[Sreedharan]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Please use logic while debating:

Many of us are not able to follow what you exactly mean to say. And your replies defy any logic whatsoever.

Totally agree... I too feel that certain people took things very personally and wanted to prove their might with baseless counter arguments.

[prmd_cochin]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Please use logic while debating:

You had alleged that I was on the payroll of Tata/AL in your first reply to my post. Do you know that this is bad in law to make such frivolous, mischievous and criminal allegations?

I had complained to the Moderator and got that sentence removed.

Many of us are not able to follow what you exactly mean to say. And your replies defy any logic whatsoever.

I knew you cannot be employed by either TATA/AL, but my line was to just state what it sounded like. Yeah the moderator did remove that line and many more. I'm OK with that.

But then you went about ranting about Volvo's as if its the only manufacturer whose bus catches fire in India. Many more die in our AL/TATA buses due to poor engineering and maintenance. How can you ignore that?

• And what was your point calling it combustible coffins?
• Is Volvo to be blamed for their buses being run at high speeds?
• Is Volvo to be blamed for operator storing liquor and other inflammable substances in the cargo hold?
• Are Volvo to be blamed for missing hammers?
• Is Volvo to be blamed for badly designed roads?

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

THE VOLVO HIGHWAY COMBUSTIBLE COFFINS
A bus getting smashed due to over speeding is OK, but getting burnt every time upon impact, makes the matter very serious and worth cognisance by one and all.

Volvo gets burned every time on impact??? An effort by you that smells hatred unexplained?

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Many of us are not able to follow what you exactly mean to say. And your replies defy any logic whatsoever.

Hatred, bias always stops one from seeing and understanding the logic.

[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by prmd_cochin

I knew you cannot be employed by either TATA/AL, but my line was to just state what it sounded like. Yeah the moderator did remove that line and many more. I'm OK with that.

But then you went about ranting about Volvo's as if its the only manufacturer whose bus catches fire in India. Many more die in our AL/TATA buses due to poor engineering and maintenance. How can you ignore that?

• And what was your point calling it combustible coffins?
• Is Volvo to be blamed for their buses being run at high speeds?
• Is Volvo to be blamed for operator storing liquor and other inflammable substances in the cargo hold?
• Are Volvo to be blamed for missing hammers?
• Is Volvo to be blamed for badly designed roads?

Volvo gets burned every time on impact??? An effort by you that smells hatred unexplained?



Hatred, bias always stops one from seeing and understanding the logic.

I definitely agree that volvo buses are of international standards and AL/TATA are also following the footsteps of volvo in terms of design,quality and reliability.

There have been instances where AL/TATA buses have caught fire due to mishap. Media bashing of volvo buses due to their recent accidents is uncalled for. The fact is such powerful beasts need good roads to be operated on. The drivers have to be properly trained to drive these buses followed by regular maintenance.
The above sentence i quoted looks to be the main culprit.Since the engine is equipped with raw power, the drivers have a tendency to drive rash leading to accidents.
We do have good roads but discipline is lacking. Even on highways, people come in the wrong direction, turn at the crossings blindly.
In my opinion, it would be better if speed governors are fitted on these private operated volvo buses in line with what KSRTC has done. Until and unless lane discipline is not followed, speed will always be a deterrent on indian roads

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by Sreedharan

Totally agree... I too feel that certain people took things very personally and wanted to prove their might with baseless counter arguments.

Yes Sreedharan, if I state my viewpoint harping upon the safety, because even the governments of A.P. and Karnataka had found fault with these buses, personal allegations are levelled against me, its not a healthy debate.

The two governments had taken these buses off the road for quite sometime and I had interacted with users, both in Bangalore and Hyderabad during my recent visits to both the metros in December 2013.The Transport Commissioners' offices of the two states are not foolish to take such a tough decision, putting thousands of commuters into unlimited hardships.I had read news reports in the local papers of Bangalore and Hyderabad that had described the fire incidents right from the Mumbai- Ahmedabad Volvo bus fire more than five years ago followed by many such incidents.

There are so many news links if the Google search engine is activated with the phrase "Volvo buses fire, India".

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=Vo...GuPV8gfsvYCACg

I believe as per such logic, all those speaking against the Volvo safety are Tata/ AL agents?

Some of us tend to lose reasoning while engaging in a debate. After all, there are ways of putting our viewpoints for or against the enumerated points in any thread, without leveling unsubstantiated, illogical and mischievous, criminal personal allegations over the integrity of anyone.

I think this topic on Volvo buses is much debatable and debates only bring out viewpoints and counter-viewpoints, finally emerging into some logical conclusions.

The moot point is that the buses come with sealed windows and are made by the company that is known to be No. 1 in automobile safety since many decades. Emergency exits are unknown to all passengers and even the ubiquitous hammer to break open the glass in such cases is not properly kept so that each passenger knows about its location. Passengers have been burnt to death in the dead of the night while asleep in most cases. Thats definitely tragic. I am not sure who is to blame- Volvo, the operator or the government?

So let us ignore such baseless talk and allegations and continue the debate in a healthy manner most suited to the high standards, discipline, ambiance and ethics of our great big teambhp forum.

[prmd_cochin]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

I am not sure who is to blame- Volvo, the operator or the government?

Nice, that's better anjan. Exactly what I said.
Cheers Mate.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by suresh_gs

I definitely agree that volvo buses are of international standards and AL/TATA are also following the footsteps of volvo in terms of design,quality and reliability.

In my opinion, it would be better if speed governors are fitted on these private operated volvo buses in line with what KSRTC has done. Until and unless lane discipline is not followed, speed will always be a deterrent on indian roads

True on both facts. But there is a taxation policy of the government which demands increasing number of local components to be used every year, and import of low technology products like internal PU fittings etc stops first.
But the real fact is that Indians will develop high end components like ECU's or the engines themselves fast, while they ignore low tech products. Places like China and South Korea have quickly gone in for quality in low tech things like plastic moldings etc.

The Volvos do have a electronic speed governor, a Volvo fleet owner I know has locked his buses at 90, and I have driven them and experienced no drop in performance. You get 90 at 1900 RPM in 6th and In Gear 2 , 3 , 4 and 5 the engine is restricted to 2200 RPM which translates to about 83 in 5th.
The older buses E-II ones did not have an ECU and only RPM could be restricted causing drop in performance. Speed governing can be GPS linked too.

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Yes Sreedharan, if I state my viewpoint harping upon the safety, because even the governments of A.P. and Karnataka had found fault with these buses, personal allegations are levelled against me, its not a healthy debate.
The two governments had taken these buses off the road for quite sometime and I had interacted with users, both in Bangalore and Hyderabad during my recent visits to both the metros in December 2013.The Transport Commissioners' offices of the two states are not foolish to take such a tough decision, putting thousands of commuters into unlimited hardships.

True personal allegations should not be leveled.
The bigger issue here is that each state government sets different rules, often surpassing rules set by national level bodies like ARAI, VRDE etc. This creates several issues. A simple rule that Maharashtra and Karnataka states that a commercial vehicle can have a single horn and two tones are not allowed.
Hariyana says that two horns a compulsory one low db level one for city and one high db level high pitch (low spread) one focused only in the front to be used on highway only. Musical horns are banned by all.

First of all the rules and regulations should be national level ones, and secondly a reasonable speed limit with GPS link of 60 for highways through city limits, 80 for 2 lane ones and 100 for divided multi lane ones should be taken. All current day buses have a fuel efficiency sweet spot between 65 and 90 only, with Volvo having the widest 65 to 90, and Leyland having a narrow 70 to 76 band.

Rahul

[500ContyCruiser]

Came across this video on FB:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=688367197865929

Look at the speed the bus is driven!

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by 500ContyCruiser

Look at the speed the bus is driven!

Guess the bus is at 100+ kmph and at least not lane changing frequently so he is sticking to the rightmost lane.



The bus looks beautiful, white colour, long body and tinted black windows! Nice design!

Anurag.

[Dry Ice]

Tempo rear ends a Volvo and it catches fire!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/32772373.cms

NAVI MUMBAI: Two persons were burnt to death in an accident on Mumbai-Pune Expressway early Thursday when a tempo dashed against a stationary Volvo bus at the Urse toll plaza in Talegaon region.

The Volvo bus was heading towards Karnataka via the Expressway.

At around 3 am, the bus had stopped at the toll plaza, when suddenly from behind a speeding tempo collided into it and broke the air-conditioning plant fitted at the back of the Volvo bus.

According to the police control, both the heavy vehicles caught fire due to this collision, leading to the deaths of the tempo driver and the cleaner. Their identities are not yet known.

"All the bus passengers had safely managed to evacuate the vehicle after the accident. The registration number plates of the tempo have also been burnt badly; so investigation is on to find out the identities of the two deceased persons in the tempo," said a police official.

The Talegaon police, in Pune (rural) zone, are inquiring into the matter.

[malgudi]

Saw this volvo bus and tempo today early morning. It was just before the toll plaza. Both the vehicles were completely burnt (but still smoking) & this was a multi axle volvo. I think so far all the buses which have caught fire are the multiaxle ones which leads to the question on design of these multiaxle buses

[Ashley2]

In a move to tame reckless drivers of long haul inter-state buses, government wants to make it mandatory for all such vehicles to have black box, speed controllers and seat belts for passengers.

The black box will record the driving behaviour of the man on the wheels and also record whether the driver worked beyond the permissible hours in a day. "During the investigation of three Volvo crash cases, it came to our notice that the buses were in high speed when the accidents took place. So, these buses need to have the speed limiting devices," said a senior road transport ministry official. ...

New link here

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Yes Sreedharan, if I state my viewpoint harping upon the safety, because even the governments of A.P. and Karnataka had found fault with these buses, personal allegations are levelled against me, its not a healthy debate.

The two governments had taken these buses off the road for quite sometime and I had interacted with users, both in Bangalore and Hyderabad during my recent visits to both the metros in December 2013.The Transport Commissioners' offices of the two states are not foolish to take such a tough decision, putting thousands of commuters into unlimited hardships.I had read news reports in the local papers of Bangalore and Hyderabad that had described the fire incidents right from the Mumbai- Ahmedabad Volvo bus fire more than five years ago followed by many such incidents.


Some of us tend to lose reasoning while engaging in a debate. After all, there are ways of putting our viewpoints for or against the enumerated points in any thread, without leveling unsubstantiated, illogical and mischievous, criminal personal allegations over the integrity of anyone.

I think this topic on Volvo buses is much debatable and debates only bring out viewpoints and counter-viewpoints, finally emerging into some logical conclusions.

The moot point is that the buses come with sealed windows and are made by the company that is known to be No. 1 in automobile safety since many decades. Emergency exits are unknown to all passengers and even the ubiquitous hammer to break open the glass in such cases is not properly kept so that each passenger knows about its location. Passengers have been burnt to death in the dead of the night while asleep in most cases. Thats definitely tragic. I am not sure who is to blame- Volvo, the operator or the government?
....

World's no 1 in safety is purely a market talk and these accidents are true to the core that there is some homework to be done by Volvo. Let them be greatest safety on wheels anywhere, but quite sure they are not in India. With just 5000 Volvo's in India and of which atleast 1000 buses are city buses, the accident rate to the volume on road is alarming. There is no point in repeatedly speaking, whatever happened is because of reckless driving, reason being no driver will dare to drive and kill others with his life is under risk.

Coming the point of safety, Volvo has not done anything more than what CMVR and ARAI has asked for. And whenever executives from Volvo speak, they defend them only with the fact that they comply to all regulations and nothing they have over ruled. (Good and congratulations Sir, plz take your seat along with everybody. Plz don’t harp as im the safest). Then there is nothing Volvo can take credit for offering the safest seat. Also the investigations from respective states involved Volvo too. It was along with them these were concluded and there is nothing wrong to blame state Govt.
Then they are yet an another manufacturer making yet an another bus. No point in seeing a video in YouTube demonstrating the safety, and buying travelling in something different, thinking they are safe. They cannot claim anything to term them as the safest or at to the level of pinnacle of safety (which many people market here). We are happy they are better( just because they have FUPS which is again not available in all models) but still a long way to be the Best and to exclude them from Cause.

In the issue of side glass, only alternate glasses are breakable and rest are not. When we are panic we do not know which to break and waste time in breaking a wrong window. Coupled with the limited availability of hammers, precious time is killed. There are lots of open points still in the bus body, like usage of heavy adhesives inside saloon for pasting upholstery, side pillars, panes etc. The plywood’s are not with fire resistive. The PVC mat used is again combustible. There is no additional safety in the engine compartment like fire suppression system (which is available by others elsewhere).

Wrt speed locking, its impossible to open a speed locked coach by operator. Its Volvo which locks the coach at factory and its Volvo which releases the same upon requested by operators post registration.

Coming to the same point of fuel tank location, when questions were asked about its locations it was answered saying, they are same as rest of world and only here it’s questioned. If that's the case, all new coaches in Volvo like B11R have a steel tank and is located ahead of rear axle inside the luggage compartment unlike B7R and B9R. Why was this design change initiated with in Volvo? Did Volvo encounter similar problems elsewhere? We do not know? or that was a continuous improvement? If so what was the flaw in the current design? We do not know?

What we all know is Volvo doesn't (better to term as Can’t make mistake) make mistake and is only authorities, drivers, owners, NHAI and finally people who speak against Volvo.
And yes,.

(My point of contention is - Im not eliminating Volvo from the cause and they do have role in fire accidents. Along with them other issues are still there)

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

NEW DELHI: In a move to tame reckless drivers of long haul inter-state buses, government wants to make it mandatory for all such vehicles to have black box, speed controllers and seat belts for passengers.

The black box will record the driving behaviour of the man on the wheels and also record whether the driver worked beyond the permissible hours in a day. "During the investigation of three Volvo crash cases, it came to our notice that the buses were in high speed when the accidents took place. So, these buses need to have the speed limiting devices," said a senior road transport ministry official.

To make a beginning, the focus is likely to be on Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra where these luxury buses ply in big numbers and are quite popular for inter-state travel on weekends. Sources said since many of such buses are relatively old, there is a need to fix seat belts for all the passengers so that they don't fall off or are thrown out in case of an accident

Welcome move! They should also mandate these operators to distribute some kind of safety manual before every journey or better yet stick these to the seat backs. Make some basic training mandatory - find a way to link this to the driver's license. Penalize the operator if an untrained driver is found at the wheel.

And speed limiting devices! Is it the only thing they can come up with! For our law makers it seems speed = accident. Someone tell them to plug the loopholes in the commercial license issue procedures first.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

And speed limiting devices! Is it the only thing they can come up with! For our law makers it seems speed = accident.

No one reads manuals or sheets that contain safety information in buses. All either sleep or look issue the windows or wait desperately for the movie to play. Nothing much can be fine by placing safety manuals or pining it behind the seat-backs.

See, one thing is the government gets an easy way out in such cases where the court asks them to investigate and find out the root cause with the solution. The answer is S.P.E.E.D so install speed governers to check the speed.

Anurag.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

No one reads manuals or sheets

By that logic, shouldn't the airlines stop their safety briefings as well? Or stop providing the safety information leaflets?

You would be amazed by your subconscious mind's power. A simple graphic showing the location and how to break open an emergency window stuck behind the seat can make a difference between life and death.

[Chetan_Rao]

Here's the real-world situation, sans the mud-slinging. Take your own call on culpability:

Risky placement of factory-fitted fuel tanks - debatable/needs research - manufacturer responsible

Build material suitability - Same materials used globally/may need tweaking to suit Indian conditions/needs research - manufacturer/regulatory authority responsible

Shady maintenance practices - some buses are visibly in poor condition/T-BHPian(s) have narrated first hand accounts of dodgy maintenance practices - operator responsible

Removal of rear emergency door to accommodate extra seats - known fact - operator responsible

Front door blocked by extra seat - known fact - operator responsible (cabin manufactured & modified to operator specifications)

Hammers not installed/removed by operator/stolen by passengers - missing hammers known fact on most buses/reason(s) debatable - operator/passengers responsible

Dodgy after-market electrical accessories fitted on buses/poor workmanship - known fact - operator responsible

Additional after-market fuel tanks of questionable safety standards posing significant safety hazard - known fact in transport circles/needs corroborating evidence to prove to public - operator responsible

Questionable training of drivers before deployment - debatable - operator responsible

Drivers working beyond acceptable fatigue levels - known fact/easily verifiable by speaking to driver(s) - operator responsible

Buses driven rashly/without following road safety guidelines/rules - known fact to anyone who has ever driven on a highway (enough first-hand videos floating around to corroborate) - operator responsible (ties back to driver training point)

Co-driver not accommodated within bus cabin - known fact in at least one recent case - operator responsible

Flammable cargo in luggage holds - known fact on most buses/corroborating evidence available to anyone willing to take a peek in luggage hold - operator/passenger responsible

Road design flawed - known fact for lots of present roads/needs research - regulatory authority responsible


Fair enough?