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Originally Posted by GoBabyGo Hi shyampsunder - Thanks for your detailed information on EV batteries. Since you have mentioned in your Comet EV thread that LFP batteries have hardware & software combinations, I am asking out of curiosity, can a EV manufacturer downgrade EV battery charging cycle or life via software update. I am asking because I have heard cases when after a software update on mobile phones, battery drain very fast (heard in OnePlus phones a lot + Xiaomi phones also). By any chance can a EV manufacturer play around with battery through software update. For reference after XUV4OO launch Tata upgrade their Nexon EV Max battery range through some software update. Can they downgrade battery range also through software update.
My another question is, since EV has less maintenance cost per service, what is the business model of EV manufacturers. I don't see most ICE or EV mainstream manufacturers making huge profit by selling cars, but maintenance & services give them majority of their revenue. I will be happy to correct myself if my assumptions are wrong. |
Hey GoBabyGo, happy to chime in with my thoughts around these
In a software-driven car, whether it is ICE or EV, the manufacturer can make changes to the car in many ways. Just like post Dieselgate, VW started pushing software that reduced car performance, EV manufacturers can also do a few things.
1. They can increase/reduce the performance of the car by regulating the amount of peak power that is sent to the motor.
2. They can increase/reduce the charging rate of the battery by regulating how much DC power the car can accept from chargers.
3. They can also update the Battery Management system to do more aggressive cooling/heating as well as increase/decrease the reserves on the battery which can affect the displayed range of the car.
What they cannot do is change the cycles of charge a battery can take because it is a physical property that has more to do with the battery chemistry than software.
Now the next logical question is what if car manufacturers start intentionally downgrading their cars? While it is a theoretical possibility, we have only seen car manufacturers improve range by tuning the BMS and motor based on real-world data that they are seeing. I don't think any EV or ICE manufacturer will intentionally degrade their cars and risk losing their goodwill among their users.
You are right that service revenue is very less on EVs, that's one of the reasons the ICE OEMs dragged their feet on EV adoption till they were forced to react due to Tesla. Tesla has class-leading Gross Margins and this should mostly be the direction the industry will head in.
Existing ICE dealers dependent on service revenue will have to adapt because apart from the EV powertrain not needing much in terms of maintenance, even consumable parts like brake pads last for much longer because of regenerative braking.
Maybe we will see more upselling in terms of software features like ADAS and connected car tech to maintain some recurring revenue throughout the life of a car? Tesla has also gotten into insurance by leveraging the troves of data they collect on their cars, that could be another path worth considering as well. Whichever way you look at it, the power of dealerships in the EV world is significantly diminished.
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan Yup they did. A 10 year 2.4lac km one at that.
That's because they do not need to as everyone will buy the ICE car anyway as long as it has a good reverse camera and apple car play. Warranties are honestly over rated in my personal opinion. Benelli offers a 3 year unlimited km warranty on their bikes while Suzuki offers a 1 year 12000km one on their access does that mean that Benellis are more reliable than the Japanese?
If I am to understand things, EV manufacturers ensure as little battery degradation as possible through optimization of the charging process and cooling. I have personally seen the effects of battery degradation in the real world; a 20-30 percent loss in range after 10 years can sometimes equate to more than the numbers suggest since noone wants to be running on low charge at the end of the day. |
Apologies, didn't know about the 10 year warranty on the Powershift transmissions. From the limited reading that I have done, it looks like it caused massive losses to Ford, and rightfully so? The warranty did protect the customers right?
My point on warranties is a little different, if the same manufacturer is offering a 3-year warranty on product A whereas 8 years warranty on product B, the probability of product B's reliability being high is a near certainty. An upstart may choose to gain market share by offering loss-making warranties but not established companies like Mercedes, Tata and Hyundai.
What range you need is closely tied with the charging infra you have for long drives, the charging infra we will have a decade later will be at least 100X better than what we have today, so I am happy losing 20% range, I can easily make it up with the better charging infra. The range within cities is anyway meaningless beyond 200 KMs for 99% of the car users.
But yes, it's sort of a bet that India and the world will have significant adoption of EVs in the coming years. It's a bet that I am willing to take and put my money on it but I can understand if someone else doesn't.