[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by condor

Description by the passenger shows a very strong possibility of removal of fish-plate.

(no, I am not an expert. I am sharing what I have come across)

I was of the opinion that fish plates have been shed off long time back with the continuous welded rails or with thermite welding. We used to carry out Non destructive tests on those weldings almost 2 decades ago. At that time, There was a perennial problems of stealing the fish plates and bolts. Though expensive, it was considered the best solution by RITES. Hence the upgrade was suggested.

However, not sure if there was 100% implementation.

[udzgodfather]

Salute and heartfelt gratitude towards the people who took it as their own responsibility on how to help the victims and people in need.


According to Chief Secretary Sh Jena, 500 Units of blood was collected overnight.

[V.Narayan]

My condolences to the victims and their families.

I'm glad we are observing a degree of solemness on this thread. If this had been an aviation accident a hundred armchair experts would be expounding on their theories by now.

That's not just 233 dead and 900+ injured but around 1200+ families that have been hit to a greater or smaller degree.

I hope there is an objective enquiry that gets to the root cause so that amends can be made in procedures, checks &balances and systems. I hope we don't end up with another CYA departmental enquiry where the dirt is swept under the carpet.

[epiccross]

Originally Posted by MyLife_MyCar

It is easier said than done. Even with emergency brakes applied, trains take about 2-3 minutes on average to stop (depends on speed of train and gradient of the tracks).

Oh, I wasn't talking about that, but rather about how this happened in the first place - like the signal/clearing the track and so on. At the very least the second crash should have never happened right?

Only after a proper investigation, we will know what was the root cause and what could have prevented this accident.

Agreed, I'm waiting for this too. The second train crash makes this absolutely shocking and difficult to even accept.

Having said that, there is no foolproof mechanism to prevent such incidents in future. That's an unrealistic expectation!

Nothing in the world is 100% foolproof. Derailment (?) & hitting the train followed by a second crash means something is terribly off. This is what bothers me a lot. Could it be because of railways being understaffed and overworked? Or could it be some infra related issue? Railway department has a lot to answer here, it's hard to consider this as one of those "freak" accidents. But yes, lets wait for the official version first.

[BoneCollector]

This is a horrific accident that has happened.

What I've come to know is that the goods train was on the loop line and Coromandel Express was supposed to go through the mainline. There has been some grave error due to which the point was set to loop for Coromandel Express instead of mainline. Was this due to a human error or electrical error (points are operated electrically) or a sabotage angle, only a thorough inquiry would help. The Coromandel Express derailed due to this and hit the goods train and it's bogies were scattered along the up and down lines. And as fate would have it, the Yeshwantpur Howrah Express was zooming down on the other line. Apparently the last bogies of Yeshwantpur Howrah Express were derailed due to the crash of Coromandel Express. Basically wrong place, wrong time and it didn't give any chance to anyone.

I hope a thorough inquiry is done and we get to know the exact cause that led to this major accident.

Om Shanti to the departed souls.


Edit-

As per this report available, this could be a case of sabotage. If it is sabotage, it needs to be thoroughly probed and perpetrators brought to fore.

Link

Originally Posted by binaiks

The SMVT-HWH Superfast (not Duronto) had already almost cleared the station by then .

Yes. You are correct as per this report shared here.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by epiccross

it's hard to consider this as one of those "freak" accidents. But yes, lets wait for the official version first.

Exactly, this cannot be accounted as a freak accident.

There must have been lapses in the department. That has to be found out and responisiblites fixed and corrective measures taken. Only then these kind of mishaps can be averted.

My sympathies to all those who lost their family members and to those injured.

Hope they get adequate relief to rebuild their lives.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by BoneCollector

.. And as fate would have it, the Yeshwantpur Howrah Duronto Express was zooming down on the other line. Apparently the loco pilot of Duronto did not get any time to react and that train also crashed onto the already wrecked mass of metal. Basically wrong place, wrong time and it didn't give any chance to anyone.

The SMVT-HWH Superfast (not Duronto) had already almost cleared the station by then - had the loco crashed into the wrecked mass, images would have shown another crumpled locomotive - that wasn't the case.

Basically what happened was the SMVT-HWH superfast had cleared almost 75% of the length by the time Coromandel derailed. The coaches of Coromandel, which had derailed, went and pushed out the last two coaches of the SMVT-HWH Express. A good number of casualties were from the General coaches of both the trains.

[condor]

Per initial Joint Investigation report,

" ...signal was setup for the UP Main line as per SM panel - but the points were set to UP loop line. "

> Either Solenoids malfunctioned, or it was a deliberate act.

Originally Posted by NomadSK

I was of the opinion that fish plates have been shed off long time back with the continuous welded rails or with thermite welding. .

How would you then allow for flexing due to heat in summers ? @Bone collector has already shared the report above.

[ABHI_1512]

Absolutely heartbreaking accident and I can’t even wrap my head around this monumental accident which resulted in the loss of so many lives. In today’s age and the amount of technical advancements we have made, this kind of accident is simply awful.

The videos of bodies lined up in the school compound near the accident site is enough to make you sick. One account from ground zero made this observation and that is truly sad. My heart goes out to the people in this hour of grief.



My condolences to the families who have lost their dear and near ones. Someone should be made accountable for this grave tragedy, investigations should be done properly and reasons found out and corrected but as always, I have my doubts that we will probably never get to the root of the problem. Why I am saying so ? Because of this report which was published just two days back before this unfortunate incident happened.

Overworked pilots

The Railway Board recently took up the issue of loco pilots being deployed over and above their prescribed working hours resulting in a threat to the safety of train operations. Going by the rules, duty hours of the crew could not exceed 12 hours under any circumstances, said the official, who did not want to be quoted.

But the shortage of manpower had resulted in many zonal railways asking loco pilots to be on duty beyond the stipulated duty hours. For instance, in the South East Central Railway, the duty hours of loco pilots who were deployed on duty for more than 12 hours in March, April and the first half of May this year stood at 35.99%, 34.53% and 33.26% respectively.

Unsafe conditions

The Railway Board took a serious view of this violation of rules and went on record saying that these long duty hours on a regular basis were a matter of grave concern as they grossly violated the rules and could lead to very unsafe conditions, the sources said.

The report has put grave concerns out in the open and is a mind numbing read if one can see what happened just two days after.

The entire report is here for the members to have a look:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le66915585.ece

I sincerely hope that at least someone fixes the responsibility/ accountability after this monumental tragedy. The families deserve the answers for losing their dear ones in this ghastly way.

Praying for the departed souls, this is no way to go.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Absolutely heartbreaking accident and I can’t even wrap my head around this monumental accident which resulted in the loss of so many lives. In today’s age and the amount of technical advancements we have made, this kind of accident is simply awful.

Saw some of these images & videos on Twitter. It wasn't easy to watch, probably less so for those who were present. Human psychology means that it's easier for us to empathise with one or two deaths, when you've deaths as a group, it just becomes a statistic. But these people are mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, husbands, wives, best friends or lovers for others. This is apart from people who lost their limps, got disfigured etc. many of them will probably lose their livelihoods and the paltry 50,000 rs from the government will barely make a difference. It's really hard to imagine.

That said, I noticed in many of these videos on twitter on how the bodies kept in the school weren't even covered properly and they were basically thrown onto the back of tempos to be transported (too graphic to share). Sorry to say, the value of human life in India is still very low.

Also, hate to be pessimistic but most of us would forget about this like we forgot about the bridge collapse in Gujarat while any faults from the administration or at the political level will be swept under the carpet. Only aviation accidents tend to get fair investigations in India, I assume due to strict international regulations and presence of foreign agencies like the NTSB - harder to swipe under the carpet.

[udzgodfather]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Human psychology means that it's easier for us to empathise with one or two deaths, when you've deaths as a group, it just becomes a statistic.

Sorry to say, the value of human life in India is still very low.

“The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic.” ^ Stalin

As rightly said by Stalin, the death, the loss, the pain will just water down to be a number for the masses but it will be a life full of pain and agony for the ones who suffered through it.

I hope the quick response team will be quick enough to reduce the no of lives lost as minimal as possible.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Only aviation accidents tend to get fair investigations in India, I assume due to strict international regulations and presence of foreign agencies like the NTSB - harder to swipe under the carpet.

NTSB is a US only organization. It has no authorization beyond that country. Incidentally it covers all public transport in US, not just aviation.
A life is a life, whether the person pays 100000 to sit in a business class or 1000 to sit in Second clas 3 tier or 200 in a State transport bus. Unfortunately in India, aviation is perceived as an elite mode of transport and does not the get political attention . But it is also the riskiest mode of transportation from survivability standpoint , and consequently, technology has been developed over decades to focus mostly on Safety and Efficiency, even at the cost of speed( r.i.p Concorde) and comfort ( the economy class passenger seat format is essentially the same since the 40s). In the quest to achieve efficiency and volume for the railways over the years , perhaps safety is taking a back seat. Ironically though if they have bullet train routes , they will get enough attention and investment to ensure safety simply because whats the fun if you cant operate at 200+ kph?

[Hayek]

Quite tragic. Boggles the mind that we can have such a terrible points / signalling failure in 2023. 30 years ago, I had worked on SCADA systems as part of an engineering project - these systems are designed with multiple fail-safe interlocks. I would assume that modern signalling systems on busy main line should have the same features. Mechanical failure can happen - but a high speed train being led onto a loop line at top speed is something else

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

NTSB is a US only organization. It has no authorization beyond that country. Incidentally it covers all public transport in US, not just aviation.

If the aircraft involved in the accident is a Boeing or anyother US made aircraft or if the aircraft has a US made engine, then the NTSB has to be invited by default. Believe it’s an ICAO rule but not 100% sure. Exceptions are when the accident happens in a hostile nation like Iran. Same with Airbus where the French BEA is invited (since the final assembly is in Toulouse, France).

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by condor

How would you then allow for flexing due to heat in summers ? @Bone collector has already shared the report above.

Thanks for pointing to the report.

Also for the query you have put up, Destressing of the rails are carried out at rail neutral temperatures. Expansion joint still exist called as "breathing length" are at the end of the welded rails, which expands/contract on account of temperature variations in different zones. Hence in short, the thermal stresses which are created in summers/winters, are engineered to transfer the load to the precast concrete sleepers and the ballast.