Major ICE Upgrade in my Palio (EDIT: Car upgraded.)

zucchero · 31st December 2006, 15:48

congrats hydra!!!!!the set up looks awesome .
this surely would be one of the best sounding ICE .

hydrashok · 31st December 2006, 16:12

Thanks, JB :-) I am enjoying it to the max.

I started driving at 7 in the morning, and I'm still on the road. (Posting from my Pocket Pc while having a late lunch) No sense listening to the car with it stationary and with the engine idling. Now I can judge suppression of road noise and other external noise. The damping job is exceptional! Nearly no external noise comes in. No vibrations whatsoever. Nothing but but pure, sweet music in the car. In fact even the sound of my horn is so muted I can really make out how well external noise has gone down.

sk456, yes, these comps are just made for jazz and acoustic performances. I'm more into classic & acoustic rock and bluegrass than jazz, but it looks like I'm going the jazz way in a big way soon. I listened to a Big Sam Maclean track that Zuheimi used to demo the system. This was the first full song we listened to (myself and nikkibike) and man, it was something! Mark Knopfler and Vince Gill are right here in the car giving me a personal concert since morning today. I gave Norah Jones anf Emmylou Harris a break 'cause they were on all evening yesterday. Alison Krauss, Sheryl Crow and Tom Petty are taking the stage next.

Thanks,jCube. It is too bad we couldn't meet yesterday. Emperor's workshop is a ways behind the shop and they were open there. The shop wad closed in the 'noon. We left at about 6-6.30 from the workshop. I'll pm you my number so this won't happen again.

jkdas · 31st December 2006, 17:49

congrats!

I thought we (zak and me) would be the first lucky guys to hear it when I visited the garage. unlucky me! I was surprised to know that Zuheimi was done with the car the day before itself! kudos to him.

Installer + good products choice/combination = superb ICE

hydrashok · 31st December 2006, 23:44

Thank you, zucchero and JK! :-)

JK, I'll meet up tomorrow. Are you going back to Bangy by bus in the evening?

I got back from my test-drive by 9.00PM. Drove a whole lot. Listened to a whole lot. It is all good. I'm satisfied and happy. No problems with the equipment in extended non-stop listening sessions. Nearly all types of music that I wanted to check out I have now checked out. The CD Changer doesn't skip even in the roughest patches. Now the A/c cools the amps also (no parcel tray, boot open to cabin) which is a good thing.

I can sleep in peace and with contentment today.

But uhhh... one small worry is about how I'm going to protect the front speakers (in the door panels) from overzealous service mechanics and water-hose/compressed air blower accidents. I'll be getting rexine covers made for the 3-ways so I can velcro them on before I give the car for any kind of service/wash. That should fix this problem.

Another concern is careless passengers who may kick the midbass drivers/grilles or the XO while getting in or out of the car. Maybe I'll get a long, thin, strong double bars (separated by about 2 inches and finished in stainless steel/electroplated maybe) and fix the bar so it goes over the XO and the midbass, covering the length between the XO & midbass driver. People kicking the bar will be ok.

I'm anyway getting three-bar like things made, to act as a grille/protection for the sub's cone. Since there is no parcel tray, rear-seat passengers (though they are rare, sometimes I do need to haul some people) may be tempted to unload their stuff by tossing things directly into the boot, and then these things may land on the sub's cone -- right now the cone is naked and open to the elements.

The third concern is security. Now every tom, dick & harry can see the equipment in the boot (no parcel tray) and scope it out. I hate tempting potential thieves going about their business elsewhere. I already got a lot of oglers today at the traffic signals and at the place where I'd parked the car for lunch looking into the boot and lusting after my stuff. I do have a Nippon security system in the car, and my home parking is totally safe. I'll work something else out. I kinda like the sound with the boot open to the cabin, and the fact that the AC cools the amps well. So I dont' want to get a parcel tray done. I hate getting dark tints done (ruins my night-rear-vision) but maybe I'll need to compromise here at least for the rear window.

Now for the other additional details I'd mentioned yesterday: A few BHPians had wanted to know how the doors look when they are closed, how the sub was set-up to be "removable", and how the LED bars were setup, and where the switch for switching the LEDs on and off was fixed. I'll post the details and pics here so everyone can benefit.

1) How the doors look from inside when closed:

...

2) Sub connection: As an additional safety feature, the sub's wire is connected to a socket wired to the amp's output, and not vice-versa (wire from amp connected to a socket in the sub). This was done so there is no problem of the wire from the amp getting crossed (when the sub is removed) and potentially blowing the amp. The output from the sub amp terminates at a push-to-remove type socket situated right below the amp on the RHS panel in the boot.

An additional advantage is that if the socket was on the sub-box, sealing it for leaks would have been a bigger problem, than just have a very small outlet on the sub-box so that the wire trails out of the sub.

Pic of socket:

...

3) LED Tubes: I had two 1 ft LED tubes installed under the dash, lighting-up each footwell, and a 2 ft LED tube installed on the rear-most part of the roof (just before the hatch-lid, and just above the part where the boot begins. The tubes are wired to the door sensors, so that they turn on when the doors are opened, a-la the courtesy light. A switch was installed just on behind the gear-lever console so that I could turn off the feature, i.e. if off, the LED tubes wouldn't light-up when the doors are opened. In addition, when the switch is on, it works with the courtesy light, so that when I switch the roof light on, the LEDs also turn on.

Pic of the switch:

....

So this is about it for the install report. No more pics to post :-) I've updated the info and ICE pics in my TBHP garage.

I'll post pics of the rexine protective covers and the protective grill/bars when I get them done. I'll need to do some work at office this week (last week was wringing-my-hands-waiting-for-the-install-to-be-completed week -- not much work got done) so I may take some time getting these done.

My wishes for a very happy new year to everyone!

jkdas · 31st December 2006, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrashok

Thank you, zucchero and JK! :-)

JK, I'll meet up tomorrow. Are you going back to Bangy by bus in the evening?

But uhhh... one small worry is about how I'm going to protect the front speakers (in the door panels) from overzealous service mechanics and water-hose/compressed air blower accidents. I'll be getting rexine covers made for the 3-ways so I can velcro them on before I give the car for any kind of service/wash. That should fix this problem.

Another concern is careless passengers who may kick the midbass drivers/grilles or the XO while getting in or out of the car.

me by bike.

do something abt those frnt midbass. kb's speaker grill was damaged coz of that

hydrashok · 1st January 2007, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrashok

I listened to a Big Sam Maclean track that Zuheimi used to demo the system. This was the first full song we listened to (myself and nikkibike) and man, it was something!

Correction: Mighty Sam McClain.

Mighty Sam's music seems to be mighty hard to find :-(

gunbir · 1st January 2007, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrashok

Correction: Mighty Sam McClain.

Mighty Sam's music seems to be mighty hard to find :-(

Not if you know where to look for it Hydra...

A very Happy New Year to you all and everyone else at TBHP.

Vid6639 · 1st January 2007, 10:19

Hey Hydra instead of getting tints for the back glass you could get that sunshade on the back glass which sticks on with those vacuum plugs.

Although I'm not sure if it will move around from the air of the sub port. It's that black translucent type of cloth. You can even remove it at night or just put it on while parking.

hydrashok · 1st January 2007, 10:33

Gunbir, I did try the uhhhh... usual sources. Maybe a bit more looking around... :-)

vid6639, yes, I think I'll try something like that immediately. It tints can be avoided, nothing like it.

In fact I'm also going to try making a very light frame (maybe with the thinnest available aluminium 'L' rods) with regular speaker grille cloth (of good quality) stretched over it (the acoustically transparent type of cloth). I can then velcro this frame onto where the parcel-tray was (between the two vertical panels on which the amps have been installed). That way the stuff under it will remain hidden, the AC will still get to the amps, and I will still get the benefits of the sub firing into the cabin from the open boot. I'll probably get it done by somebody who knows his job rather than DIY (I want good and presentable finish). I'll chuck it if it doesn't look very good, though. If I can get this, all the related problems are solved. And, if I do want to show off the setup in the boot in the weekend outings, I can just remove this frame. A little bling never hurt anybody :-)

angelfire · 1st January 2007, 11:26

Hey Congrats Hydra....a real Rockin setup..Nd about the security..You CAN go for tints... cause you do have some serious equipment bro..Not only the sub... but your components can be at risk too..........Am not recomendin those dark tints..which are a real pain durin the night...Some good quality ones..Guess Lumar 20% tints aint that dark...not very light too..And it is a good idea to use a frame and speaker cloth...
Overall...Awesome install..nd a great setup...
rgrds,
angelfire

hydrashok · 2nd January 2007, 13:35

@ angelfire, thanks :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrashok

Install (including AZ Comp Fonomat damping, filling & padding, wood, etc): 11,800/-

A minor clarification of an item in post #39 ("Install"). I've got a few PMs about this, and apparently Emperor have got few calls for ICE work from T-BHPians, where this was mentioned (as a concern). (I'd visited them yesterday -- enjoyed some Jazz and Blues in Zuheimi's uber-ICEd OHC and took his advice about protecting the sub and the front comps. I'll be getting some grilles and stuff done by him soon. Will post pics when done.)

I'm posting this so all will benefit.

This amount (Install Charges) is inclusive of all charges and expenses other than the ICE equipment (speakers, amp & wiring) I bought. This cost includes:
- the damping sheets (AZ Audiocomp Fonomat).
- a few kilometers (ok, exaggerated) of A/C insulation foam that were used for filling-in all crevices and empty spots in body panels (other than the doors -- problem with window glass rolling down).
- wood, carpeting etc.
- flexible plastic sheaths for the speaker-wires and RCAs to further protect them (the power wires came with a similar plastic sheath in the kit).
- Switch for neons.
- Other misc small stuff.

Out of the total amount of 11,800/-, the labour charges come to about 3000/-.

anToNIcHeN · 2nd January 2007, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrashok

Front Speakers: Hertz ESK163 (6.5" 3-way components)
Rear Speakers: Hertz ECX130 (5.25" 2-way co-axials)
Speaker Amplifier: Audison SRx4 4-ch Amp (60w RMS x 4) to power the front speakers & back speakers

Anup, why dont you try biamping the 3way? (if thats possible on your crossover!!) and drive the rear speakers thru HU? Just try that out and would you let us know the change in effect?

hydrashok · 2nd January 2007, 15:40

Biamping of these 3-ways is not possible (no provision in XO or HU). And anyway that would be triamping (Midbass + Midrange + Tweeters). With a high-end HU, I guess it would be possible, even though the XO doesn't have the provision.

Biamping of the Hertz Energy 2-ways (ESK165s) is possible.

Autophile · 2nd January 2007, 22:53

Anoop is right. Biamping / Triamping the energy series 3-Way is not possible.

The other option is to go for active 3-Way front stage running on 6ch amplification.

speedzak · 3rd January 2007, 01:37

Hey. This setup is too good for now. The Upgrade plans could be well thought of after sometime. Ain't it?
Or is it that you've inherited a lot of green stuff lately?

Hydra! Your setup is just Awesome. Mindblowing!
Actually my best words won't justify praising your setup. It's that good.

Also try playing a track with lot of different instruments. I just enjoyed the way each and every instrument sounded in your setup.
Congrats dude.

31st December 2006, 15:48	#46
zucchero BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: faridabad/rourkela Posts: 250 Thanked: 0 Times	congrats hydra!!!!!the set up looks awesome . this surely would be one of the best sounding ICE .
	() Thanks

31st December 2006, 16:12	#47
hydrashok Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In my Office Posts: 2,528 Thanked: 17 Times View My Garage	Thanks, JB :-) I am enjoying it to the max. I started driving at 7 in the morning, and I'm still on the road. (Posting from my Pocket Pc while having a late lunch) No sense listening to the car with it stationary and with the engine idling. Now I can judge suppression of road noise and other external noise. The damping job is exceptional! Nearly no external noise comes in. No vibrations whatsoever. Nothing but but pure, sweet music in the car. In fact even the sound of my horn is so muted I can really make out how well external noise has gone down. sk456, yes, these comps are just made for jazz and acoustic performances. I'm more into classic & acoustic rock and bluegrass than jazz, but it looks like I'm going the jazz way in a big way soon. I listened to a Big Sam Maclean track that Zuheimi used to demo the system. This was the first full song we listened to (myself and nikkibike) and man, it was something! Mark Knopfler and Vince Gill are right here in the car giving me a personal concert since morning today. I gave Norah Jones anf Emmylou Harris a break 'cause they were on all evening yesterday. Alison Krauss, Sheryl Crow and Tom Petty are taking the stage next. Thanks,jCube. It is too bad we couldn't meet yesterday. Emperor's workshop is a ways behind the shop and they were open there. The shop wad closed in the 'noon. We left at about 6-6.30 from the workshop. I'll pm you my number so this won't happen again. Last edited by hydrashok : 31st December 2006 at 16:17.
	() Thanks

31st December 2006, 17:49	#48
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,687 Thanked: 1,492 Times View My Garage	congrats! I thought we (zak and me) would be the first lucky guys to hear it when I visited the garage. unlucky me! I was surprised to know that Zuheimi was done with the car the day before itself! kudos to him. Installer + good products choice/combination = superb ICE
	() Thanks

31st December 2006, 23:44	#49
hydrashok Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In my Office Posts: 2,528 Thanked: 17 Times View My Garage	Thank you, zucchero and JK! :-) JK, I'll meet up tomorrow. Are you going back to Bangy by bus in the evening? I got back from my test-drive by 9.00PM. Drove a whole lot. Listened to a whole lot. It is all good. I'm satisfied and happy. No problems with the equipment in extended non-stop listening sessions. Nearly all types of music that I wanted to check out I have now checked out. The CD Changer doesn't skip even in the roughest patches. Now the A/c cools the amps also (no parcel tray, boot open to cabin) which is a good thing. I can sleep in peace and with contentment today. But uhhh... one small worry is about how I'm going to protect the front speakers (in the door panels) from overzealous service mechanics and water-hose/compressed air blower accidents. I'll be getting rexine covers made for the 3-ways so I can velcro them on before I give the car for any kind of service/wash. That should fix this problem. Another concern is careless passengers who may kick the midbass drivers/grilles or the XO while getting in or out of the car. Maybe I'll get a long, thin, strong double bars (separated by about 2 inches and finished in stainless steel/electroplated maybe) and fix the bar so it goes over the XO and the midbass, covering the length between the XO & midbass driver. People kicking the bar will be ok. I'm anyway getting three-bar like things made, to act as a grille/protection for the sub's cone. Since there is no parcel tray, rear-seat passengers (though they are rare, sometimes I do need to haul some people) may be tempted to unload their stuff by tossing things directly into the boot, and then these things may land on the sub's cone -- right now the cone is naked and open to the elements. The third concern is security. Now every tom, dick & harry can see the equipment in the boot (no parcel tray) and scope it out. I hate tempting potential thieves going about their business elsewhere. I already got a lot of oglers today at the traffic signals and at the place where I'd parked the car for lunch looking into the boot and lusting after my stuff. I do have a Nippon security system in the car, and my home parking is totally safe. I'll work something else out. I kinda like the sound with the boot open to the cabin, and the fact that the AC cools the amps well. So I dont' want to get a parcel tray done. I hate getting dark tints done (ruins my night-rear-vision) but maybe I'll need to compromise here at least for the rear window. Now for the other additional details I'd mentioned yesterday: A few BHPians had wanted to know how the doors look when they are closed, how the sub was set-up to be "removable", and how the LED bars were setup, and where the switch for switching the LEDs on and off was fixed. I'll post the details and pics here so everyone can benefit. 1) How the doors look from inside when closed: ... 2) Sub connection: As an additional safety feature, the sub's wire is connected to a socket wired to the amp's output, and not vice-versa (wire from amp connected to a socket in the sub). This was done so there is no problem of the wire from the amp getting crossed (when the sub is removed) and potentially blowing the amp. The output from the sub amp terminates at a push-to-remove type socket situated right below the amp on the RHS panel in the boot. An additional advantage is that if the socket was on the sub-box, sealing it for leaks would have been a bigger problem, than just have a very small outlet on the sub-box so that the wire trails out of the sub. Pic of socket: ... 3) LED Tubes: I had two 1 ft LED tubes installed under the dash, lighting-up each footwell, and a 2 ft LED tube installed on the rear-most part of the roof (just before the hatch-lid, and just above the part where the boot begins. The tubes are wired to the door sensors, so that they turn on when the doors are opened, a-la the courtesy light. A switch was installed just on behind the gear-lever console so that I could turn off the feature, i.e. if off, the LED tubes wouldn't light-up when the doors are opened. In addition, when the switch is on, it works with the courtesy light, so that when I switch the roof light on, the LEDs also turn on. Pic of the switch: .... So this is about it for the install report. No more pics to post :-) I've updated the info and ICE pics in my TBHP garage. I'll post pics of the rexine protective covers and the protective grill/bars when I get them done. I'll need to do some work at office this week (last week was wringing-my-hands-waiting-for-the-install-to-be-completed week -- not much work got done) so I may take some time getting these done. My wishes for a very happy new year to everyone! Last edited by hydrashok : 31st December 2006 at 23:59.
	() Thanks

1st January 2007, 10:19	#53
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,483 Times View My Garage	Hey Hydra instead of getting tints for the back glass you could get that sunshade on the back glass which sticks on with those vacuum plugs. Although I'm not sure if it will move around from the air of the sub port. It's that black translucent type of cloth. You can even remove it at night or just put it on while parking.
	() Thanks

1st January 2007, 10:33	#54
hydrashok Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In my Office Posts: 2,528 Thanked: 17 Times View My Garage	Gunbir, I did try the uhhhh... usual sources. Maybe a bit more looking around... :-) vid6639, yes, I think I'll try something like that immediately. It tints can be avoided, nothing like it. In fact I'm also going to try making a very light frame (maybe with the thinnest available aluminium 'L' rods) with regular speaker grille cloth (of good quality) stretched over it (the acoustically transparent type of cloth). I can then velcro this frame onto where the parcel-tray was (between the two vertical panels on which the amps have been installed). That way the stuff under it will remain hidden, the AC will still get to the amps, and I will still get the benefits of the sub firing into the cabin from the open boot. I'll probably get it done by somebody who knows his job rather than DIY (I want good and presentable finish). I'll chuck it if it doesn't look very good, though. If I can get this, all the related problems are solved. And, if I do want to show off the setup in the boot in the weekend outings, I can just remove this frame. A little bling never hurt anybody :-) Last edited by hydrashok : 1st January 2007 at 10:43.
	() Thanks

1st January 2007, 11:26	#55
angelfire BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mangalore/Chicago Posts: 251 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Hey Congrats Hydra....a real Rockin setup..Nd about the security..You CAN go for tints... cause you do have some serious equipment bro..Not only the sub... but your components can be at risk too..........Am not recomendin those dark tints..which are a real pain durin the night...Some good quality ones..Guess Lumar 20% tints aint that dark...not very light too..And it is a good idea to use a frame and speaker cloth... Overall...Awesome install..nd a great setup... rgrds, angelfire
	() Thanks

2nd January 2007, 15:40	#58
hydrashok Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In my Office Posts: 2,528 Thanked: 17 Times View My Garage	Biamping of these 3-ways is not possible (no provision in XO or HU). And anyway that would be triamping (Midbass + Midrange + Tweeters). With a high-end HU, I guess it would be possible, even though the XO doesn't have the provision. Biamping of the Hertz Energy 2-ways (ESK165s) is possible.
	() Thanks

2nd January 2007, 22:53	#59
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Anoop is right. Biamping / Triamping the energy series 3-Way is not possible. The other option is to go for active 3-Way front stage running on 6ch amplification.
	() Thanks

3rd January 2007, 01:37	#60
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	Hey. This setup is too good for now. The Upgrade plans could be well thought of after sometime. Ain't it? Or is it that you've inherited a lot of green stuff lately? Hydra! Your setup is just Awesome. Mindblowing! Actually my best words won't justify praising your setup. It's that good. Also try playing a track with lot of different instruments. I just enjoyed the way each and every instrument sounded in your setup. Congrats dude.
	() Thanks