[RohanDheman]

And VT-ALV is on her way home. Should be landing in Delhi by 3pm.



Cheers
Rohan

[sbanerjee]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Yes they are sitting here unused and deteriorating! Why should allegations of bribes cause all commercial contact to be stopped beats me as the only one who suffers is us (IAF in case of the EH101

I understand GoI recovered back most of the money paid by revoking the bank guarantees. Also, since the company was blacklisted and no vendor support, it is next to impossible to fly the choppers without vendor support. IAF had asked Augusta to take the choppers back, but they did not respond.

[AlphaKilo]

"Air-India One" has landed in IGI.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...?homepage=true

The custom-made B777 planes will be used for travel of the dignitaries only. The Centre has already initiated the process of divestment of its stake in Air India, which has a debt of over ₹ 60,000 crore. However, the process has been postponed due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

[mmxylorider]

Any videos of that landing at IGI? The second 777 one should be coming in a few days. Avid planespotters should try and see that one.

Also, reading the news, the call sign might be India One and not Air India One or Air Force One. I believe that is a good call in the semantics of things.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

Any videos of that landing at IGI?

Came across a video on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/sta...25268906590209

[skanchan95]

Air India's trademark Red "Palace Windows" surround around the windows (when this aircraft was in service with Air India in AI livery) has been painted gray!!!



A few shots of the interiors













This would settle the debate that these 777s would be operated by the IAF:

[Cessna182]

Just curious- is there any reason why such a large aircraft has to be used for the PM, when smaller private planes are being used globally by many corporates? I don't understand the aviation business at all, my knowledge is based on google searches, hence I request for inputs on correcting the following statement.

A good private plane can cost between 30 to 800 cr and many industrialists in India use these. Maybe the range is too low for international travel, but could fuel capacity enhancements be made for them instead of buying a billion plus dollar airplane? Especially at a time when even the armed forces and the air force are struggling to upgrade their equipment (India remains one of the few countries to still have Mig 21s).

[RM Motorsports]

The aircraft is equipped with an advanced communication system which allows availing audio and video communication function mid-air without being hacked. It is also capable of countering missile threats with its own missile defence system, called the Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures (LAIRCM) and Self-Protection Suites (SPS).

[mmxylorider]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

Just curious- is there any reason why such a large aircraft has to be used for the PM, when smaller private planes are being used globally by many corporates? I don't understand the aviation business at all, my knowledge is based on google searches, hence I request for inputs on correcting the following statement.

A good private plane can cost between 30 to 800 cr and many industrialists in India use these. Maybe the range is too low for international travel, but could fuel capacity enhancements be made for them instead of buying a billion plus dollar airplane? Especially at a time when even the armed forces and the air force are struggling to upgrade their equipment (India remains one of the few countries to still have Mig 21s).

There's a lot of equipment that needs to go be with them and such big airplanes with cargo carrying capacity suits well. In addition, there will be other officials, NSG team, media team. Would not be surprised if the bare minimum head count is 20. Further the 777 provides for an almost non-stop flight to most places around the globe.

[airbus]

Originally Posted by mmxylorider

There's a lot of equipment that needs to go be with them and such big airplanes with cargo carrying capacity suits well. In addition, there will be other officials, NSG team, media team.

Agree, there are certain requirements for heads of state. These planes are basically flying office cum residence of the travelling VIP. Lot of things need to be considered - safety, security, communication, comfort, range, etc.

[fhdowntheline]

I would still worry about the fact that it is a twin engine plane and not a quad. Single engine failure warrants an emergency landing . It does for the quads too, but with better margin of safety. They could have easily refurbished a couple of B 747-8s , or A340-500/600s , if not the A380 ( all of which would be available for a song).

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I would still worry about the fact that it is a twin engine plane and not a quad. Single engine failure warrants an emergency landing . It does for the quads too, but with better margin of safety.

If everything else is identical on a twin and a quad, the quad would be statistically safer. We discussed this a long time ago, no idea where. However, in practice it does not matter at all. In fact, there is no empirical evidence to suggest so.

It is all down modern jet engines being extremely reliable.

A twin engine can fly fine on one engine. It is only the press that would call it an emergency landing if it happens it needs to land on one engine. In fact most “emergency landings” as you will read about are no more than pre-cautionary landings.

If one engine fails, the aircraft is restricted on the altitude it can reach, so it must descent and at lower altitudes it is less fuel efficient. To counter the fact of having only one engine running, you also need to apply a small amount of rudder trim, which comes at a small fuel efficiency premium. .

So you are limited on altitude and on range. Obviously, with one engine only you still want to land as soon as possible. Depending on where you are on your route, you might decide to return, divert or so.

Jeroen

[fhdowntheline]

I mentioned this in the context of the strategic importance of the payload on these planes.
Imagine the head of state having to cool/ warm their heels while waiting for engine repair in a not-so-friendly area of the world. Yeah there’s ETOPS for 200 odd minutes and commensurate route planning, but better to limp home on 3 engines than get stuck with one.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I mentioned this in the context of the strategic importance of the payload on these planes.
Imagine the head of state having to cool/ warm their heels while waiting for engine repair in a not-so-friendly area of the world. Yeah there’s ETOPS for 200 odd minutes and commensurate route planning, but better to limp home on 3 engines than get stuck with one.

A couple of thought on ETOPS. ETOPS contrary to popular believe is not only for twin engine. Quads are subject to ETOPS too. (https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avia.../info07004.pdf)


Air India One is a 777-300ER if I am not mistaken? That means it has a 330 minute ETOPS. Yes, that is five and half hours of flying on one engine. And that is for planning purpose only! If you want, in the context of strategic importance, fly even further, you can of course. Five and a half hours of (legal) flying time is likely to get you out of Dodge I would think?

Check the performance of a 777ER on one engine against an 747 on three engines. Not that much difference I reckon.

The triple 7 is likely to outperform it on most aspects. The problem is that you are comparing an old plane with four relatively small engines to a modern plane with the most sophisticated, powerful engines known to man!

Jeroen

[mmxylorider]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I mentioned this in the context of the strategic importance of the payload on these planes.
Imagine the head of state having to cool/ warm their heels while waiting for engine repair in a not-so-friendly area of the world. Yeah there’s ETOPS for 200 odd minutes and commensurate route planning, but better to limp home on 3 engines than get stuck with one.

That is where the second airplane with prove useful. It can make a trip to get the VIP back while the earlier aircraft is repaired.

The range of the 777-3ER is only marginally more than the 747-400 (which we have) and at maximum capacity. The 747-800 has more but we don't have that aircraft. Using existing 77W which would operate at less than max weight will provide a much better non-stop capability.

It would have been a a steal to buy one of the 380 that everyone else is offloading, but it does not have cargo carrying facility and reconfiguring would have been quite expensive. In addition, it requires specifically classified runways to operate.

As Jeroen pointed out, ETOPS rarely figures since the reliability of engines today is so much more and for VIP flights, the routing will take this into account for possible emergency landing places.