[Gill]

Dear friends,

MY setup in brief front n rear ESK-165,Ecx-165 rear,AMP 75.4
Sub is not finalised yet:-
What are ur views for image dyanmics ID8 V3 8" sub.
Features

• Reinforced Polypropylene Cone
• Thermally Conductive Voice Coil Former
• High-Roll Rubber Surround
• Inverted Dust Cap with Embossed Logo
• Custom Powder-Coated Basket
• Full Protective Magnet Cover
• Allen-Bolted Back Plate
• Mounting Depth: 4.75"
• Mounting Diameter: 7.125"

Subwoofer Specifications

• Size: 8 inch
• Rec. Sealed Box Dims: 0.40 - 0.40 cu. ft.
• Rec. Ported Box Dims: 0.75 - 0.75 cu. ft.
• Free Air Usage: yes
• Sensitivity: 85.4 dB
• Frequency Response: 10-150 Hz
• Recommended RMS Power: 50-300W
• Peak Power Handling: 350W

I am purelly driving my system for Sound quality rather then spl.I don't boom boom.Sound should be with in my car and in intend to go for sealed enc.Best of all iam on budget and i think a good 8" sub will do the Justice.

Second option is
Hertz 250D
Plz help!!!!HOW shoul i go about it!!

[hydrashok]

@Gill, I've listened (quite a bit) to a 12" ID and it sounded really good! A really good sub for SQ applications. I've not listened to an 8" ID (or IDQ). Haven't listened to a 10" ID either, but the 10" IDQs are awesome.

An 8" will be really good without being boomy, but I personally feel the 10" would be better. Simply because the 10" would go deeper and lower than the 8". And this being an ID we're talking about, you don't really have to worry at all about it being boomy. If you go for the smallest spec box (0.8 cu.ft. I think), the bass will be quite tight and defined and will not be boomy or loose.

The ES250 is also a good sub. I've not listened to the 250, but I have listened to the ES300, and found it to be really good.

Personally, for SQ application, I'd choose the ID V3. 10" over the ES250 any day.

[autopsyche]

Yes even i would really suggest you to go in for a 10" instead of an 8" unless the space saving is really really important since there isnt huge price difference between the two. Which car is the setup going into? I have a very similar setup like yours in my corolla with ESK65 fronts, ECX690 rear and ID V3 12" (i need that extra punch coz my subwoofer is locked into the boot) running off an Audison SRx5.

[Gill]

I will be using it for swift.Space in boot is huge issue as my family gonna travel with me most of the time.Budget for sub is around 8.5k.SQ is priority over SPL any given day!!

[gunbir]

Gill, you wont be able to use an ES250D with your 75.4 amp, the ES250D being a 4+4ohm DVC. I suggest the iD8 D2 or the iD10 D2, which are 2+2ohm DVC subs, resulting in a net load of 4ohms for your bridged amp.

[rishibravo]

Even i have the setup very close to yours. ESK165 in front ,ECX130 at the back, GTO 75.4 and ID V3 12". I think you should think about Arush's suggestion and go for the 10" more. You will love it. Trust me its a quality product for those who love quality sound.

[speedzak]

I also own almost same things but yet to install it. Having spent lot of time listening to different Hertz + ID setups, I suggest you go for a ID 10 D2. Don't settle for anything less. It'll blend well with rest of your setup.

I also suggest you add another amp to your setup. That'll make your setup sound really good.

Do you have 3 pairs of speakers in your car? 2 sets of ESK165 components, 1 pair of ECX165 coaxials? What car?
If my above assumption is right, then atleast 2 ID 10 D2s depending on the car.

Need some more details from your side it seems.

[clipto333]

hi,

gill, i suggested the same. a 10 incher(had a chat on pm) go for it. if you cannot extend your budget, get a hertz es300 or 250. thats in your budget i guess. but please dont forget one thing, you need an enclosure for the sub and that will cost you around 1.5-2k sealed, add another 1k if you wanna go ported(Audiocomp port).

your amp has enough grunt for a 12" sub. keep that in mind.

cheers
clip

[ScarySkulls]

Which is a better buy to drive the complete system (2 pair speakers + a 10" or 12" Sub)??
The Kenwood 8401 at Rs. 8k or GTO75.4 at 10.5k?

and should Energy line subs be opted for to cut costs?

Does an ID 10" go loud and low or a 12" is better option.

Cost cutting questions coming to mind cuz the system HAS to be squeezed in a 50k budget!

[clipto333]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

Which is a better buy to drive the complete system (2 pair speakers + a 10" or 12" Sub)??
The Kenwood 8401 at Rs. 8k or GTO75.4 at 10.5k?

and should Energy line subs be opted for to cut costs?

Does an ID 10" go loud and low or a 12" is better option.

Cost cutting questions coming to mind cuz the system HAS to be squeezed in a 50k budget!

i think the jbl would be better. it can pump 104w rms x4 at 4 ohms or 104 x 2 and 284x1(2chs bridged) at 4 ohms.

the kenwood does 60 x 4. its comparable to jbl cs60.4 .

so the 75.4 would be better as the price difference is not that great. IMHO the 75.4 is the best amp for the price it sells for.

BTW, the 75.4 retails at around 12k with b/w and around 8.5 to 9k grey. i dont understand why the price tagis 10.5k. is it with b/w?

with what are you comparing the energy line of subs with? i have an es380 15". i think its one of the better sub if not the best around. it produces clean tight bass without being boomy and go quite low as well. i really like the sq it provides and i really thank gunbir for helping me make the best choice in my budget.

oh...sorry i didnt read your post properly. 2 pair of speakers and 1 sub would need 5 or 6(assuming 2 of the 6 channels can be bridged to drive the sub) channels of amplification. if the rear fills can be powered by the HU, you can use a 4ch amp to power the rest.

whats the other equipment going in? is it going in your car?

cheers
clip

[Gill]

Friends this is confusing me a bit and the problem that croped up in my mind is still there:-

LEt us consider spec of these differnt sizes of sub:-
AS per i know, how low a sub can go is determined by frequency response,clartity in reproduction of sound- by the sensitivity level and then how loud-on the power handling capabilities.
Correct me if i am wrong.These all are ID SUB( Taken on random basis nothing particular about selection)

• Size: 8 inch
  Sensitivity: 85.4 dB
  Frequency Response: 10-150 Hz
  RecommendedRMS Power: 50-300W
  Peak Power Handling: 350W
  Impedance 4 ohms

• Size: 10 inch
  Sensitivity: 86.5 dB
  Frequency Response: 10-150 Hz
  Recommended RMS Power: 100-300W
  Peak Power Handling: 400W

• Size: 12 inch
  Sensitivity: 88.6 dB
  Frequency Response: 10-150 Hz
  Recommended RMS Power: 100-300W
  Peak Power Handling: 400W

• Hertz
  Size-10"
  sensitivity 93db/SPL
  Power handling-500w RMS,250w continous
  FReq Range-28Hz-300Hz
  Impedance 4 ohms

Now taking into consideration first three cases
frequency response level same,so all of them gonna touch same low's n high's what ever th respective figures are!!
Only difference is i power handling (leaving part hertz SUB)
So if my requirement is clean n low bass for my car which should not be that loud at all,why should i not go for 8" sub.
Or why should i go for 10" or higher.........
Loudness is not the parameter for me!!
Plz pour in with your thoughts as it will clear doubts of lot many in reagrd to size and expected output fo a subwoofer!!!

[ScarySkulls]

Originally Posted by clipto333

BTW, the 75.4 retails at around 12k with b/w and around 8.5 to 9k grey. i dont understand why the price tagis 10.5k. is it with b/w?

From where? From Chd, Gill is getting for 13k with bill and 10.5k without.

Originally Posted by clipto333

with what are you comparing the energy line of subs with?

Comparing with comparable sizes of ID subs. Cost difference is NOT too much. But still, worth spending?

Originally Posted by clipto333

oh...sorry i didnt read your post properly. 2 pair of speakers and 1 sub would need 5 or 6(assuming 2 of the 6 channels can be bridged to drive the sub) channels of amplification. if the rear fills can be powered by the HU, you can use a 4ch amp to power the rest.

Yes. rear fills get power from HU.

Originally Posted by clipto333

whats the other equipment going in? is it going in your car?

cheers
clip

Kenwood HU. ESK165 front. ECX165 rear. Connection audison wiring. This is the definate list. Other choices are still probables.

Nope. Not my car. Gill's car. I'm helping him build it.

[ScarySkulls]

Originally Posted by clipto333

So if my requirement is clean n low bass for my car which should not be that loud at all,why should i not go for 8" sub.
Or why should i go for 10" or higher.........
Loudness is not the parameter for me!!

10" doesnt mean LOUD always, I mean the kind of loudness that overpowers everything else. We will tune it to gel in well.

But honest suggestion. 10" or more IS the way to go.
Cant explain why unless I have a system to show you.
Now That I dont have. Take suggestions.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Gill

• Size: 8 inch
  Sensitivity: 85.4 dB
  Frequency Response: 10-150 Hz
  RecommendedRMS Power: 50-300W
  Peak Power Handling: 350W
  Impedance 4 ohms

• Size: 12 inch
  Sensitivity: 88.6 dB
  Frequency Response: 10-150 Hz
  Recommended RMS Power: 100-300W
  Peak Power Handling: 400W

all of them gonna touch same low's n high's what ever th respective figures are!!

these specs do not give you a complete picture of the subwofoer's performance. To get even a partial picture you need what are commonly called Theil-Small specifications. These specifications will include figures for

Free Air Resonance Frequency (Fs)
Mechanical Qms
Electrical Qes
Equivalent Volume (Vas)
Moving Mass incl air (Mms)
Compliance (Cms)
etc...

that said lets consider a 8" vs a 12" (the 10" will fall somewhere in between).

a 8" has a Surface of about 200cm2, a 12" about 400 cm2 so the 12" can usually move atleast twice as much as as an 8" hence it can play louder with less effort.

a 12" because of it's higher mass (larger cone is usually heavier than smaller cone) also has a lower Fs (resonant freq) and higher Equiv. Volume (Vas). This means that if you can afford a bigger box and your midbass dirvers can go low enough you would be better off with a 12" instead of a 8".

Choosing a subwoofer hence is not just a matter of how loud you want to play (although that is one factor) it is also a factor of how low do you want to go, how will the subwoofer mate with your other speakers, how big a box can you afford, what style of music do you listen to etc...

I'll give you an example. in my car I have 13cm midbass drivers. Initiall I had a pair of 6.5" woofers (I have very limited space) to help with the bass (notice I did not call them subwoofers). ANyway some days later I managed to build a custom fiberglass box with a 12" woofer into one the niches of the trunk and hence thought i could do away with the 6.5" woofers.

On crossing my 13cm woofers I ntoiced that they could not delvier the SPLs I wanted below 150Hz or so. My 12" however made itself very noticeable (all bass coming from the rear) if asked to go above 80Hz. Hence there was a full octave gap (80-150Hz). The solution in my case was to let the 13cm woofers operate more like midranges and cross them at 200-250Hz then let the 12" be XOed at 60hz and let the 6.5 " woofer I was going to discard operate over the 3 octaves between 60 and 200hz. This is not a ideal solution. I did this becuase I am a cheapskate and hate to discard stuff, ideally i should have changed the 13cm woofer to ones that could go lower and the sub to one that offereed better response higher up and more.

[ScarySkulls]

Originally Posted by gunbir

I suggest the iD8 D2 or the iD10 D2, which are 2+2ohm DVC subs, resulting in a net load of 4ohms for your bridged amp.

And thus when connected, the amp sees a load of 2ohm? (which makes it put out more power).....
Please correct if if wrong.

And how to connect such a sub to the terminals?

Also, reading the ID specs suggest that the sub can do with power between 100-300W RMS.
Does that mean that the Kenwood 8401 amp can power it clean and low with good loudness?? That will mean atleast 2k saved over the GTO75.4
(If however anything below 2k is the difference, then 75.4 is kinda pakka)