[PreludeSH]

In China, they are mentioning this accident and saying India with modernization of the infrastructure needs to also modernize its people.

There are some ways of looking at it and it does appear that people are the bane in our road/rail networks and in how they function, primitive/corrupt etc.

[OffRoadFun]

First of all, deep condolences to those who lost their dear ones, NO ONE deserves this.

The tale of our railways is a tale of inertia, lethargy and a vicious cycle of populism and resultant lack of safety. Some of the points below are shameful.

* Due to populism, the rail infrastructure is stuck in past. Consider this, more than 80% of the network was developed by British. In 75 years, we could not add much. Our population grew 4X since independence but we added not even 25% to the rail Network. Adds to density on existing tracks.

* Safety upgrade. What is that? Railway has been run by cheap politicians interested at most in cuts and may be a divisional railway office or a new train in their constituency (Remember Ram Vilas Paswan who opened one in his). No safety upgrade. With raising the fares considered anti-poor and resultant little capital budgets, the system is rusted. In some of the trains, there seems to be NO difference in coach from what it was twenty years ago. The wagons look so outdated.

* Notorious for being one of the largest employers in the world, employees are lethargic, lazy to be honest with no accountability. Thousands of lives lost in accidents in last many decades and may be not even a few TENS of employees lost their jobs. The compensation to the victims should be from those made mistakes, there should be persecution for criminal negligence and heads should roll for every accident, no some ex-gratia payment to kins of those died. SOMEONE MUST BE HELD ACCOUTNABLE FOR EVERY ACCIDENT. Alas, the union is too strong in railways.


Here is the vicious cycle. The common man is made to believe raising railway fares is anti-poor, passenger rail operations are actually in loss even after that, the unions at railway see any accountability from employees as anti-employee, capital investments in upgrade/safety are low. Politicians pander to these sentiments and the whole system is rusted. And once in a while, with inevitable law of probabilities, such accidents strike and (many) poor people lose their lives in such heart wrenching accidents.

And this is not just railways. A year back there was a news (in Economic Times) that some higher up officeres in DGCA (Dir general of Civil Aviation) got bogus flying certificates for their relatives and had them installed as pilots in domestic airlines. I am scared sometimes even flying wondering what if the pilot is one of those. Corruption hurts everywhere.

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

In China, they are mentioning this accident and saying India with modernization of the infrastructure needs to also modernize its people.

There are some ways of looking at it and it does appear that people are the bane in our road/rail networks and in how they function, primitive/corrupt etc.

Hate to say, what Chinese are saying is not entirely false (though they are just saying this with a glee to put down India).

We need introspection.

[AutoNoob]

What is the ‘interlocking’ system in Railways, a change in which led to the Coromandel crash?

Source: Indian Express

Interlocking in railway signalling systems is a crucial safety mechanism used in the operation of train movements on railway tracks. It ensures that train movements continue without any conflicts with each other, preventing accidents.

There are three main components that comprise an interlocking system: the point, the track occupancy sensing devices, and the signal. The Interlocking system coordinates the functions of these three components to control train movements.

What is the function of each of these three main components?

* Signals (which are lights of green, red, and yellow colour) are installed along the tracks to indicate the status of the track ahead.

* Track circuits are electrical circuits (also known as track-occupancy sensing devices) that detect the presence of trains.

* Points allow trains to change tracks.

And how do the points work?

The points (also called ‘switch rails’) are movable rails that guide the wheels of a train towards either a straight or a diverging track. They are typically placed at the point of divergence of two tracks going to different directions. Once a direction of a train is determined, the point gets locked at a particular position. This means that once a direction is set, the point cannot budge until the train has passed.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I am sorry to say this, but people cramming in general , 2nd class or even 3AC or any other coach also perpetuates the " poverty voyeurism" that Railways is so infamous for. This has to change eventually. It is the same sort of social indiscipline that we see on our roads with lack of helmet or seatbelt compliance or people carrying kids in laps , or wherever they can be placed, amidst farm animals and vegetable bales sometimes. There has to be some way of addressing this going forward.

With due respect, I disagree with your post; except for the last line.
Something to address the issue is always welcome but social discipline as seen on the road is not comparable to a cramped or overcrowded railway coach. Because for some, this is the only option. I hope you will not disagree with me if I will cite the example of office goers in Mumbai local trains. Will you still call it "poverty voyeurism" or we can let them off because they are white collar people?

Fortunately, we belong to the class where a few thousand rupees does not matter as much. Case in point, many times when there is a waitlisted railway ticket showing up, a lot us end up booking a flight, even if the travel was short. But there is a large population for which Rs. 10/- is also something considerable. Railways is the last resort for travel- for these people. There is a reason why general fares have not been increased or have been deliberately kept low. Also, 3AC or even sleeper coaches are not exactly overcrowded. They generally fare people as per their capacity of 72 or 64, as the case may be. Yes, sometimes local crowd may get into sleeper coaches for short distances, especially in the day time, but for a 3AC coach, it is not exactly a regular occurrence. There is a possibility that people like me and you are travelling for recreational purpose, for a vacation, or for something which is not urgent. But these people mostly travel to get done their basic needs of life. There is often no other option for them. Even as I type this after such a horrific accident, such people in same huge numbers would still be flocking today's train, to reach out for their livelihoods.

A viable alternative for such underprivileged people is still far far away, since even middle class and people who can pay are facing several infrastructure issues on a day to day basis in various realms of life. Due to this, I don't see rapid relief coming. Thanks for being patient with me. If I have misunderstood your post or intent, my apologies.

Regards,
Saket.

[efgritesh]

I am wondering if we cannot get something like an ADAS for trains as well.

From feedback i have gathered, adaptive cruise controls works very well even on Indian highway with lack of lane discipline and missing lane markings.

I can only think of the breaking distance as something that would make it difficult to implement in a LOCO, compared to what we have in CARs. And Cars in ~20L range are getting it now a days, so it should not be a big deal budget wise.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by efgritesh

I am wondering if we cannot get something like an ADAS for trains as well.

From feedback i have gathered, adaptive cruise controls works very well even on Indian highway with lack of lane discipline and missing lane markings.

I can only think of the breaking distance as something that would make it difficult to implement in a LOCO, compared to what we have in CARs. And Cars in ~20L range are getting it now a days, so it should not be a big deal budget wise.

You dont have switches that change the track towards another track in roads.

In this case, the goods train was moved to loop line and the switch was done to allow the main line to go straight ahead. Only that the switch did not actually switch to main line, but just indicated so which gave green signal to the coromandel express.

Moving at 130 (max speed at that point) and switching to loop line suddenly caused the derailment. Not sure anything could have prevented this.

KAVACH does function like ADAS in that it senses a train on the same track either moving towards or going slowly in same direction. It does it much early compared to ADAS since trains cannot stop like cars.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by Senotrius

Why are these kind of accidents lesser in South India? In Kerala may be cause the total number of lines is so less I feel( it's literally one major direction from north to the south). I cant remember a rail accident in this state in recent memory. But other southern states are larger. Does anyone have an explanation?

Smaller Network, much less congested as compared to some of these high utilization corridors, much lower average speeds due to the topography could be some of the reasons.

Some element of luck also I guess. There is a general joke that runs around that trains in Kerala are made up coaches that have completed a lifetime in more premium zones.

Recently saw a tweet about how several popular and important trains run with coaches from as far back as 1999. These include the Trivandrum-Shornur Vanchinad express (tweet has an image) and one of the oldest and most popular train on the Southern Railway Network, the Mangalore-Chennai Mail. Just imagine. Coaches from 1999

[Senotrius]

The general joke is kinda true. We do get old rolling stocki n Kerala . Blame all the successive local govts till now for this.

So the current possible explanation for the crash is possible failure of 'points' in the interlocking system and lack of oversight over the same. Thanks for the picture explanation above.

[Arun_S]

Originally Posted by saket77

Fortunately, we belong to the class where a few thousand rupees does not matter as much.
Regards,
Saket.

Sir, you have captured the real essence of railways on your post.

In my college days, during festive time i myself have travelled in unreserved coaches. Within minutes the tickets will be over. Buses were less, so only option is to travel in these unreserved coaches, either travel in them or sit all alone in hostel.

There was this Mangalore mail derailment in 2001, did it stop me from using this train, no I still went ahead and used it.

[Fillmore]

Slightly off track question.
Do Loco Pilots now wear seatbelts while operating the Locomotive ?

At least they would be much more safer when wearing seatbelts, given that the chances of a Locomotive withstanding a crash is far higher than the carriages given their build quality and weight.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

I recall a forum member Vigsom keeps travelling by train. Wondering how he should be feeling after this incident

Thank You so much for remembering me, and me using this mode of travel often. The Firozabad accident in 1995 involving the Kalindi Express and the Purushottam Express and the Gaisal accident in 1999 involving the Brahmaputra Mail and the Avadh Assam Express were rather bad. In any journey taken immediately after these incidents, I'd always be concerned that the journey should be free of mishaps. The times I've been nervous have been

1. in the air, when the aircraft encounters severe turbulence and/or the Captain announces asking cabin crew to return to their seats
2. on board high speed trains, when the coaches shake violently at night especially when changing tracks
3. in buses when an odd swerve or a sudden braking maneuver wakes us up

As Rajeevraj has pointed out (quoted below), life carries its risks, and we only hope and pray that our journeys are safe.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

death due to a road accident does not prevent any of us from going out on the road

Absolutely.

[OpenRoads]

May the souls of those who died in this unfortunate disaster rest in peace and the loved ones get strength during this difficult times. I cannot comment on the reason/cause however I do wish the ones responsible for this are brought to justice.

Beside this tragedy, one thing which was very shocking is how the airlines doubled/tripled the ticket rates for these routes overnight due to high demand. I was thinking what if there is a law or policy which prohibits any private organization from profiteering during any disaster/calamity. Ideally there should be subsidized tickets for the families in distress or at least few extra flights enabled so that the ones in need can reach their loved ones.

Who can pass a bill or even bring it up? And how low a company can stoop to make profits? Where are the moral ethics or moral compass of a company to make profit in such a situation.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by OpenRoads

Who can pass a bill or even bring it up? And how low a company can stoop to make profits? Where are the moral ethics or moral compass of a company to make profit in such a situation.

That moral ship has sailed away long time back. On these lines, how can a private hospital have a proven treatment for a potentially fatal illness of an infant, deny admission? Its hard for the govt. to regulate private entities to this extent and also make progress as a free economy.

The only option is to realize railways are the backbone of our country, and build some redundancy, safety measures, and improve the quality. Privatizing railway operations, in the name of competition is certainly not going to fix anything. We will another profiteering sector, similar to the airlines.

Originally Posted by noopster

While unfortunate, those 70% are certainly not "collisions". Just pointing this out because the report can otherwise in this context be viewed wrongly.

I certainly noticed that context. Sure, I concede they are not deaths by trains colliding. I still feel these many deaths still need analysis and issues addressed within the railway system as we get our govt. to prioritize expenditure in this sector. I am not sure what the solution for people falling off or dying on the tracks is, I sure hope they are not all suicidal. I am hoping railways would know the answers, and with prioritization of resources, it can be addressed.

[Lalvaz]

Very tragic accident, my prayers are with the departed souls and the ones they leave behind. The scale of this accident has left us all stunned.

Hope this is a wake up call for our government and our bureaucrats to take modernization and maintenance for our critical infra on a war footing.