Subwoofer / Audio enhancements for New Honda Civic...

ST7677 · 25th November 2006, 12:05

Another question:

My OE Rear fills are exposed to the trunk. Will they be able the sustain the pressure generated by the sub?

I doubt, so how is this taken care of?

speedzak · 25th November 2006, 13:29

I don't think it will be a problem. Unless, you're making a very big SPL setup.
Rear fills will be fine in the OE locations.
The sub should be kept firing more towards the boot door rather than upwards. A bit difficult with 15" maybe.

What's the stock size in rear? As You care lot of you ride's interiors, Even a stock size replacement will do. Just make sure it matches well with your fronts.

ST7677 · 25th November 2006, 18:27

Stock size in rear is 6.5" round.

When this sub can flex steel, I doubt the OE speakers will be able to withold!
What do I do to save my speakers?

speedzak · 25th November 2006, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Stock size in rear is 6.5" round.

Perfect for a HCX165 to go with HSK165s in the front.
I didn't like 2 sets of components fitted in sedans. They were turning a bit too bright. Rear is better kept as fills and not the real sound stage.
In components, you'll have trouble to find a suitable location for tweeters and crossovers too while fitting them in the rear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

When this sub can flex steel, I doubt the OE speakers will be able to withold!
What do I do to save my speakers?

My question; Are you really going to do that with your sub?

A Subwoofer is meant to support your music in a smooth way by correctly playing the lower notes rather than blast your boot lid off!!! For that once in a while show off, it may play a bit loud too. That's all!!

If that was your intention, then in place of brahma, you should've got 2 JL Audio 13W7s or 3 Kicker solobaric L7s or Earthquakes and mate it to 2 1000W RMS SPL monoblock amps. And put them in ported boxes too. That'll even launch you thru the windshield! Do you want that??

hydrashok · 26th November 2006, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Stock size in rear is 6.5" round.
When this sub can flex steel, I doubt the OE speakers will be able to withold!

Man-oh-man!

Now that is some beast.

ST7677 · 27th November 2006, 00:16

It's not for no reason that I have picked up Brahma 15"!!!

It is supposed to be an SQL breed and can get extremely loud while being accurate.

That is why I was thinking of 2 component systems - Front and back.

I do not know how high I will be playing it. But I like strong bass which I can feel and considering that the sub will be in the boot, it will have to make an extra effort to make it's presence really felt. Rear speakers endangered...

Where are all other buddies and gurus?
After the break all seem to be on a vacation

Mugen_Power · 27th November 2006, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Where are all other buddies and gurus?
After the break all seem to be on a vacation

Ding Dong..
Mugen (Novice) is still here..
Zak Is also here..

Navinji,Lbm,Rsj,Gunbir,KB100,Autophile,Sambhai... Where are you guys ?
ICE section is not interesting and active without all of you.

Cheers,
Mugen_Power.

navin · 27th November 2006, 13:36

1. power ratings for speakers are thermal. most speaker reach the physical limits at lower power.

2. 2.5 cu. ft. sealed whould be adequate. any bigger and you will be running out of trunk room. if the Q is a high, you can always tune the bass using an aperiodic vent.

gunbir · 27th November 2006, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

It is supposed to be an SQL breed and can get extremely loud while being accurate.

Well... having heard the Brahma subs I can tell you "accurate" isnt a word I would use to describe their sound. Like all high excursion, high output subs of this class they sound "thick" (for lack of a better word). It will sound "slow" and "wooly" (if these words make any sense) with ample grunt in the low region (good for bass tracks, some hip-hop, and some electronica) but you may feel a lack of punch with regular music.

"Accurate" is a whole different class.

ST7677 · 27th November 2006, 16:32

Accurate here is relatively used among the subs I was comparing...

Initially I was leaning towards IDmax, but after hours of online research, it seemed the Brahma is considered better SQ than IDmax (ofcourse comparing 12" to 12"). These are opinions, every body will have their own!

People who have used both, say that on full excursion IDMax surround distorts badly and this creates audible distortion, whereas Brahma's distortion is extremely low. More over there are lot of durability related issues reported on IDmax and its Voice coil's are notorious for not being able to handle it's rated output.
Brahma's low distortion figures are somewhat also backed by reported distortion figures over different frequencies of diff subs. There is a lot written on patented XBL^2 and in general it is accepted that they are more linear than others.

But all this is online gyan and I have not experienced either of them first hand. Unfortunately we do not get an opportunity to experience such exotic stuff first hand here. I just read a lot and interacted with few people to make sure it suits my taste. After all SQ is not same for everybody!

Also, I have knowingly gone for 15" over 12" because I wanted my bass to be low and deep, I know it will be at cost of speed. Practicality didn;t allow for 2 12"ers.

ok, now an Important Question to Gurus:
I have read that using fills (Polyfill, etc) can make the the box size appear 25% bigger to the sub.
a) Is it true?
b) Is Polyfill available locally, at what rate?
c) if not what are the alternatives?
d) are there any disadvantages to using this approach to reduce box size?

navin · 27th November 2006, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

Also, I have knowingly gone for 15" over 12" because I wanted my bass to be low and deep, I know it will be at cost of speed.

ok, now an Important Question to Gurus:
I have read that using fills (Polyfill, etc) can make the the box size appear 25% bigger to the sub.
a) Is it true?
b) Is Polyfill available locally, at what rate?
c) if not what are the alternatives?
d) are there any disadvantages to using this approach to reduce box size?

For Polyfill try and use the filling from the Relinace Pillows
I would say you the effective volume increse would be only about 10% still it is worth it if only to absrob the rear wave.
glass wool is one alternate but it is itchy to handle so use rubber gloves open cell foam is also useable in a limited way (absorbtion is mostly in the midbass).
no real disadvantages.

speedzak · 27th November 2006, 17:14

ST!!! It's time to do some field work dude!

You should approach an installer in your vicinity. Discuss all what you want to get done. All your questions will be sorted out there better. Polyfills are available and I've told you earlier also. Now, the prices and required amount should be calculated in real world rather than virtual!!

I have a feeling you're relying too much on Internet. Believe me, it could sometimes be misleading too. So spare some time, go down the street and sit with some of the reputed installers.

And regarding the sub woofers, we already had a lot of discussions earlier and you have bought your choice. So, let's not go there again and make this into another joke thread!

No offense meant here bro!!!

ST7677 · 27th November 2006, 17:28

Nahin yaar, It's not like that. It is just that I trust people here a lot more than the real life installers who try to squeeze obscene amount of money from you.

I have met couple of who's who of install world here in Bangalor and guess what I have got quotes of 5k to 16k for doing my installation!

The moment they know details about my setup their quotes start going up.

So it helps to be better informed yourself.

Oh yes, forgive me If I have asked the same question twice, as I have really short memory and there are too many questions doing rounds!

Sam Kapasi · 27th November 2006, 20:15

ST... having lived out half my life in the real world of audio, I can assure you that comparing subwoofers at maximum excursion is silly. You will never reach that level under any conditions.

The kind of amplifiers, audio generation etc that cause the subwoofer in a car to drive at max ex, are ridiculous to the point of being funny. It may and probably happen at an spl competition and that's another story. It's a question of mine is bigger than yours. That's a competition, but I assure you that even the competitiors do not listen to loud sine wave generations after the show.

You talk of SQL, but at the same time want to know if the physical structure of your rear speaker will "withstand" the woofer. If you drive your subwoofer to the point where your rear speakers distort and get physically damaged, in effect you are planning a full SPL setup, for an SPL competition.

You see what I mean? There is nothing clear in this thread after 390 posts. I cannot understand if you want some mad aas SPL, or want to listen to some quality music. I think you want loud and clear music right? Then do not worry too much about excursions and distortions.

Baaki bacha Brahma vs IDmax, it's a pointless discusssion, you have already purchased the much respected Brahma woofer and I am dying to hear what it will sound like.
Do let us know a honest critique of the system once installed, get it done properly and post pictures when it's all over.

navin · 27th November 2006, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

ST... having lived out half my life in the real world of audio, I can assure you that comparing subwoofers at maximum excursion is silly. You will never reach that level under any conditions....Baaki bacha Brahma vs IDmax, it's a pointless discusssion, you have already purchased the much respected Brahma woofer and I am dying to hear what it will sound like..

1. half your life in the real world of audio! I thought you are "other" interests and audio was only a distraction. :-)

2. Max excursion is uaually a factor of how low you are trying to go. you can push a woofer to it's Xmax and still not deliver enough SPL at 20hz. Yet even 1/4th Xmax can achieve the same at 50Hz ot 60Hz.

3. ST, if you have already purchased your woofer why not install it and enjoy it?

25th November 2006, 12:05	#376
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Another question: My OE Rear fills are exposed to the trunk. Will they be able the sustain the pressure generated by the sub? I doubt, so how is this taken care of?
	() Thanks

25th November 2006, 13:29	#377
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	I don't think it will be a problem. Unless, you're making a very big SPL setup. Rear fills will be fine in the OE locations. The sub should be kept firing more towards the boot door rather than upwards. A bit difficult with 15" maybe. What's the stock size in rear? As You care lot of you ride's interiors, Even a stock size replacement will do. Just make sure it matches well with your fronts.
	() Thanks

25th November 2006, 18:27	#378
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Stock size in rear is 6.5" round. When this sub can flex steel, I doubt the OE speakers will be able to withold! What do I do to save my speakers?
	() Thanks

27th November 2006, 00:16	#381
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	It's not for no reason that I have picked up Brahma 15"!!! It is supposed to be an SQL breed and can get extremely loud while being accurate. That is why I was thinking of 2 component systems - Front and back. I do not know how high I will be playing it. But I like strong bass which I can feel and considering that the sub will be in the boot, it will have to make an extra effort to make it's presence really felt. Rear speakers endangered... Where are all other buddies and gurus? After the break all seem to be on a vacation
	() Thanks

27th November 2006, 13:36	#383
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,202 Thanked: 9,319 Times	1. power ratings for speakers are thermal. most speaker reach the physical limits at lower power. 2. 2.5 cu. ft. sealed whould be adequate. any bigger and you will be running out of trunk room. if the Q is a high, you can always tune the bass using an aperiodic vent.
	() Thanks

27th November 2006, 16:32	#385
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Accurate here is relatively used among the subs I was comparing... Initially I was leaning towards IDmax, but after hours of online research, it seemed the Brahma is considered better SQ than IDmax (ofcourse comparing 12" to 12"). These are opinions, every body will have their own! People who have used both, say that on full excursion IDMax surround distorts badly and this creates audible distortion, whereas Brahma's distortion is extremely low. More over there are lot of durability related issues reported on IDmax and its Voice coil's are notorious for not being able to handle it's rated output. Brahma's low distortion figures are somewhat also backed by reported distortion figures over different frequencies of diff subs. There is a lot written on patented XBL^2 and in general it is accepted that they are more linear than others. But all this is online gyan and I have not experienced either of them first hand. Unfortunately we do not get an opportunity to experience such exotic stuff first hand here. I just read a lot and interacted with few people to make sure it suits my taste. After all SQ is not same for everybody! Also, I have knowingly gone for 15" over 12" because I wanted my bass to be low and deep, I know it will be at cost of speed. Practicality didn;t allow for 2 12"ers. ok, now an Important Question to Gurus: I have read that using fills (Polyfill, etc) can make the the box size appear 25% bigger to the sub. a) Is it true? b) Is Polyfill available locally, at what rate? c) if not what are the alternatives? d) are there any disadvantages to using this approach to reduce box size? Last edited by ST7677 : 27th November 2006 at 16:35.
	() Thanks

27th November 2006, 17:14	#387
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	ST!!! It's time to do some field work dude! You should approach an installer in your vicinity. Discuss all what you want to get done. All your questions will be sorted out there better. Polyfills are available and I've told you earlier also. Now, the prices and required amount should be calculated in real world rather than virtual!! I have a feeling you're relying too much on Internet. Believe me, it could sometimes be misleading too. So spare some time, go down the street and sit with some of the reputed installers. And regarding the sub woofers, we already had a lot of discussions earlier and you have bought your choice. So, let's not go there again and make this into another joke thread! No offense meant here bro!!!
	() Thanks

27th November 2006, 17:28	#388
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Nahin yaar, It's not like that. It is just that I trust people here a lot more than the real life installers who try to squeeze obscene amount of money from you. I have met couple of who's who of install world here in Bangalor and guess what I have got quotes of 5k to 16k for doing my installation! The moment they know details about my setup their quotes start going up. So it helps to be better informed yourself. Oh yes, forgive me If I have asked the same question twice, as I have really short memory and there are too many questions doing rounds!
	() Thanks

27th November 2006, 20:15	#389
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,380 Times View My Garage	ST... having lived out half my life in the real world of audio, I can assure you that comparing subwoofers at maximum excursion is silly. You will never reach that level under any conditions. The kind of amplifiers, audio generation etc that cause the subwoofer in a car to drive at max ex, are ridiculous to the point of being funny. It may and probably happen at an spl competition and that's another story. It's a question of mine is bigger than yours. That's a competition, but I assure you that even the competitiors do not listen to loud sine wave generations after the show. You talk of SQL, but at the same time want to know if the physical structure of your rear speaker will "withstand" the woofer. If you drive your subwoofer to the point where your rear speakers distort and get physically damaged, in effect you are planning a full SPL setup, for an SPL competition. You see what I mean? There is nothing clear in this thread after 390 posts. I cannot understand if you want some mad aas SPL, or want to listen to some quality music. I think you want loud and clear music right? Then do not worry too much about excursions and distortions. Baaki bacha Brahma vs IDmax, it's a pointless discusssion, you have already purchased the much respected Brahma woofer and I am dying to hear what it will sound like. Do let us know a honest critique of the system once installed, get it done properly and post pictures when it's all over. Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 27th November 2006 at 20:20.
	() Thanks