[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by ads11

I wonder if the A330 will be used less in its MRTT guise for tanker and other transport now. Can't imagine such a conspicuous livery being ideal for those roles.

I see that the the rear fuselage mounted telescopic Boom refuelling system has been removed OR did the RAF Voyagers never have it?

It retains the wing mounted probe and drogue systems but which self respecting Air Force in this world would want to fly such a brightly coloured aircraft in combat?

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

How does the PM/President get around within the country especially to Tier2 cities which might not have a runway for a 777 to land? Do they use and IAF craft for such trips?

IAF Boeing 737-700 BBJs of the Air HQ & Comms Sqdn are used by the PM and other dignitaries to fly into airports that cannot handle large aircraft of the B777 or A330 types.

The same squadron's ERJ-135s,which are even smaller, are also used at times.

There were a few VIP configured and large windowed Mi-8s(that were supposed to be replaced by the much maligned AW101s) that were used to land at helipads. I suppose those VIP Mi-8s are still flying.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by ads11

Oh, turns out I was late to the party. There's clear video of the new scheme.
...

That 180° turn was a torture for the nose wheel! What was that flying off the wing shortly after nose up? Looks like some mask or plastic.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

How does the PM/President get around within the country especially to Tier2 cities which might not have a runway for a 777 to land? Do they use and IAF craft for such trips?

I would be very interested in seeing the interiors of these 777 planes.

IAF operates a bunch of Boeing Business Jets(BBJ) which are used for VIP travel inside India

[Stratos]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

IAF operates a bunch of Boeing Business Jets(BBJ) which are used for VIP travel inside India

The 737s also travel abroad. Not only them, I photographed the IAF ERJ in Brussels two years back with our Former Minister of External Affairs, late Mrs. Sushma Swaraj on board.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

I see that the the rear fuselage mounted telescopic Boom refuelling system has been removed OR did the RAF Voyagers never have it?

It retains the wing mounted probe and drogue systems but which self respecting Air Force in this world would want to fly such a brightly coloured aircraft in combat?

Well come to think of it, whatever colour you paint a big lumbering tanker/transport jet like the A330, it's going to light up on someone's radar. Not much you can do at that point. I suppose it's where the folks lobbying for a more low observable or at least less vulnerable tanker are coming from in the USAF community. Their entire assortment of fighters are all short legged, entirely reliant on tanker support and that's an incredibly vital part of the spoke that's ripe for picking off from stand off ranges to hobble any advanced USAF combat deployment. It's why the PLAAF J-20 is the way it is. The clever folks basically realised they don't need to go after the F-22 directly, all they need is something that gets them through to within the air defence sphere and lob a stand off munition at the tanker (and AWAC for that matter) and then bug out and then that's job done. Now those USAF combat jets are far from home and short on fuel and you've pulled the rug out from under. The rest of the 4+ jets in PLAAF inventory have more of a chance now. It's why the USN basically are going their own way with their stealth UAV programme having the primary objective of being a tanker - that way you can embed it in a forward air arm without risking the bigger brother tankers which can comfortably quarterback from afar.

Anyway, I've digressed again. Sorry.

If they ever replace those 737 BBJs I wonder if they could end up looking at the A220 in the future. It seems an excellent little jet, frugal too. Would be very future proof and I'd reckon more than handy for any travel within a large regional sphere. Those BBJs must be getting on as well. How old are they?

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by ads11

...
Anyway, I've digressed again. Sorry.

good strategy!

Originally Posted by ads11

If they ever replace those 737 BBJs I wonder if they could end up looking at the A220 in the future. It seems an excellent little jet, frugal too. Would be very future proof and I'd reckon more than handy for any travel within a large regional sphere. Those BBJs must be getting on as well. How old are they?

Having in flown in one of the 220's, I can assure that it indeed is a beautiful jet for medium distances. If equipped properly it can do long distances but I don't think any VIP does that much travel in one go. Like if they plan a visit to USA from India, they make sure to stop in Europe to say hi to some of their friends. A220 is a perfect jet for travelling with a small entourage and not to attract huge attention to oneself. One of the Saudi's is already considering one such jet for their personal use instead of their gas guzzling 747 where anyway only one royal family travels.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Having in flown in one of the 220's, I can assure that it indeed is a beautiful jet for medium distances. If equipped properly it can do long distances but I don't think any VIP does that much travel in one go. Like if they plan a visit to USA from India, they make sure to stop in Europe to say hi to some of their friends. A220 is a perfect jet for travelling with a small entourage and not to attract huge attention to oneself. One of the Saudi's is already considering one such jet for their personal use instead of their gas guzzling 747 where anyway only one royal family travels.

I'd not actually seen much about it till I randomly came across an Air Baltic video and it looked really nice so was doing some reading. Turns out it's quite a good little plane that's perfectly positioned attribute wise in a post COVID aviation market. Likely won't be a while now but hopefully get to travel on one in the coming years.
I wasn't aware the Saudi's had considered adding one to their Royal Flight. Wow, isn't that a sign of the times that the days of near endless oil largesse are at their end. Those short body 747s are curious objects, I think the Qatari Royal Flight sold one a few years ago but the full size ones for royal use are obscenely excessive. Besides at the rate MBS is ruthlessly making "efficiency cuts" to the Al Saud family, there might not even be that many big wig Princes left to have their own 747..

[mmxylorider]

For long haul flights, a wide body aircraft is much more better especially if that is to be a VIP flight. The A220 is a great aircraft but best suited for less than 5 hr flights. In addition, a Presidential aircraft is not just about transporting the VIP but also an entourage of aides/ministers/press and maybe supplies. The 777 and the 747 are best suited for such service. IMO, the 747 design has best recognition value and the -8 version is an ideal long haul VIP aircraft.

[Jeroen]

Why do we, apparently, insist our VIPs travel in comfort and luxury, whilst most of us when flying, reside in cattle class?

Why cant people who are paid through our tax dollars fly economy?

Jeroen

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by ads11

Well come to think of it, whatever colour you paint a big lumbering tanker/transport jet like the A330, it's going to light up on someone's radar. Not much you can do at that point. I suppose it's where the folks lobbying for a more low observable or at least less vulnerable tanker are coming from in the USAF community. Their entire assortment of fighters are all short legged, entirely reliant on tanker support and that's an incredibly vital part of the spoke that's ripe for picking off from stand off ranges to hobble any advanced USAF combat deployment. It's why the PLAAF J-20 is the way it is.

Well I guess I wrong. They just used it as a tanker to refuel RAF Fighters. Here's the MRTT refuelling two RAF F-35Bs and probably later an RAF EF-2000 as well.

Originally Posted by ads11

If they ever replace those 737 BBJs I wonder if they could end up looking at the A220 in the future. It seems an excellent little jet, frugal too. Would be very future proof and I'd reckon more than handy for any travel within a large regional sphere. Those BBJs must be getting on as well. How old are they?

The three B737-700 BBJs were delivered between 2007 and 2009. They are not going away anytime soon. I am not sure if the VIP 737-200s have been retired or converted to an ISR platform(s)...like the elusive and secretive IAF(RAW?) Boeing 707 ISR jet.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Well I guess I wrong. They just used it as a tanker to refuel RAF Fighters. Here's the MRTT refuelling two RAF F-35Bs and probably later an RAF EF-2000 as well.
...like the elusive and secretive IAF(RAW?) Boeing 707 ISR jet.

So, the Brits can now take their fighter escort along with them always and refuel them enroute to stay afloat.

That 707 belonged to Aviation Research Centre (ARC/NTRO). They have now moved to modern Embraers and Bombardiers with much more hi-tech kit for "research" purposes.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

For long haul flights, a wide body aircraft is much more better especially if that is to be a VIP flight. The A220 is a great aircraft but best suited for less than 5 hr flights. In addition, a Presidential aircraft is not just about transporting the VIP but also an entourage of aides/ministers/press and maybe supplies. The 777 and the 747 are best suited for such service. IMO, the 747 design has best recognition value and the -8 version is an ideal long haul VIP aircraft.

Oh I wasn't suggesting the A220 as a replacement for either the 777 or 747, it was more as a replacement for the 737 BBJs. Basically the mid size option in the executive airlift fleet in between the full fat 777 and the smaller ERJs.

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Well I guess I wrong. They just used it as a tanker to refuel RAF Fighters.

The three B737-700 BBJs were delivered between 2007 and 2009. They are not going away anytime soon.

Oh wow, they really didn't waste any time pressing the newly painted jet back into service, especially for a photo op. That photo definitely was planned to show off the RAFs shiniest new toys. It's a bit jarring at first because I suppose my brain immediately associates such a colourful livery with a civilian airliner but then I see drogues extending from it to the military jets and it's all a bit incongruous.

Ah yeah, I figured the BBJs were delivered in the 90s, hence they could be in line for replacement soon but yeah, late noughties, no chance they get replaced for another two decades at the earliest.

[mmxylorider]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Why do we, apparently, insist our VIPs travel in comfort and luxury, whilst most of us when flying, reside in cattle class?

Why cant people who are paid through our tax dollars fly economy?

Jeroen

International Protocols around receiving heads of state, flexibility of travel with dedicated aircraft and lastly, well rested VIPs will be better at accomplishing the purpose of the trip.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Why do we, apparently, insist our VIPs travel in comfort and luxury, whilst most of us when flying, reside in cattle class?

Why cant people who are paid through our tax dollars fly economy?

Jeroen

Isn't it the same question, and hence, answer, relevant for business leaders. Why afford the C-suite charter/company jets. Because every second counts and they have to be productive every minute awake and be awake every minute humanly possible.

Or so we've been told.

But imagine the logistical nightmare and misery if VIPs flew alongside the cattle. PM/President, I concur should have their own transport. But every other TDH VIP in politics deserves nothing more than the last row in Economy right next to the loo on a budget airliner.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

International Protocols around receiving heads of state, flexibility of travel with dedicated aircraft and lastly, well rested VIPs will be better at accomplishing the purpose of the trip.

Well, I dont buy that? Why does a VIP need to be better rested than anybody else or me for that matter. I too, and I assume most of us, would love to have flexibility to travel at dates and times to suit, rather than o adjust to carrier schedules.

Protocol, bah, real leaders don't care about protocol. You can be welcomed coming out of a regular plane, just as well.

VIPs, including governments of some nation, fly commercially. The Dutch Royal family and head of state flies commercial. And they don't even fly their own flag carrier (i.e. KLM) because somebody else offered cheaper tickets!

Leaders should always remember who they are leading. On no account should they consider themselves more importantly, or their time more importantly than those they lead. Being a courageous leader means setting example in everything you do and say. Getting yourself a VIP jet because of protocol, time, convenience is a bad example. Nobody else has that option, a true leader will make different arrangements.

All these VIP planes, irrespective which nation, are just ego boosters, nothing else.

Jeroen