[Rodie09]

We need not be drawing conclusions about the quality of safety in Indian railways based on this one accident, let the comprehensive reports come out.

Couple of points:

1. Indian railways has had a terrific safety record in the past decade or so. One accident should not take that credit away from them. The size of this network, and the number of passengers, freight tonnage, number of trains, total railway track length - these figures are astronomical. Even the most developed nations with their relatively puny network size have had devastating accidents in recent past. Indian railways do a phenomenal job at a fraction of the cost. As someone rightly said, there are risks associated with travel depending on mode of transport - be it road, rail, air or even space. We have seen accidents and failures everywhere. Please note this is not to undermine the loss happened here, it's just that we need to be cautious in coming to conclusions.

2. The progress towards advanced systems and modern technology is order of the day. Let us not say we should not do modernization because there is this accident. Accident is unfortunate and there will be lessons to learn. But at the same time we need to continue to march forward taking Indian railways to global standards.
Just for analogy, where people have complete power to take their own decision, is everyone going for a 5 start safety rated car only? There are thousands still who prefer features and comforts over the safety rating. Numbers show it all. Again, not undermining importance of safety and neither has railways done so in their pursuit for a modern set up.

Let's not draw our judgement on single instance.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

.
I hope there is an objective enquiry that gets to the root cause so that amends can be made in procedures, checks &balances and systems. .

I hope the railway ministry puts out a time-line of events, and the plan of action. There was a user on Reddit who talked about a survivor of the first crash walking to a nearby village to get help. The survivor did not know anything about the second crash which clearly seems to have happened after some time. I would much rather trust an official statement, than some YouTuber or Reddit user.

Originally Posted by Rodie09

Let's not draw our judgement on single instance.

I am not sure what international stats you are looking at, but there are simply too many collisions in India. We can't divide all stats by the total population, who don't even live near train tracks.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...646106710.html

[lapis_lazuli]

One more sorry outcome is the number of distasteful conspiracy theories being systematically floated on the net, for mindless consumption. Our priorities as a nation were never in place, at the right time.

If we look at it carefully, the number of people who actually can claim their compensation, is an abysmally low percentage. Is there an NGO who would facilitate such claims process for the needy?

This unfortunate event has also occurred at a politically incorrect time: every media commentator starts by saying "we don't want to make this political, BUT, Blah....<entirely political rant> "

Like another Morbi, or the just collapsed NHAI bridge in Bihar, let us leave it behind, and move on. We have a promotion and a higher job grade to run after. These accidents cannot happen to us, so let us not question the people responsible.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

Wondering how he should be feeling after this incident despite not being there.

Well, I've been taking an average of one overnight train journey a month for a few years now. Have one scheduled next week in fact, and am not worried at all.

This is a terrible tragedy. And a lot remains to be done in terms of safety. But I have no fears whatsoever, train travel is still one of the safest ways to travel in our country. Inter-city by car is far scarier to me.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

Scary to say the least. I recall a forum member Vigsom keeps travelling by train. Wondering how he should be feeling after this incident despite not being there. Just a month ago my family also travelled on the same route. I shudder to think of sending them again.

I don't think you need to be that worried. For example, there is a death due to a road accident every 3 minutes in India. This is as per reported official stats, reality may be even worse. That does not prevent any of us from going out on the road in our vehicles, by walk, public road transport etc. Also does not prevent most people from merrily breaking a bunch of traffic rules every time they step out.

The whole interlocking/point switching being talked about as a cause of the accident, probably millions of them happen every hour on the Indian Railway Network.

Of course, even one such failure due to what ever reasons is unacceptable due to the impact it can cause- As was sadly seen in this case, so it is definitely important that there is a detailed probe, actions identified and if there is a larger issue to address, it should be taken up and done.

[fhdowntheline]

Railways should be freed from the burden of operating passenger / freight services. It is one of those institutions which has been responsible for creating and perpetuating the bureaucratic lethargy that pervades the society still. Technically , it is still a great system, but needs to relinquish control over the service aspect soon.
Keep control of the track and allied infrastructure, have an independent network control agency and let private operators run the trains. Establish a DGCA kind of regulatory agency as well to maintain focus on Safety. Right now everything rolls up to the Railway Board.

[dust-n-bones]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Railways should be freed from the burden of operating passenger / freight services. It is one of those institutions which has been responsible for creating and perpetuating the bureaucratic lethargy that pervades the society still. Technically , it is still a great system, but needs to relinquish control over the service aspect soon.
Keep control of the track and allied infrastructure, have an independent network control agency and let private operators run the trains. Establish a DGCA kind of regulatory agency as well to maintain focus on Safety. Right now everything rolls up to the Railway Board.

This must be a real hard-sell given that railways provides endless possibilities of doling out favour to the faithful - employment, transfers, contracts, real estate.
Railways is not even a PSU. Counterpoint: IRCTC and RITES, both quasi-independent in the railways 'services' space.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

I am not sure what international stats you are looking at, but there are simply too many collisions in India. We can't divide all stats by the total population, who don't even live near train tracks.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...646106710.html

What was that about lies, damned lies and statistics? This is from the very article you have quoted:

The latest statistics mean that on average, 32 people lost their lives every day in these accidents in 2020. The report also shows that 8,400 or about 70 per cent of these railway accidents last year took place as passengers either fell off the train or came in the way while crossing the railway track.

While unfortunate, those 70% are certainly not "collisions". Just pointing this out because the report can otherwise in this context be viewed wrongly.

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by Rodie09

We need not be drawing conclusions about the quality of safety in Indian railways based on this one accident, let the comprehensive reports come out.

Firsts things first regarding your points put.

1. Indian railways has had a terrific safety record in the past decade or so. One accident should not take that credit away from them.

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/lis.../100712104.cms

A report from Times of India regarding the major accidents in the last ten years. Almost 750 people died and more than 1000 injured if one adds up the casualties during the last decade. Who is answerable to those poor souls ? What terrific safety record are you talking about ? These are the accidents which found their way into the news, there are innumerable train related accidents which don’t find a mention in the news even.

A look at the general coaches and even 3 tier AC coaches now is enough to make someone sick where people just cram every little space available. Reservation or no reservation. But people still avail the train since that’s probably the only cheap option available to them. A look at how the dead people were being thrown in to the vans in the recent tragedy was enough to make me cry.. this was a human who was alive some time back and after being dead, the basic dignity was stripped off like anything. And you are talking of a terrific record ??

Accidents have happened before and it will happen again. Finding the cause and ironing out the flaws is the way to go forward.

One accident as you mentioned should not take away the credit from the railways- well, tell that to the ones who have lost their near and dear ones and are seeing them being thrown like insects into the van !!

Just for analogy, where people have complete power to take their own decision, is everyone going for a 5 start safety rated car only? There are thousands still who prefer features and comforts over the safety rating.

The people have choice of choosing a car, the people who board the train don’t have a choice. Trains are the people mover. Indian railways is the largest employer in the world but that is for a reason. At least it used to be for a reason. Now that we hear that lakhs and lakhs of position are lying vacant, I am not so sure. Why are loco pilot posts lying vacant ? I have shared a Report in my earlier post in this thread about the same already.

Modernisation is good and a welcome step but at what cost ? Most of the trains I know now run on schedule and that’s an improvement. Stations are being kept clean and that’s an improvement. But the tracks are still the same. Introducing a Vande Bharat great but so is the need for safety. Reaching a destination safely I guess is more important than reaching quickly !!

Oh by the way, there is hardly any difference in a Vande Bharat or the previously introduced Shatabdi Express but then who cares when optics does the job well !!


Unfortunately, this accident will also be a footnote in some days. Already many theories are being floated and talks of CBI enquiry is also doing the rounds. So anything but the enquiry is I guess, on the RIGHT TRACK

[swami69]

In spite of all the advancements in technology, this accident has proven that there is still a chance of either a human, electronic or mechanical error which could prove fatal. I think as a future SOP, when ever there is a passing siding/loop line occupied, the mainline trains have to pass with a much slower speed. I agree this will reduce the average speed of the trains, but, considering the potential of point errors, an additional travelling time is justified.

In this particular case, the station master could have been pro-active and cautious, very well knowing that both the sidings were occupied and two super fast trains are approaching at a same time/crossing each other. But.....he would have thought it was normal.

Swami

[Senotrius]

Why are these kind of accidents lesser in South India? In Kerala may be cause the total number of lines is so less I feel( it's literally one major direction from north to the south). I cant remember a rail accident in this state in recent memory. But other southern states are larger. Does anyone have an explanation? Majority of accidents, like aviation accidents, are human error eventually.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by Senotrius

Why are these kind of accidents lesser in South India? In Kerala may be cause the total number of lines is so less I feel( it's literally one major direction from north to the south). I cant remember a rail accident in this state in recent memory. But other southern states are larger. Does anyone have an explanation? Majority of accidents, like aviation accidents, are human error eventually.

One probability is the density of traffic in North.

The corridor on which the Orissa accident happened is a high density one with a huge number of freight trains using it as well. There is a lot of wear and tear on equipment and tracks compared to some other routes. From what I heard in some news interviews with former IR officials, the maintenance on these routes take a lot of manpower and are hence not a regular affair or as often as required.

[PreludeSH]

We used to see the levers that an operator used to use when changing the lanes. So now that is being done electronically. Does it indicate the successful change of lanes in any way ? Hopefully the malfunction or defect is also somehow indicated to the operator console. I have travelled very few times on trains and have seen them slowing down at such junctions usually.

For such heavy vehicles running on relatively thin lines, reliability has to be really great.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Senotrius

Why are these kind of accidents lesser in South India?

Originally Posted by tharian

One probability is the density of traffic in North.

Some routes like Howrah-Mumbai, Howrah-Chennai, Delhi- Howrah- these are extremely busy lines with high density of both freight and passenger traffic. Another reason, may be the most important one, is fog. During winters, a huge area of North-India goes under fog cover- even during the day. This is one of the deadliest causes of not just train, but also road traffic accidents. Trains running late by 8-10 hours become a common affair in these regions due to foggy conditions. Maximum trains running out of schedule is also a big job to manage, giving a possibility of room for errors leading to catastrophes.

Another reason for more accidents in North & Central regions can be attributed to naxals where sabotage is a way to make their presence felt. Feets of tracks bombed away frequently, fish plates removed coupled with other acts of sabotage are not uncommon in affected regions.

[fhdowntheline]

I am sorry to say this, but people cramming in general , 2nd class or even 3AC or any other coach also perpetuates the " poverty voyeurism" that Railways is so infamous for. This has to change eventually. It is the same sort of social indiscipline that we see on our roads with lack of helmet or seatbelt compliance or people carrying kids in laps , or wherever they can be placed, amidst farm animals and vegetable bales sometimes. There has to be some way of addressing this going forward.