[V.Narayan]

^^^^^^
^^^^^^
Agree 101%. I can't speak for other countries but in our case these two 777's are a travesty of ego and pomp paid for by you and me. How did Mahatma Gandhi travel? Did he need to spend well over 1 billion USD to let his foreign friends know how important he was. We allegedly didn't have money to pay for rail fare for 10 million migrant workers but we have the money for this. When you are POTUS Trumpistan you need to travel in a 747 in the hope that your hosts will think of you less of the horse manure you really are. If you are Nelson Mandela you don't need to arrive in a $500 million carriage because your deeds and your character precede you.

As I've said earlier the 737s suited us well - good enough and not ostentatious. They can be upgraded for the range and are packed with ECM. But alas.

[dragracer567]

I see that there are two schools of thought - Jeroen suggests that world leaders fly commercial while Narayan suggests leaders choose less pompous planes.

I’d have to stick with Narayan sir on this one. World leaders, especially those of the G20 states don’t travel alone but with a huge entourage of press, business leaders and security etc. So, when you fly commercial, you are severely inconveniencing your fellow passengers especially with the security. Offcourse, the next question is why don’t they just charter planes? As the British found out, it was cheaper in the longer term to get a plane of their own than chartering planes from BA and VA.

Now, does it make sense for leaders to fly around in wide body Jets? I don’t know! Maybe Trump, Boris, Macron, Merkel and Modi would be happy flying in a G650 or even a Piaggio Avanti!

EDIT: now that the B777s are already here, best thing to do is to use it till the end of its life rather than do something stupid like the Mexican president.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Why do we, apparently, insist our VIPs travel in comfort and luxury, whilst most of us when flying, reside in cattle class?

Why cant people who are paid through our tax dollars fly economy?

Jeroen

You won't even give them the option of business/ first? Sounds petty to me!

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Agree 101%. I can't speak for other countries but in our case these two 777's are a travesty of ego and pomp paid for by you and me. How did Mahatma Gandhi travel? Did he need to spend well over 1 billion USD to let his foreign friends know how important he was.

The word you are looking for is vanity.
The optics are terrible.

But if this was the only criticism one can level, I'd say why just two, have three 777s.

When you are POTUS Trumpistan you need to travel in a 747 in the hope that your hosts will think of you less of the horse manure you really are.

One of Trump's leitmotif is how he, the great negotiator and savvy businessman and dealmaker, beat down Boeing's asking price.

If you are Nelson Mandela you don't need to arrive in a $500 million carriage because your deeds and your character precede you.

But one is not Mandela!
Emperors need new clothes!

As I've said earlier the 737s suited us well - good enough

But bumper sticker management says good enough enemy of great.

Sutripta

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

You won't even give them the option of business/ first? Sounds petty to me!

It probably is, but then again, I don’t get to fly business class anymore. In fact nobody does anymore. If I am lucky I get the odd upgrade based on my mileages and status. Or, and here is a thought for these VIPs, do like I do and pay the upgrade from your own pocket!

Jeroen

[mmxylorider]

TL/DR: This is probably a little off topic but I am personally glad to see these aircrafts being configured. Common man lifestyle and VIP lifestyle are not meant to be compared - hence the VIP acronym.

---

Some leaders choose to live the ordinary life and be with the people and some need the props to let the world know they've arrived. Each to his own but you have to understand the internal and external optics.

As I've said before, State leaders, especially of emerging economies, are making a brand statement just like corporations. Should a CEO travel economy rather than a charter or business class since as a stockholder, my EPS reduces? No, I would like them to be given all the perks to be at par with competing firms in our business. Same is true for the Indian PM. Recollect the recent snafu with Pakistan PM having transport issues and reaching out to a Middle-East state for an aircraft? I certainly would not want that for our leaders.

There's another thread around presidential vehicles. This is akin to saying, If the common man travels in an low end car, why do VIPs need the 7-series and the Range Rovers and not the Tata/M&M vehicles.

My last post on this sub-topic.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It probably is, but then again, I don’t get to fly business class anymore.

This sounds more like angst!

Sutripta

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

...But every other TDH VIP in politics deserves nothing more than the last row in Economy right next to the loo on a budget airliner.

Atleast this way, our planes/trains/buses will be maintained in good condition and the "highest" standards will maintained. Food will be good and service will be friendlier. Most important of all, punctuality will be maintained. Sorry for the rant of just another mango public! Why only planes, I feel they should travel within the city and within the country also using public transport. They should practice what they preach.

Funny enough that an entourage of 40+ travel in an 20+ year old gas guzzling, environment polluting Boeing 747, 7000 miles to just sign on dotted lines to save the earth from warming up!!
when corona pandemic has shown us that all this could happen via video conferencing and an engineering development called as digital signature, scan and Email. I guess I will stop before getting infracted for being too much of a mango public.

To each his own!

[Foxbat]

Looks like I was wrong about the pictures being fake, although they still seem to be altered or blurred in some places by me.

More pictures have emerged, don't think all of them can be fake.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Looks like I was wrong about the pictures being fake, although they still seem to be altered or blurred in some places by me.

That seems like Seattle Tacoma Airport? Going by the mountain range and possibly Mt. Rainier.

The Everett, Wash., facility is home to the 747, 767, 777 and 787 Dreamliner production lines

https://www.boeing.com/company/tours/

[airbus]

Indian team left for US to take delivery of one of the aircraft - News.

Aug 14 (ANI): Contingents of senior officials of Air India, security officers, and senior government officials have left for United States to accept the delivery of the Special Extra Section Flight (SESF) or VVIP aircraft Air India One.

[avishar]

VT-ALV spotted on Aug 11th at Fort Worth by Kevin Boydstan

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9815311

[travancore]

Sorry, but for the money, we could have at least got a more imaginative paint scheme.

Our Poseidons look smarter.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

TL/DR: This is probably a little off topic but I am personally glad to see these aircrafts being configured. Common man lifestyle and VIP lifestyle are not meant to be compared - hence the VIP acronym.

It is all in your head. How is an elected representative, elected to serve the public, paid for by public money in one of the poorest countries on the planet a VIP? It is subjugation, nothing else.

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

Some leaders choose to live the ordinary life and be with the people and some need the props to let the world know they've arrived. Each to his own but you have to understand the internal and external optics.

The optics are because you see them as such. You just called them VIP. Call them out for what it is and make sure it shows on the ballot paper or in our case EVM and see if they still travel like a king on my and your money.

Just because POTUS has it does not mean the Indian PM needs to have it automatically. If he makes India into an America, by all means, even China for that matter. A leader needs to set an example. The example being set here is that I will live at the expense of the republic, the republic which is mostly poor and is struggling for sustenance.

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

As I've said before, State leaders, especially of emerging economies, are making a brand statement just like corporations. Should a CEO travel economy rather than a charter or business class since as a stockholder, my EPS reduces? No, I would like them to be given all the perks to be at par with competing firms in our business. Same is true for the Indian PM. Recollect the recent snafu with Pakistan PM having transport issues and reaching out to a Middle-East state for an aircraft? I certainly would not want that for our leaders.

I am sorry but this just doesnt makes sense. Google or any xyz company is not going to invest in India because the Indian PM came in his own jumbo jet. That is not how capitalism works. Heck an order for two planes wont even have Boeing invest in India but Indian airline companies buying 100's of jumbo jets surely will. A company is a private enterprise so its a moot question how their CEO travels or how they burn their own money? The shareholders of the company though will have an opinion on the CEO if the company was making massive losses and he chartered expensive private flights for his travel.

How do you think Mr Narayan Murthy of Infosys travels?

[Cessna182]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

How do you think Mr Narayan Murthy of Infosys travels?

So glad that finally someone had the courage to call out this hypocrisy. In India, even people on Vande Bharst flights are struggling with 2x the fares at a time when many have lost jobsand are forced to return. I have nothing against the government in general, and I appreciate their infrastructure push.

However, I don't get why so much public money, which is more than ALL IITs, IISc and BITS research combined, has to be spent for a VIP plane.

For the folks claiming US president does so and we should too, get out of your on site perspectives. India is 20 times poorer than USA. It is 8 times poorer than China. The rural economy worsened in the last 5 to 6 years despite claims being made to the contrary. Wake up, smell the coffee and read news other than the fake news sites that are most popular in India. We are staring at a badly managed disaster.

The PM of an Asian country came to Singapore while I was there (the country is many times bigger than India in terms of per capita GDP) and all I saw was a convoy of cars for less than 5 minutes at a signal. No bullshit sirens, no "bandobast" etc. India has to develop and thr first step is to make these political representatives realize that they have accountability to the public. Sadly, a few brainwashed folks disagree, and give the government the courage to do what it does.

[mmxylorider]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

How do you think Mr Narayan Murthy of Infosys travels?

If you are thinking coach, you might find yourself grossly mistaken. I know for a fact some of the policies of certain MNC and senior leadership does not travel economy. It is purely a time, peer connect and comfort related aspect. CEOs charter planes all the times to show commitment to clients.

Countries are going that route of marketing themselves to get business and I personally see nothing wrong in that. My taxes are working towards making my country and my life better and as long as there is transparency in that I will support it.