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Old 3rd June 2020, 10:49   #1
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Default Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders

First of two brand new converted Air India 777-300ERs that will serve as the PM's official planes. Extensively modified with defensive countermeasures and encrypted communication systems. Registration VT-ALW.

Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-ezj9udevcamlbgg.jpeg

I just found this out and its making my blood boil :

The prefix 'VT' stands for Victorian or Viceroy Territory, which is the nationality code that each aircraft registered in India is required to carry.

The Britain set the prefix 'VT' for India before the partition in 1929. The British set the code for all the colonies starting with V. However, countries like China, Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka changed their codes later.

What kind of incompetent Governments for the last 70+ years couldn't change this
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Old 3rd June 2020, 11:28   #2
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

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Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
First of two brand new converted Air India 777-300ERs that will serve as the PM's official planes. Extensively modified with defensive countermeasures and encrypted communication systems. Registration VT-ALW.
This aircraft was delivered in Jan2018 and sent back in July 2018 for converting to Air India 1. Any idea what is the other aircraft registration?

With interiors stripped out and lesser load than a commercial 300ER, the increase in range would be significantly bumped up.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 11:54   #3
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

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Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
First of two brand new converted Air India 777-300ERs that will serve as the PM's official planes. Extensively modified with defensive countermeasures and encrypted communication systems. Registration VT-ALW.
This looks photoshopped. Notice how blurry the windows are and how crisp the saffron/green cheatlines are. The flag on the tail fin doesn't look real at all.

The aircraft will mostly be operated by IAF's VIP Flight(Air HQ & Communications Sqdn "Pegasus") and VT-ALW regn will most likely not be retained. It will have a a K-XXXX series serial number(like the ERJs and B737s of Air HQ & Comms Sqdn).

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The prefix 'VT' stands for Victorian or Viceroy Territory, which is the nationality code that each aircraft registered in India is required to carry.
If I remember correctly, we had a lengthy discussion about this previously on the forum. VT stands for Victor Tango and not Viceroy's Territory. Australian civil aircraft have VH-XXX regns, where VH stands for Victor Hotel.

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In July 1919 the International Commission for Airline Navigation allocated civil airliner registration prefixes to every nation.

Members of the Empire were given the letter G- followed by the next one or two letter signifying the country itself, for Australia this was G-AU, New Zealand G-NZ.

This operated until 1927 when the International Radiotelegraph Convention in Washington, USA produced a revised table of registrations which were adopted by ICAN.

As Australia did not have a seat on ICAN it was allocated random letters and was arbitrarily allocated VH-, so G-AUEH became VH-AEH, dropping the prefix and first letter of its original British Empire code.

Last edited by skanchan95 : 3rd June 2020 at 12:11.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 12:25   #4
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

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Originally Posted by skanchan95 View Post
This looks photoshopped. Notice how blurry the windows are and how crisp the saffron/green cheatlines are. The flag on the tail fin doesn't look real at all.

The aircraft will mostly be operated by IAF's VIP Flight(Air HQ & Communications Sqdn "Pegasus") and VT-ALW regn will most likely not be retained. It will have a a K-XXXX series serial number(like the ERJs and B737s of Air HQ & Comms Sqdn).



If I remember correctly, we had a lengthy discussion about this previously on the forum. VT stands for Victor Tango and not Viceroy's Territory. Australian civil aircraft have VH-XXX regns, where VH stands for Victor Hotel.
Thanks for pointing out the fake ! I also was suspicious when I could not find any other picture of the aircraft online.

Regarding VT I found this article, I thought it was true since its from a reputed website:

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/ev...or-1553191.htm

The prefix 'VT' stands for Victorian or Viceroy Territory, which is the nationality code that each aircraft registered in India is required to carry. The code is generally seen just before the rear exit door and above the windows.

The Britain set the prefix 'VT' for India before the partition in 1929. The British set the code for all the colonies starting with V. However, countries like China, Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka changed their codes later. While in India, the prefix has remained on the aircraft even after 90 years, which caused a lot of commotion in 2016 with BJP member Tarun Vijay saying that the registration number of Indian aircraft marks the legacy of 'British Raj'.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 12:39   #5
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

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Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
Thanks for pointing out the fake ! I also was suspicious when I could not find any other picture of the aircraft online.

Regarding VT I found this article, I thought it was true since its from a reputed website:
[/i]
I prefer VT suffix whether it symbolises colonial heritage or not.

Has change in name of cities in India bought any tangible benefits to citizens?
The best thing to do is to accept our past and strive for best without getting caught in political jingoism.

Could any member throw light as to whether Indian AirlinesA300 served morning Delhi - chennai route in 1989- 90 or was duty done by new Airbus A 320.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 15:09   #6
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Default The New Air India One

The aircraft designated to fly VVIPs like our President, our Vice-President and our Prime Minister has call sign Air India One. All these years, a Boeing 747 from the Air India was used for these flights. Lately, there were talks of a new one replacing the ageing B747s. And we have finally got one of the 2 exclusive aircraft to be designated Air India One. It's a B777-300ER which has undergone extensive protection modifications as well as anti missile systems. Details here. These will be flown by the Indian Air Force pilots, just like the 737 BBJs these dignitaries use for travel inside India or neighbouring countries like Sri Lanka and Nepal.

Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-20200603_151423.jpg
This livery does look great for a change.

Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-20200603_151431.jpg

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Last edited by BoneCollector : 3rd June 2020 at 15:16.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 15:16   #7
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Default re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders

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Are these PESA/AESA radars?
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Old 3rd June 2020, 15:18   #8
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Default re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders

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Are these PESA/AESA radars?
This is the description given on Twitter.

Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-screenshot_20200603152242.jpg
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Old 3rd June 2020, 15:44   #9
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

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Originally Posted by skanchan95 View Post
VT stands for Victor Tango and not Viceroy's Territory. Australian civil aircraft have VH-XXX regns, where VH stands for Victor Hotel.
I was assuming that Victor Tango and Victor Hotel were the pronunciations of VT and VH respectively in NATO Phonetic alphabet and not the other way around? Just as the White House is also abbreviated to WH and therefore also called Whiskey Hotel.

Last edited by arijitkanrar : 3rd June 2020 at 15:46. Reason: added info
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Old 3rd June 2020, 15:49   #10
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

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Originally Posted by skanchan95 View Post
If I remember correctly, we had a lengthy discussion about this previously on the forum. VT stands for Victor Tango and not Viceroy's Territory. Australian civil aircraft have VH-XXX regns, where VH stands for Victor Hotel.
I don’t think it stands for Victor Tango. That is just how letters of the Alfabet are read out in the world of aviation.; A for Alfa, B for Beta, C for Charlie etc

Have a look at the various country codes in this table.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ation_prefixes

Very difficult to establish a direct link between the code and the actual country I find.

Last edited by Jeroen : 3rd June 2020 at 15:58.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 16:06   #11
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Default re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders

so finally the SPG has gotten over its fixation for four engines for VVIP aircraft.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 16:08   #12
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

I had my suspicions about that photo too, given the myriad issues right now, a shiny new executive transport suddenly making it's first public appearance isn't exactly a good image to be projecting right now. But agreed with skanchan, the text looks far too sharp compared to the rest of the image.

All that being said, it Does give a nice idea of what it might look like. Has there been any stories about what the potential paint scheme might be? Given the almighty brouhaha stateside when Trump announced he'll be ditching the iconic Lowry paint scheme of Air Force One, it goes to show that the paint scheme on an emblem of national power can have quite the impact. I hope they put plenty of thought into it. But to play it on the safe side I can certainly see that a simple scheme like that has less likelihood of massively polarising opinion. In fact whoever did the mockup must be a fan of the Konrad Adenauer, the German executive transport aircraft.
REF:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Adenauer_(aircraft)

Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-21768063705_63d5f810c6_b.jpg
Definitely the inspiration for that mock up.

On a bit of a tangent, I've personally been a fan of the UK using an Airbus A330 MRTT multi role tanker transport aircraft for it's executive airlift function. I suppose it's the fact that tanker aircraft are of pressing need by the IAF and the Airbus has in multiple iterations of the tender won only to be typically left hanging by our defence mandarins. Considering appearing to be cost effective is pretty much always an easy win for politicians, I think having such a set up would be rather beneficial all round. I doubt "Air India One" or whatever the moniker ends up being for this new Indian executive transport is, ends up being needed all the time. So utilising a multi role tanker to move about when needed makes more sense in those occasions. Of course the issue here is just how reticent the bigwigs would be to having to fly in a tanker aircraft instead of a bespoke executive aircraft with all the bells and whistles it entails.

Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-new_raf_tanker_aircraft_voyager_at_the_royal_international_air_tattoo_fairford_mod_.jpg
So this is what the UK Prime Minister flies around in now. Would it really be that bad a look to see our Prime Minister flying around in one with IAF roundels on it?

Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-vip_interior_of_raf_voyager_2.jpg
The interior of the Voyager is modular but the refit done by the UK Govt cost 10m and ended up looking like this. Hardly uncomfortable for our leaders I think.

Finally on the VT aircraft registration moniker, I hardly think it's that big a deal. Sure if someone went digging they'd know what it stood for and they could be outraged, but in terms of the bigger picture of govt largesse or lack of, I think the real issue would end up being just how cost effective having bespoke Indian executive airlift aircraft is and whether there was a missed opportunity to for two birds one stone and meet that pressing IAF requirement.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 16:33   #13
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Default re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders

Not sure how to link to another thread but the general consensus is that the image at the very top appears to be a mock up that imo is heavily influenced in its livery by the Konrad Adenauer, ie, the German equivalent. I like the simplicity of it though so if that mock up is indeed a portent of how it would end up looking, it's a thumbs up from me.

Most executive airlift has moved on to big twin engines, I think they've gotten so reliable and extremely powerful that it's been enough to assuage concerns one could have about single engine failure being a critical emergency. Plus I suppose there's the overall cost argument to factor in as well. A big twin will be cheaper always compared to a similar sized widebody quad engine.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 17:49   #14
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Any idea what is the other aircraft registration?
VT-ALV "Punjab". The other one - VT-ALW was named "Himachal Pradesh".

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Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
The prefix 'VT' stands for Victorian or Viceroy Territory, which is the nationality code that each aircraft registered in India is required to carry. The code is generally seen just before the rear exit door and above the windows.

The thing is that the British legacy and denial/acceptance/twisting of events in Indian history has been milked for far too long by political parties and its leaders. If one were to ask them this - If V in VT is "Viceroy" and T is "Territory", then what is H in VH(Australia) or for that matter the second Alphabet in aircraft registrations of former Pre-Independence British colonies? They would be stammering for answers and look for answers by looking it up in an Alphabet Chart.

Speaking of Victor Tango, if anyone comes across this book pf the same title, do not forgo the chance to buy it. Mr Vijay Seth, as many would know, is well known and well respected Indian aviation historian & photographer. One of the first aviation themed books I got was his "Aircraft of the Indian Air Force 1932-1999".

The book is in a brilliant photo album format of modern Indian Civil Aviation- Boeing, Airbuses, ATRs, Q400s etc of various Indian airlines. It is a treat to go through the high res photos in this fairly large book, especially those brilliant Jet Airways/Jetlite/JetKonnect 737s and yes, I miss them.
Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders-20200603_165944.jpg

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Originally Posted by ads11 View Post
I had my suspicions about that photo too, given the myriad issues right now, a shiny new executive transport suddenly making it's first public appearance isn't exactly a good image to be projecting right now. But agreed with skanchan, the text looks far too sharp compared to the rest of the image.
I would anyday prefer the standard IAF livery sported by IAF's VIP jets over this, which anyway looks fake.

All white with two tone blue cheatlines running along the length of the fuselage with IAF roundels, finflash & IAF/BVS painted at its usual locations. It is simple & elegant. Or is this a pathetic attempt to get even with the Trump in terms of a different, non-standard livery on an aircraft meant exclusively for El Presidente?

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Originally Posted by ads11 View Post
So utilising a multi role tanker to move about when needed makes more sense in those occasions. Of course the issue here is just how reticent the bigwigs would be to having to fly in a tanker aircraft instead of a bespoke executive aircraft with all the bells and whistles it entails.
The average Indian politician would consider travelling on an aircraft like this a personal insult!!!! Look how the IAF's need for tankers is being dragged on unnecessarily. Jet Airways' A330s are rotting in India and they can easily be acquired for conversion into tankers, but then that won't fill some babu's pockets as shiny new acquisitions would!!!!

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Originally Posted by arijitkanrar View Post
I was assuming that Victor Tango and Victor Hotel were the pronunciations of VT and VH respectively in NATO Phonetic alphabet and not the other way around?
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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I don’t think it stands for Victor Tango. That is just how letters of the Alfabet are read out in the world of aviation.; A for Alfa, B for Beta, C for Charlie etc
Yes, I know about NATO Alphabetic Codes and it is probably incorrect of me make such assumptions But then does anyone have a better explanation for what V & T stands in VT for or for that matter V & H stands for in VH? I am all ears.

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Originally Posted by FrozeninTime View Post
Has change in name of cities in India bought any tangible benefits to citizens?
The best thing to do is to accept our past and strive for best without getting caught in political jingoism.
Rightly said. Playing with people's emotions using this for political gains has gone on for way too long. Nothing good ever came of it and yes, I see nothing wrong in retaining VT. Nothing is going to change or improve if VT is changed to something more "Indian" sounding.

Last edited by skanchan95 : 3rd June 2020 at 17:58.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 18:16   #15
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Yes, I know about NATO Alphabetic Codes and it is probably incorrect of me make such assumptions But then does anyone have a better explanation for what V & T stands in VT for or for that matter V & H stands for in VH? I am all ears.
.
Actually the term NATO alphabetic Codes is misleading. It was more ICAO and other organisations that did most of the work. It was just that NATO gave the last push.

I am not sure the letters stand for anything. Maybe we are overthinking this?
Look at the link to the wikipedia page I shared earlier. The letters versus the countries make no sense at all. Completely random.

E.g. The USA has N, the Netherlands has PH, Norway, Senegal 6V etc etc.

From a different page of Wikipedia on aircraft registration

Quote:
The first use of aircraft registrations was based on the radio callsigns allocated at the London International Radiotelegraphic Conference in 1913. The format was a single letter prefix followed by four other letters (like A-BCDE).[6] The major nations operating aircraft were allocated a single letter prefix. Smaller countries had to share a single letter prefix, but were allocated exclusive use of the first letter of the suffix.[6] This was modified by agreement by the International Bureau at Berne and published on April 23, 1913. Although initial allocations were not specifically for aircraft but for any radio user, the International Air Navigation Convention held in Paris in 1919 (Paris Convention of 1919) made allocations specifically for aircraft registrations, based on the 1913 callsign list. The agreement stipulated that the nationality marks were to be followed by a hyphen then a group of four letters that must include a vowel (and for the convention Y was considered to be a vowel). This system operated until the adoption of the revised system in 1928.

The International Radiotelegraph Convention at Washington in 1927 revised the list of markings. These were adopted from 1928 and are the basis of the currently used registrations. The markings have been amended and added to over the years, and the allocations and standards have since 1947 been managed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).

Article 20 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation (Chicago Convention), signed in 1944, requires that all aircraft engaged in international air navigation bears its appropriate nationality and registration marks. Upon the completion of the necessary procedures, the aircraft receives its unique "registration", which must be displayed prominently on the aircraft.

Annex 7 to the Chicago Convention describes the definitions, location, and measurement of nationality and registration marks. The aircraft registration is made up of a prefix selected from the country's callsign prefix allocated by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) (making the registration a quick way of determining the country of origin) and the registration suffix. Depending on the country of registration, this suffix is a numeric or alphanumeric code, and consists of one to five characters. A supplement to Annex 7 provides an updated list of approved nationality and common marks used by various countries.
So the aircraft registration number is (mostly) made up of a prefix selected from the country specific callsign prefix, which is regulated by ITU>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU_prefix

Since we have only 26 letters and some 200 countries there about my feeling is that a lot of pretty random stuff has materialised over the years.

I don’t know how the went about it, but I imagine it went something along the lines on how the American States agreed on their state naming convention. Admittedly a bit off topic, but very telling, and I think it is hilarious. I can just see such an international group of call sign guru’s going through the similar motion.

You will get an end result, but it will be pretty random!


Last edited by Jeroen : 3rd June 2020 at 18:22.
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