be a nonsensical person when it comes to vehicles, but anyone I have met personally (and I have met quite a few people on this forum) and off this forum - with their remarks will support me when I say I am open to criticism and am learning but always have an open mind. It just seems to me from reading all of Mr. Behram's responses that he thinks he is god's gift to whatever without much justification in the real world (mostly through his self-aggrandizing).

Again, thank god for other owners and enthusiasts on this forum! And the time and love they have for other owners. Even if they had something bad to say, constructive is always the way to go. About my hard top...well I really learnt from people like rajeev k, SPIKE ARRESTOR, figo_mba, MileCruncher, vnambiar and others who have had something to say on how to improve other than "it sucks", "improve it" etc..

The amount of time Rajith, Vijay and Swamy, Spike and Shekar have spent with me teaching and advising has made my vehicle a lot better than it was. And I am not saying they had anything bad to say about Behram - but then again I am not not saying anything!

To all those potential owners who think it is 7.6L (or thereabouts) on road, think again. Ask any Thar owner and they will tell you it is a sub-standard product no matter what the company or their "brand ambassadors" say!

Mr Behram - not one person I have interacted with - on this forum (or off it for that matter) has said you have helped with anything! So not sure who you are referring to as your "brand ambassadors". Would appreciate if they put in a comment on this thread or my ownership thread or any Thar thread! If you put your name behind a product, make sure it is one that you can really stand behind - not just your prototype, but any one that comes off the line

Trust me - I am not a horrible person saying all this! Just a really frustrated one!

Am done with this topic! I just felt it had to be said after speaking to a lot of Thar owners and sharing miseries with them about Behram's (sir?)'s lackluster responses! I know I am venting, but I know I am representing what a lot of members feel!

Regards,
Manas

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Manasm, what I read here is that Behram is telling you that he tested the bee-jeebers out of this vehicle and never had this problem. This is a serious problem in that it could lead to carbon monoxide poisoning. No auto manufacturer wants to release a vehicle that does this if only to avoid litigation. I think Behram's telling you about the testing that went on was more an expression of concern about this problem than a denial of its existence. And, if you read on, at the end of his post he tries to make an educated guess as to what the problem is likely to be. His intention here is clearly to give...some positive help.

That's the way I see it. Furthermore, if you read a large number of his posts you will see he takes the time and takes great pains in many posts to give detailed information on solving jeep and auto-related problems. This is unusual for a man in high position and shows a real passion for his work and shows his real concern to help poor little twinks like us. I think you are being a little rough on B.D.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

[/b][/u]That's the way I see it. Furthermore, if you read a large number of his posts you will see he takes the time and takes great pains in many posts to give detailed information on solving jeep and auto-related problems. This is unusual for a man in high position and shows a real passion for his work and shows his real concern to help poor little twinks like us. I think you are being a little rough on B.D.

100% TRUE he does it regardless of his position --- havent seen any person of 'his' position being so open . we are taking him for granted

Originally Posted by manasm

With his following here, I may be banned from this forum, but if that's the way it goes, then so be it! Just speaking my mind and those of multiple others in this forum.

I can understand your anguish , but no need to go this far --- Are we thinking he should solve every problem asked ? why should he ?

I know many others from outside of tbhp who have personally interacted with him and not one person had anything to say other than "he likes to talk about himself".

WRONG I have spent sufficient time with him & I dont /didnt see anything like you say

You need to ask a perfect question to him , then he takes it personally as a challenge & answers it -- that's my personal experience

[b]Mr Behram - not one person I have interacted with - on this forum (or off it for that matter) has said you have helped with anything!

Not True Though you have not interacted with me ,but I have some very different experience -- he helps out of the way .

Trust me - I am not a horrible person saying all this! Just a really frustrated one!

That I can Understand , but I think you have gone a little too far , I think we are taking him for granted to sort every query of us regardless of his busy schedule or his occupation

Sudarshan

Disclaimer --I am Not a DB fan

[gthang]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all I can't tell you the total distance covered but believe you me, it was was mind boggling.

I wonder what has changed. Logic says it's the fuel maps!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

What's the point in running even 10 kilometers on a prototype vehicle that is not running on intended production fuel maps? Other than having a jolly good time?

Before I am bombarded with replies about all other vehicle parameters, please note that this was in reply to a fuel map issue.

Cheers

P.S. I hope rants are allowed to exist just as praises are.

[Rajith]

Guys,

One thing i would like to say and warn the current THAR CRDe owners and potential buyers is that this exhaust smell is just unbearable. Was trying to reload the data set code num 9XXX yesterday, which got corrupted in the middle and vehicle is not starting now.Will reload a new set today.

With THAR CRDe im a regular visitor to ASC now , i m lucky that ASC is only 2kms away from my office and all guys there knows me now.

With my SCORPIO driven @ 20000kms , i may have visited ASC hardly 5 or 7 times in last 6-9 months.With my MAJOR driven @ 15000kms , i may have visited ASC hardly 4-5 times in 12 months.
With my THAR CRDe driven about 5000kms i have visited ASC more than 30 times in last 2-3 months..

[nitin.rai]

Originally Posted by manasm

If the Thar was an actual finished product, it would have been a real killer!!!!!

Manas,
I can understand your frustration and do empathize; hope the problems are sorted out soon.

As far as the THAR goes it definitely IS NOT a FINISHED PRODUCT! And the vehicle and the people around it definitely do not need all the patronizing around it.
Just that as a market we are yet to see competition and maturity so anything that's cheap sells; irrespective of the fact wether there are fumes in the cabin (no class action law suits here so manufacturers have a field day) or the seat is offset or the plastic parts seem saw cut or the body has rust / unplugged drain holes! Just a few examples!

Will I go and buy a Thar? Yes because I do not have any other alternative. Having said that it is an UNFINISHED product and doesn't need so much applaud!

PS: I have started reading Thar threads and am surprised at the number of problems faced by owners. I still may go ahead and buy one BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE.
Neither have I interacted with people associated to the Thar or owners in person but I do notice a lot of cacophony over prototypes which I never saw. Mods please excuse this but prototypes be damned and the hoopla around them if at the end of the day I am getting to buy a raw product. Period.

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by Rajith

With THAR CRDe im a regular visitor to ASC now , i m lucky that ASC is only 2kms away from my office and all guys there knows me now.

With my SCORPIO driven @ 20000kms , i may have visited ASC hardly 5 or 7 times in last 6-9 months.With my MAJOR driven @ 15000kms , i may have visited ASC hardly 4-5 times in 12 months.
With my THAR CRDe driven about 5000kms i have visited ASC more than 30 times in last 2-3 months..

Hi Rajith,

For a "supposedly" "Reliable" vehicle; I thought getting intimate with the mechanics was the last resort of Ex-OLD-Junk HEAP owners .

It's not the vehicles fault, its you JEEPer mindset which is continuously finding flaws with a perfect product "accepted" "internationally".

Regards,

Arka

[R32_GTR]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Carrot Eater - the root cause needs to be identified and eliminated. For doing that, the first thing is that people "who matter", (not necessarily people who "understand"), need to agree that there is an "issue", for which there is a "root cause". If at all this is achieved, then something great is achieved. Then comes the question of doing the "correct thing" or "something", also "which agency" should do it. If it is only "something" which is done by "some agency", even if parts come to the dealership from God, vehicle "issues" cannot get resolved. Then, the whole cycle starts all over again. By the time things come to a head because you guys make a lot of noise about it, people "who matter" have usually got promoted or transferred so it does not make any difference to them at all. And as a customer who has paid money to buy the product, are you satisfied with what's done? Charts and fancy presentations are flaunted by people "who matter" to the "biggest people who matter", to prove that "AAL IZZ WELL".

MAY GOD HELP CUSTOMERS!

You sound like a different person chief!!

If one has to hope and pray that their issues get resolved (So GOD CAN HELP THEM!!), who in the right mind would still want to buy a half baked product???

The gypsy seems like such a dream allover again..

@CarrotEater... I suggest you start your day with a few Hail Mary's and/or Gayatri Mantra's before getting into your Thar

I would think a few times before getting into the gas chamber with my kid.

GOD BLESS!

P.S. Its very disheartening to see people who swore by the Thar having a new perspective towards the Thar..

[Rajith]

Gas chamber seems to be a right name now , here only GOD can help.

@ Arka plz explain "It's not the vehicles fault, its you JEEPer mindset which is continuously finding flaws with a perfect product "accepted" "internationally".

[manasm]

I have also been a regular to the ASC with my Thar. It is about 2km from my office as well and every time I go, I see Rajith there!

From me at least the chai shop round the corner has been doing great business!

But this thread is about the exhaust fumes. It is my fault for going off topic - I know! Lets get back to it and see how we can help each other out solving this potentially health hazarding problem.

I have not had this problem more than on two occasions, but that could also be because I have a hard top on. Not sure!

Eagerly waiting for Rajith's feedback once the data set is reloaded.

P.S. - I do enjoy driving the Thar around. The problem is just that one by one everything is either failing or falling apart!

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Dear BD,

I think it is unfair to compare the examm and akc vehicle to the production ones since you yourself told me all the mods that were done to the vehicle and how it was completely different from the production one.

Genuine Question:
How does a changed data map give rise to exhaust fumes in the cabin?

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by Rajith

@ Arka plz explain "It's not the vehicles fault, its you JEEPer mindset which is continuously finding flaws with a perfect product "accepted" "internationally".

Hi Rajith,

Most JEEPers have not experienced the marvels of modern scientific engineering, at best they do patch work and Fix-It-Again-Later solutions on N-th Hand vehicles, which are decades old.

The JEEPer mindset of continuously trying to improve the vehicle or make a cost effective solution is called "Jugaad" when we don't have "real" problems in perfect product "accepted", "internationally" we create imaginary problems and try to solve them, and this becomes a vicious cycle.

M&M Idea of R&D = Customers' Research & Mahindra's Development.

Regards,

Arka

[vnambiar]

I was regular at India garage richmond road ASC. Now i ask them to send the driver for pickup and drop!

Can i know how fuel map issue leads to smell, any clues to work upon

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Genuine Question:
How does a changed data map give rise to exhaust fumes in the cabin?

Originally Posted by vnambiar

Can i know how fuel map issue leads to smell, any clues to work upon

Hi Guys,

I'm guessing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

1) the Old data set/fuel map causes some unburnt fuel/Gasses at particular RPM (RPM Range)

2) These gasses are supposed to be "cleaned" by the Catalytic Converter and vented out through the exhaust at a particular speed. (flow rate)

3) But since this occurs frequently the Cat-Con gets clogged the offending fumes/gasses cannot pass through the cat-con fast enough ; this causes further build up of fumes/gases, since the exhaust is not working fast enough and leak through the flexible silencer pipe.

While this happens/if this happens will the vehicle qualify as BS4?

Regards,

Arka