[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hello Sir, You missed the elementary bit about Lines and their connections, because not all XD3P water pumps have 2 Additional Out Lets. So if the only one is tapped/connected for the Oil Cooler, how do we connect the Degassing Tank. Regards, Arka

Dear Arka - I did not miss anything. I just said that adding a degassing tank does not disturb oil cooler plumbing in any way. Connect the degassing tank to radiator filler pipe by using the Indica adaptor as Fazal has done and bleed as I have indicated below. then, nothing changes in the area that you have mentioned, so your question becomes a non-issue.

Dear Fazal - if you seal the pressure cap faultlessly, make a hole in it and use it as a bleed to the degassing tank, it will work. It will also be the topmost point of the cooling system. That's the technical part, but it will not be a perfect job. My teacher Mr.Anil Patel had told me in 1977 (one of the best years of my life), that "whatever you do, do a perfect job or else don't do". Therefore, if ABD9294 was my Jeep, I would not use this methodology. You cannot get a new tool made for the top tank for one car, therefore, you must actually seal the hole by using a plastic disc made out of same material, use a sealant which will withstand the rigors of radiator operation like temperature, pressure, oil contamination, dust ingress, salt etc, then develop a bleed and use it. That's why I had told you to go back to the brass radiator because in that case it is very easy. A brass disc cut from a scrapped rasiator will seal the big hole and a Solex carburettor fuel inlet union brazed to the top of the vertical face of the radiator top tank facing the engine provides the perfect solution. YOUR CALL SIR!

Dear Vikram - XDP4.90 can handle an airconditioner, provided the system is properly designed, developed and equipped. Unfortunately, this does not happen in the real world, we know how garages work. The degassing tank automatically adds coolant volume so it is better from that standpoint. Most of today's passenger car radiators do not have filler provision because they use the degassing tank approach. Generally, European design philosophy is to go with the degassing tank whereas Japanese design philosophy is to go with the surge tank. I have never understood the reason why this is so. If I were you, I would move on, leaving the XDP4.90 engine and its "memoirs" behind me as a sort of "lessons learnt, thank you very much" approach. Times have changed, My Dear Sir!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil;2540969
[I

If I manage to seal the same radiator pressure cap, faultlessly, make a hole on the top and attach a metal nozzle and connect it to the degassing tank with a flexible pipe, will it work?[/i] It will also be the top most part on the radiator, right?
Thanks and Regards,

Is it really worth it Fazal saab? An engine designed to work well with a normal pressurized radiator will work without any of these mods on a modern bigger radiator with coolant surge system. Right?

Why butcher a good plastic radiator?

[headers]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Generally, European design philosophy is to go with the degassing tank whereas Japanese design philosophy is to go with the surge tank. I have never understood the reason why this is so. If I were you, I would move on, leaving the XDP4.90 engine and its "memoirs" behind me as a sort of "lessons learnt, thank you very much" approach. Times have changed, My Dear Sir!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Sir, Thanks so much - I'm STUCK because I just love the MM540 Shape

Now, the call for me is to plonk in the ISUZU G1 or move on and buy a THAR!!

The core area troubling me is HT and AC and the THAR does not have it at this moment in time as OE, hence the dilemma.

OT: OT: OT:

IF I manage to plonk in the Isuzu G1 in the MM540 - What are the areas I should be careful in? I need 4x4, AC, HT.

Or how is the TATA XENON 4x4?

[fazalaliadil]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Fazal therefore, you must actually seal the hole by using a plastic disc made out of same material, use a sealant which will withstand the rigors of radiator operation like temperature, pressure, oil contamination, dust ingress, salt etc, then develop a bleed and use it

Dear Sir,

Point understood, will do it with a machined teflon disc. Thank you again.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Is it really worth it Fazal saab? An engine designed to work well with a normal pressurized radiator will work without any of these mods on a modern bigger radiator with coolant surge system. Right?

Why butcher a good plastic radiator?

Dear Jaggu,

I will not butcher the plastics, but use the same pressure cap provision (explained by Sir Behram) the drawing below should explain.

The reason for this 'Jugad' is that I have a smaller radiator as a bigger one wouldn't fit. The extra degassing tank is for holding the extra circulating, liquid required for a 2500cc engine. The effort is not much and its worth it, to attain a lower engine temp.

BTW, Congrats on the ownership of 'Spidey' and also to Vijay for the 'Drawf', now whose Jeep is Shahnawaz going for?
Regards,

[headers]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Dear Sir,

Point understood, will do it with a machined teflon disc. Thank you again.

Why not weld the teflon onto the plastic top of the radiator?
...

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

BTW, Congrats on the ownership of 'Spidey' and also to Vijay for the 'Drawf', now whose Jeep is Shahnawaz going for?
Regards,

Attachment 825911

WHAT - did i hear / see / read right? Jaggu and Spidey? Spidey Sold? our hero KS without a 4x4? What has the world come to?

[shekaran]

Dear Mr.Dhabhar Behram,

i have some simple questions so would be highly appreciated if you give simple answers -

1. in an XDP4.90 engine, what are all the basic procedures to be followed for adding an aircon ?
1.a. sanden 307 compressor + Unicla superking/national blower combo - best suited or any other better combination ? (taking into consideration of xdp4.90 engine parameters)
1.b. will adding the a/c condenser with a electric fan enough ? will this condenser placement before OE radiator make any cooling problems, bcoz of restricted airflow ? if yes, what to do - to avoid overheating ?
1.c. will adding an additional fan in between the radiator and condenser be advisable ? also what should be the space/width between the radiator and condenser ?

2. will adding degassing tank in the OE radiator of xdp4.90 make any big difference ?
2.a. if yes, what degassing tank best suits the plan ? also can you pls give a simple drawing of the inlet/outlet points, various connections involved ?
2.b. if no big difference, can we use the tata toyo aluminium radiator (like fazal saab), with a surge tank ?

3. off topic, but you are the person who can answer this question - what is the lowest diff ratio that the xdp4.90 can handle ?
3.a. OE diff ratio is 4.88 - but NVH at cruising speeds @ 70-80kmph are intolerable - arka had advised earbuds as solution, but still i need technical possibilities.
3.b. can we use 3.73 diff ratio of the bolero ? if yes, with or without the carrier plate ?
3.c. can we have the power/torque vs engine rpm graphs of the xdp4.90, xd3p engines ?

Best Regards. Expecting a surprise bigger than THAR from you, asap...pls dont make us wait like the THAR release...
Cheers.

[headers]

@Shekaran: Time to move on sir - Dump the 2.1 engine in Bay of bengal if you want AC - Thats the feedback / impression I get after researching for almost a year!

You try 4.27 and all starts WILL HAVE TO BE FIRST GEAR!! 3.73 is a no no IMO

[fazalaliadil]

Originally Posted by headers

Why not weld the teflon onto the plastic top of the radiator?

WHAT - did i hear / see / read right? Jaggu and Spidey? Spidey Sold? our hero KS without a 4x4? What has the world come to?

Vikram,

The plastic top tank of the radiator.......hmmmm. Still don't you feel the dummy I plan to make to replace the radiator cap will be a more solid than the thinner plastic body of the top tank?

The Bangy boys are playing Russian Roulette.
Regards,

[fazalaliadil]

Originally Posted by headers

@Shekaran: Time to move on sir - Dump the 2.1 engine in Bay of bengal if you want AC

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM;2541770
[B

Dear Vikram[/b] If I were you, I would move on, leaving the XDP4.90 engine and its "memoirs" behind me as a sort of "lessons learnt, thank you very much" approach. Times have changed, My Dear Sir!

Vikram,

Never seen advice being followed this fast.

[shekaran]

Dear Headers Vikram,
my a/c mech suggests a/c with a rebuilt xdp4.90 itself. the a/c mech name is anand @ no.1,shenoy road, nungambakkam 9385550555 - he also suggests top a/c as we both have HT - like tempo travellers - want to try ?
acc to anand, top a/c will not make any radiator overheating problems, only engine pickup a little less, but not too big to notice - you can discuss with him, as he does a/c jobs for all bigshots in cine/politics in chennai.
thanks for the dumping advice, but even xd3p with a/c hits 100(temp), have seen it personally in some jeeps - so whats the solution ? pls share your research, so beepers like me can be benefitted.

best regards, cheers.

Dear Fazal Saab,
Advices are free - easily given, answers are not so...
in tamil, there was one old poet named nakkeeran, who found fault with lord shiva itself.
our headers vikram is like that, i like his attitude very much - asking questions such that even technical persons are flabbergasted.
Vikram, why do you say 3.73 no use in xdp ? why so ? i dont have the graph, so could not calculate the parameters ? if you have the xdp4.90 graphs, pls share it, for all our use.
cheers.

[headers]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Vikram,
The plastic top tank of the radiator.......hmmmm. Still don't you feel the dummy I plan to make to replace the radiator cap will be a more solid than the thinner plastic body of the top tank?

Fazal, the difficult part IMO is tackling the pressure of the radiator, so any sealing should be pressure tested to certify the job.

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Vikram,

Never seen advice being followed this fast.

LOL - Yeah, I have been hoping to put a AC in THAT vehicle until Sirji suggested otherwise. Who else do I have apart from Sirji in all these important / critical decisions in life?

Originally Posted by shekaran

Dear Headers Vikram,
my a/c mech suggests a/c with a rebuilt xdp4.90 itself. the a/c mech name is anand @ no.1,shenoy road, nungambakkam 9385550555 - he also suggests top a/c as we both have HT - like tempo travellers - want to try ?
acc to anand, top a/c will not make any radiator overheating problems, only engine pickup a little less, but not too big to notice - you can discuss with him, as he does a/c jobs for all bigshots in cine/politics in chennai.
thanks for the dumping advice, but even xd3p with a/c hits 100(temp), have seen it personally in some jeeps - so whats the solution ? pls share your research, so beepers like me can be benefitted.

Sir, Pl go ahead with your install iff the AC mech gives a gaurantee for 3 years or 60000 kms.

I am not a BIGSHOT nor related to Cine / Politics sir

[shekaran]

Dear Vikram,
i think you misunderstood me. sorry if i said anything that hurts you. sorry again.
i gave the a/c mech reference so you can discuss with him, as he had done some a/c installs for mm540, mm550, commander with di engine, maruti omni etc.,.
the a/c mech suggested top condenser coil, if we jeepers feel that OE radiator may overheat.(if condenser is placed before the radiator inside front grille). as we have HT, he suggested top location like tempo travellers, since he had done some installs like that in maruti omni also.
i just said that the a/c mech does jobs for all big shots in cine/politics fields, so that you can assess his calibre, also his work perfection. thats it, not intended to pun you, ok.
best regards, cheers.

[headers]

Originally Posted by shekaran

Dear Vikram,
i think you misunderstood me. sorry if i said anything that hurts you. sorry again.
i gave the a/c mech reference so you can discuss with him, as he had done some a/c installs for mm540, mm550, commander with di engine, maruti omni etc.,.
the a/c mech suggested top condenser coil, if we jeepers feel that OE radiator may overheat.(if condenser is placed before the radiator inside front grille). as we have HT, he suggested top location like tempo travellers, since he had done some installs like that in maruti omni also.
i just said that the a/c mech does jobs for all big shots in cine/politics fields, so that you can assess his calibre, also his work perfection. thats it, not intended to pun you, ok.
best regards, cheers.

Hey Shekaran, No issues..

The thing is - Normally, 90% of the mechanics have no clue about what punishment the Jeep undergoes every OTR. The few who have done OTRs understand 50% of the issues.

To build a reliable jeep with AC, HT takes it in a different league which only a few manufacturers in the WORLD have mastered.

An AC mech maybe superb in his installation - no doubts about it - I have seen a few too - But the integration of the installation without negating the properties of the engine is what is needed and this is where the 540 2.1 DP engine have short comings.

Also GURUJI has written a good post answering my direct question indirectly. Hence the confirmation.

Infact, Junior Guruji () has been telling me for long to move on with the vehicle!!

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by headers

To build a reliable jeep with AC, HT takes it in a different league which only a few manufacturers in the WORLD have mastered

Dear Vikram - You have said it all. I guess this explains Thar CRDe AC and HT issue in totality. I have specifically underlined your words of wisdom. I hope it is "read, appreciated, understood and implemented". . Samajhne wale ko ishara kaafi hota hai!

Dear Shekaran - I will need to type a lot of information to answer your question in totality. I just don't have time to do it. I suggest you implement Vikram's suggestion. Please move on, times have changed. On axle ratio, you can go down to 4.27:1 with XDP4.90 / KMT90 combination. I had it in my CL3404WD MH01P8300. I used it for a year and it ran wonderfully, just like a passenger car.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[fazalaliadil]

Some from the western ghats.

Before the launch, a final analysis

One of the toughest of AKC (stitched pic.)

Precarious maneuver, EXAMM.