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View Poll Results: Do we need bridge technolgies before completely switching to EVs?
Yes 134 51.74%
No 103 39.77%
Not sure 5 1.93%
Put EVs aside, we need Fuel Cell EVs! 17 6.56%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20th January 2020, 21:29   #16
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

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Originally Posted by DarthVeda View Post
you would want to go to himalayan range in a fuel car (mostly diesel) and pollute it at the source of all things?
A pertinent question and frankly I don't have an answer to it. My selfishness to explore remote places had taken an upper-hand when I typed the previous post. But what I actually meant was that I would like to have some sort of backup power along with an electric drivetrain for emergency situations. That can be any type of fuel.
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Old 20th January 2020, 22:50   #17
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

we have all been there, and i wasn't blaming as such with my statement, just that sometimes, we forget what's at stake due to our selfishness, till i saw that video, i never thought of the effect vehicles have at high altitude, just hope the damage isn't irreversible.
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Old 21st January 2020, 00:46   #18
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Forget India, Mid Westerns in the US can't really use EVs. Not everyone has over $60k to spend on a long range EV. EVs are still expensive for most of the common folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Surprised that a majority of BHPians have voted for "no".

Electric cars are a pipe-dream in India and it's still a looooooong time before they become widely acceptable, available & affordable (i.e. the three As ). On the other hand, a "bridge" technology like proper hybrids can be implemented tomorrow....
The entry level EVs in the US (like Chevy Bolt) costs $36k. Converted, that is INR 25 lakh. Most cars sold in India are between INR 5-15 lakh. We're lagging 20 years compared to the USA. Hybrid sales picked up after the late 90s. I think cars that are proper hybrids should be allowed huge tax breaks in India. They should ensure a minimum distance covered in EV only mode.


Also, I've a feeling that EVs are also bridge tech before we get to FCEVs in 25-30 years. Just like how Lithium is produced today, I think Hydrogen can be easily produced 25 years from now.
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Old 21st January 2020, 01:52   #19
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Voted, "YES". As much as I may be known to NOT be a fan of Suzuki, even I would consider it adventurous to discount the opinion of the car-maker that sells half of Indias' cars.

Like Crude prices are controlled by OPEC, Lithium price is going to be controlled by countries like Indonesia. A direct shift to EVs, will require large scale increase in production capacity of Lithium and as long as demand for Lithium stays very high, prices will stay very high.

If the developing economies choose Hybrid as a 20yr stop-gap, it'll give time for improving production of Lithium and help drastically reduce price of Lithium over a longer term and also gradually reduce the dependency on crude.

One post earlier said that Toyota wanted to earn from regular mechanical servicing. Pls ask any owner if it is so. Agree parts may be expensive (although priced on-par with segment), but servicing a Toyota has NEVER been expensive, world-over.

At a time of economic slowdown, businesses need active participation of government in easing business hurdles, sometimes that includes deregulation. Economy simply cannot afford to ignore industry leaders.
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Old 21st January 2020, 02:03   #20
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Voted NO.

The main aspect to EV is not just in the battery cost, but in the thermal management system. This is why Tesla is being treated so well in China despite China having a huge local EV manufacturing capability.

I really^2 believe India should move towards EV at the absolute earliest to enhance our capability & IP in developing the thermal-management tech and related tech for all EV vehicles which in itself will be a HUGE asset as we neither have resources of Crude nor Lithium to fall back on.

Moreover moving to EV will improve asset utilisation wherein it is seen that most vehicles in India are used FAR FAR lesser than their mechanical capability. So EVs will be used within the city for daily commute, whereas Long Distance commutes can be done by hiring ICE cars.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 21st January 2020 at 02:13.
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Old 21st January 2020, 03:36   #21
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

I think it good to take small steps towards achieving something rather than take-up a bite you can't swallow. A proper hybrid will be like the first step towards an alternate powered vehicle. An alternate powered vehicle need not be an ev only, we might even discover some fuel which is even better than electric power. Probably a nucler powerd vehicle might come up if mankind finds a way to control and harness its power safety.
Again, most of the major discoveries were accident, and so can be the case here as well. But we need to start the journey, don't we bhpians always say, a journey is more/equally enjoyable than the destination.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 21st January 2020, 04:03   #22
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Default Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely swi...

What else can you expect from India's largest assembler, wholesaler, distributor and retailer of automobiles? They are phenomenally best at that.

But they can't design or engineer anything worthwhile that'll move the automotive scene to the next level. So obviously they are scared of anything that'll change status quo. From the MPFI days to now, their approach has been the same. Crib and moan and arm twist the government to delay progressive innovations.

Last edited by kiku007 : 21st January 2020 at 04:09.
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Old 21st January 2020, 09:07   #23
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Voted Yes. I still believe instead of pure EV, we should have hybrid or plugin hybrid cars first, which will eliminate the range anxiety. Unlike developed countries where people have multiple cars per household, many Indian families rely on single car, which is used for daily commute and occasional long trip. EV makes sense as second car for commute alone, but only a few can afford a second car which cost more than 10 lakhs.
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Old 21st January 2020, 10:51   #24
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Surprised that a majority of BHPians have voted for "no".
At the risk of going off topic, that's probably because there's some kind of trust deficit with statements made by Maruti. From some unwarranted statements on safety, to fear mongering on BS6 cost increases, to statements on millenials, there is probably a feeling that when they say something - it is mainly to benefit their bottom line and not for the larger good. Stock holders are not complaining though (yet!).

So when they say "right transition from conventional ICE to fuel-efficient alternate powertrain technologies before we switch to EVs completely" - it probably means that they see better growth *for themselves* in hybrids, and not because hybrids are necessarily better compared to EVs in the larger good.

Last edited by PearlJam : 21st January 2020 at 10:56.
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:17   #25
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Voted "Not sure" as

(a) I don't believe present EV technology involving Li-ion batteries to be the end-state. Disposing off the battery pack itself would prove a huge challenge post adoption of EVs on a mass scale.

(b) The charging infrastructure still relies on electricity generated largely by burning fossil fuels, which hardly qualifies as a clean process.
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:38   #26
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Yes, hybrid WAS a bridge technology but the time for hybrids are over now. We have moved past the phase where hybrids were considered sufficient. EVs are here to stay and with batteries that keep getting better and charging speeds going up, I predict we'll have a 15 lakh car (in current prices) which can go 450 KM in a single charge and charge within 10 mins before 2025 (and I'm being very conservative here). So, my answer is a resounding 'NO'.

Dear Maruti, if you can't catch up, it's your problem. If Tata and Mahindra can do it, why not you?
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Old 21st January 2020, 11:51   #27
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Voted for Yes. Infact, I would say that a range extended electric vehicle (REEV) is the need of the hour. It will essentially be an electric car with an on board generator to charge the batteries. In such a model, you gain the efficiency of the EV while having a backup for long drives. Forget even long drives, even in cities, with a lack of charging infra, such cars would fare well.

A REEV will also give cost synergies as it will enable smaller batteries to be installed (say 100 km range) and a super efficient engine tuned to generate electricity. With charging infra playing catchup, it won't be feasible for a jump to all-electric cars in my opinion. For public transport, fleet taxi, local goods carriers etc., it might work out, but for personal vehicles, it will take a long time for EVs to become primary vehicles.
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Old 21st January 2020, 12:05   #28
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

EVs will never gain mass popularity UNTIL the charging infrastructure matches the reach & convenience of traditional fuel pumps. Solution? Make two charging points per fuel pump compulsory. If assured of reliable charging facilities there's no reason why I as a customer will not catch the EV bandwagon. Companies like Maruti can only do so much, but push for better infrastructure has to come from the government.
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Old 21st January 2020, 12:23   #29
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

I feel that all public transport urban vehicles, buses, cabs, rickshaws, school vans, and small goods carriers like Ace, Piaggio Ape should be compulsorily EV by 2025. This will help establish infrastructure.
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Old 21st January 2020, 12:44   #30
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Default Re: Maruti says: Look for alternate powertrain technologies before completely switching to EVs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelguy View Post
At this pace, Maruti Suzuki will launch its first practical fully electric car after other manufacturers would have figured out how to put a miniature nuclear fusion reactor in their cars with no need for charging/fueling, plus the car along with powering itself will also power your home.

Sorry for the exaggeration, but why the heck is Maruti a leading carmaker in India? To dump decades-old automobile technology at exorbitant prices on hapless Indians? I saw real hybrid vehicles running on common road cars in USA in the year 2007. In 2020 Maruti is planning to bring the hybrid tech. What a shame!

There is no point going in for bridge technologies because the EV industry has matured enough to become mainstream. The only missing piece of the puzzle is the charging infra. If all carmakers come together and put up this infrastructure, EVs will take off without any need of intermediate complicated tech like Hybrid. And I don't expect that Maruti Suzuki will be on board with those carmakers who will enable the charging infra.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
Japanese government is pushing for Hybrid because going to BEV means massive job losses in Japan with makers of engine components, transmission components, spark plugs, clutch, filters etc or anything related to I.C engines going out of business. So Maruti is just repeating what Suzuki and other Japanese makers are saying. None of the japanese makers are really interested in BEV and they are clearly lagging in EV behind China, US , EU and South korean makers. Nissan leaf is now dated and like Ghosn said no innovation or new technologies are happening in Nissan.

Hybrid means they have all the moving parts of engines plus more electronics and complexity = even more money to be made in service and spares. So both the mechanical industry and electronic industry makes money.
Totally agree on this, because Japanese economy depends on ICE tec, customers are stuck with ICEs and its pollution. Auto industry is in a cusp of a tech revolution and Japs are acting silly and ignoring the inevitable paradigm shift in the industry. Just like NOKIA ignored Android. They will pay a heavy price.

Last edited by manjunathkl : 21st January 2020 at 12:57.
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