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Old 26th May 2023, 17:16   #31
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

I am aware that the OP plans to keep the EV for long. But how's the resale market for EVs as opposed to the equivalent ICE models of a similar vintage? That too considering (almost) a third additional acquisition cost upfront
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Old 26th May 2023, 18:39   #32
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

However counterintuitive it may sound, but an EV doesn't help you save money.
The difference in prices of Petrol and EV counterparts is atleast 4 lakhs or even more.
Acc to your calculations, you would be saving about 11000-2500= 8500 rs every month if you buy an EV over a petrol car.
The Extra EMI on 4 lakhs would be approx 8000-8500 for 5 years period. So basically you are even for the first five years and you may save some money from sixth year onwards,if any.
At the end of 5 years, your car odometer would be approx around the 1 lakh kms mark and the cost of batteries and uncertainty about resale value will negate any savings whatsoever. Over and above, Evs are still not a fuss-free fill-it, shut-it, forget-it type of ownership.

Also, since you drive a hondacity, i dont think you would be very comfortable in a small car like tiago or punch for a long time.

in my Opinion, Best is to buy a Nice diesel car.
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Old 26th May 2023, 19:55   #33
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Nexon Prime EV owner on this side. My other car is a Honda City.
2 years ago, we got the Nexon mainly for city drives and to do our bit for the environment. Itís been an absolute joy owning this car. Right from the maintenance to the performance, itís always ticked all my requirements. The charging infrastructure has been improving, this has encouraged us to take it for long highway runs too.

Now coming to your case, your daily running is 65kms which means youíll not have to slow charge more than 3 times a week making it convenient.

My recommendation would be to stretch your budget and go for the Nexon EV Prime XM variant as you plan to keep your car for a long period of 10 years.
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Old 26th May 2023, 20:55   #34
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

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Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
should go for Tata EV (Tiago / Punch) or wait for another year or so for more EVs from other manufacturers
Get yourselves a Tiago EV, it is amazing VFM. If you need solid comfort, interior space, and ability to tackle very bad roads, extend your budget and get a Nexon Prime EV (you don't need Max for city runs). I am using one for more than a year now and very happy with it.
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Old 26th May 2023, 21:21   #35
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

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Originally Posted by car-dent View Post
However counterintuitive it may sound, but an EV doesn't help you save money.
The difference in prices of Petrol and EV counterparts is atleast 4 lakhs or even more.
Acc to your calculations, you would be saving about 11000-2500= 8500 rs every month if you buy an EV over a petrol car.
The Extra EMI on 4 lakhs would be approx 8000-8500 for 5 years period. So basically you are even for the first five years and you may save some money from sixth year onwards,if any.
At the end of 5 years, your car odometer would be approx around the 1 lakh kms mark and the cost of batteries and uncertainty about resale value will negate any savings whatsoever. Over and above, Evs are still not a fuss-free fill-it, shut-it, forget-it type of ownership.

Also, since you drive a hondacity, i dont think you would be very comfortable in a small car like tiago or punch for a long time.

in my Opinion, Best is to buy a Nice diesel car.
Hi car-dent, this will be company car (I am entitled to one) and will not be on loan. Similar petrol vs diesel car price gap is 1.25 lacs in budget segment and 4 lacs between petrol to EV (in case of diesel vs EV it is 2.75 lacs). I live in NCR so ban on diesel car can happen anytime after 2025 (or may be some restrictions). You are right that after driving City, it is difficult to drive these 1.2L NA cars. I have test driven all 1.2L NA cars available and never want to drive them, they are so lethargic to drive (compared to City). That's why EV. Drive an EV (Tiago for reference) and you will not even like to drive Honda City, EVs are so good to drive.

Just try to find out resale price of a 10 years old hatchback (costing around 11 lacs), covered some 2 lacs km, I don't think you will get more than 2.75 lacs to 3 lacs at best (if Maurti's best selling) else you may not even get 1.50 to 1.75 lacs. Even if an EV scrap or exchange value is 50k to 75k, it is more than enough because during the 2 lacs km drive, I would have recovered my cost.

I am not bothering about battery degradation or battery failure because even ICE cars can also fail & we have examples of ICE cars engine failure in this forum itself.

I don't think people would like to go for battery replacement after 8 to 10 years, even if battery replacement cost come down to say 2 lacs for 30kWh battery, because car would be too outdated at that time to spend that much money (unless it is expensive one say MG ZS EV or BYD Atto3)

Last edited by GoBabyGo : 26th May 2023 at 21:24.
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Old 26th May 2023, 21:29   #36
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

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Originally Posted by Auto spawn View Post
Nexon Prime EV owner on this side. My other car is a Honda City.
2 years ago, we got the Nexon mainly for city drives and to do our bit for the environment. Itís been an absolute joy owning this car. Right from the maintenance to the performance, itís always ticked all my requirements. The charging infrastructure has been improving, this has encouraged us to take it for long highway runs too.

Now coming to your case, your daily running is 65kms which means youíll not have to slow charge more than 3 times a week making it convenient.

My recommendation would be to stretch your budget and go for the Nexon EV Prime XM variant as you plan to keep your car for a long period of 10 years.
Hi, I am waiting for Punch EV and hoping that it's 24kWh variant (if available) will cost 9.99 lacs or 10.50 lacs for one above base model. I don't have budget to go for Nexon EV Prime. It will be solo driven car so I am fine with modern & small footprint of Punch, compared to Nexon.
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Old 26th May 2023, 21:47   #37
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

EV owners - have you guys baked in the cost of battery replacement in the long term ownership cost? My excel mind refuses to buy an EV because (1) it needs 40k of running in city to cover just the upfront higher cost (Tiago petrol vs. Tiago EV). 40k just in city will take 6+ years for me, (2) the battery replacement cost comes in at 8 yrs. If I include 40% of the vehicle cost as cost of battery replacement then it is a no brainer. EV's are never gonna beat a petrol car on the cost front, neither in 5 yrs or in 10.

How do you guys/gals make the jump? Honestly, 99% of India isn't rich enough to buy a city only car. So, there goes the stick on 200km range and poor charging infra.
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Old 26th May 2023, 22:27   #38
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

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Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Hello Everyone,

I am looking for a second car for my office daily commute (65km per day). The car will always be driven solo (99.9% times) and once in 6 months or a year I may have to drop back one of my colleague, but that is rare. This is my experience over the last 5 years in my current job. My legal retirement is 10 years later and hence I am taking 10 years life of my second car which I am planning to buy. My current monthly expense on fuel is Rs.11000/- and If I buy EV, it will be reduced to around Rs.2500/-.

My existing car is 5 years old Honda City VMT (covered 63000km), which I will continue to use for social gatherings and long distance travel and will keep it for next 10 years too. My budget for new car is 9-12 lacs onroad Delhi / Noida. My requirement is automatic and I am okay with sedan or compact SUV. I am mentally prepared to sell / scrap both my cars after 10 years from now (at the time of my retirement) and will buy whatever suit me at that time.

Over the last 2 months, I have done some reading on EV in India and on the basis my reading in this forum, I found that most of the members are not very comfortable buying EV right now due to lot of uncertainties about longevity of EVs currently on sale and also about charging infrastructure. Beside, currently it is not very clear if current gen of EVs are niggle free in long run e.g. after 2 years from now (after covering 50k km or more).

However, I have done some excel working comparing EVs with almost similar sized & priced Petrol AT cars which confused me more.

If I go basis excel sheet, for strictly city drive buying an EV make sense due to cost I save, if I keep the EV car for longer duration eg. 10 years. The current gen EVs may look outdated after 2 years or so, but that is the case with ICE cars too.

Frankly I am confident about the longevity of the EVs on sale in India right now. I feel that Tiago EV, Nexon EV, MG ZS EV etc. will last 2 lacs km easily without any trouble. Charging at home is available and there is no issue in getting public charging within NCR so charging my EV will never be an issue.

I am currently waiting for Punch EV launch and after discussing my close friend who run a Tata showroom (in some other city), he is not sure if Punch EV will launch so soon (I am expecting July 2023 launch).

Since Team-BHP is read by millions of people, I would like to have BHPians opinion whether people like me who want to buy a second car for home for strictly city run (& within budget of under 12 lacs), should go for Tata EV (Tiago / Punch) or wait for another year or so for more EVs from other manufacturers. Frankly I am not expecting major EVs from other manufacturers before middle of 2025.

Dear Moderator - Please merge this thread with relevant thread, if a fresh thread on this topic is not required

PS - Prices mentioned in attached files are taken from carwale.com and Delhi onroad price as per carwale.com website.
I just bought the EV Max and itís amazing how similar your buying predicament is to mine.

Hereís how I went about it. I wanted to buy a car that will last me 10 years. The predicament was whether to buy yet another ICE car or switch to EV. Coming from a Civic automatic it became clear to me that I will not do a downgrade in terms of a) cabin refinement and b) ease of driving. I also wanted the choice to fit within a budget of 20L. I really didnít put total cost of ownership as a criterion because that always muddies the water.
My choices zeroed down to
1) Nexon EV Max
2) Hyundai Verna Automatic
3) Honda City automatic

I skipped the hybrid bandwagon because all hybrids compromise boot space (hyrider, cityÖ) I also skipped the Skoda Kushaq and Taigun as I did not want to choose from stables that have 1% market share. Iíve had enough with my Matiz and Opel purchases and wanted to play it safe.

Hyundai Verna was very tempting. Definitely an upgrade to my ageing 2007 Civic and still keep me in Sedan category. City seemed like a downgrade from a Civic and quite frankly the Honda story in India is only going south.

That left me with the Nexon EV. Gave me the best of both worlds - a) a proven platform which has done duty in ICE format and continues to sell in droves and b) an EV setup that met my requirement of range, cabin refinement, ease of driving and appealing to my green leanings.

Now, having lived with it for 2 weeks, a lot of my thought process stands validated. The car is super refined ( remember, you have to go a segment or two up to see those refinement levels in the ICE world) it is super easy to drive and certainly most easy to charge and park at home.

After hearing your requirement I have no doubt in recommending the Nexon EV for you. Even if you choose the 30kw version you should be fine. Go for it!
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Old 26th May 2023, 22:27   #39
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaushikduttajsr View Post
EV owners - have you guys baked in the cost of battery replacement in the long term ownership cost? My excel mind refuses to buy an EV because (1) it needs 40k of running in city to cover just the upfront higher cost (Tiago petrol vs. Tiago EV). 40k just in city will take 6+ years for me, (2) the battery replacement cost comes in at 8 yrs. If I include 40% of the vehicle cost as cost of battery replacement then it is a no brainer. EV's are never gonna beat a petrol car on the cost front, neither in 5 yrs or in 10.

How do you guys/gals make the jump? Honestly, 99% of India isn't rich enough to buy a city only car. So, there goes the stick on 200km range and poor charging infra.
An Excel based approach to an EV will not work on the following points
  • Excel can/will not quantify the conveniences of an EV - Ease of driving, NVH, peppiness, convenience etc.
  • If you have low running in city, less than 1000kms a month, Excel will override EV every single time. At 1000k a month, over 8 years, it will be about 100,000kms on the odo. With a very very conservative saving of 7 rupees per KM, even going by current fuel prices, thats a minimum saving of 7lakhs.
  • Its been advised repeatedly, that an old EV battery wont be worthless at the end of 8 years. Heck even conventional 12V batteries get sold back for atleast 20% of the value of a new battery easily. Considering the kind of chemistry involved in new age EV batteries, i would wager an easy 30-35% of the value of a new battery for an old battery pack.
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Old 26th May 2023, 22:50   #40
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

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Originally Posted by coldice4u View Post
If you have low running in city, less than 1000kms a month, Excel will override EV every single time. At 1000k a month, over 8 years, it will be about 100,000kms on the odo. With a very very conservative saving of 7 rupees per KM, even going by current fuel prices, thats a minimum saving of 7lakhs.
Agreed. Infact, I'll discount the cost of electricity and say you save 10 per km, i.e. 10l over 10 years. However, you pay 4l+ as upfront EV premium and another 4l as battery replacement. Time value of money says, I rather pay later than today. Penny to penny, an EV is costlier or just at par as an ICE. I'm not a luddite, but if I'm not saving enough, I don't see a reason to put myself through the agony of range anxiety. I love roadtrips and can't put my kids in the car that can stop without a charger in site :(,

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldice4u View Post
Its been advised repeatedly, that an old EV battery wont be worthless at the end of 8 years. Heck even conventional 12V batteries get sold back for atleast 20% of the value of a new battery easily. Considering the kind of chemistry involved in new age EV batteries, i would wager an easy 30-35% of the value of a new battery for an old battery pack.
Agreed to this as well. But again, an ICE will probably fetch the same or higher amount at resale. So it's again, having a headache at the cost of driveability in the city.

Please don't get me wrong. I want to buy an EV but I'm unable to convince myself in the current day. Nexon has more horror stories than successful ones. So that doesn't help either.
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Old 27th May 2023, 10:33   #41
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

I remember when I bought my first bike in 1989 the price of petrol in chennai was Rs. 7.50 per litre and that of diesel was around Rs. 3 per litre. Then people started to look for diesel engined cars because of the price difference and so manufacturers started to make more vehicles because of demand for them. After that the prices of diesel was hiked and not it is almost equal to cost of petrol. Then came the demand for CNG vehicles and prices of CNG has gone now. Now it is the time for EV craze and once more EV vehicles are manufactured and sold I am sure that the government is going to hike to price of electricity per unit steeply as the consumption of electricity would increase manifold and so would the demand for it.
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Old 27th May 2023, 12:16   #42
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

To answer OP's question, i think u can wait for punch EV. If punch EV comes with a Nexon prime sized battery. It will be a very good proposition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaushikduttajsr View Post
Agreed. Infact, I'll discount the cost of electricity and say you save 10 per km, i.e. 10l over 10 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeboy View Post
price of electricity per unit steeply as the consumption of electricity would increase manifold and so would the demand for it.
Electricity is today sold at 8 rs a unit max with some state govts providing free electricity units as well.
10 years down the line even if there is a 100% hike. The running per km of EV today is at 1.1 Rs per km it will go up to Rs 2.2 per km which will be still lower than running cost of an petrol car (assuming the price remains constant)

Finally here is the news on how electricity prices as changing and energy from renewables sources are gaining a share. The news is from Finland - link

You can say no as much as u want. Electric vehicles are the present and that is why all manufacturers are investing heavily into it.
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Old 27th May 2023, 16:50   #43
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Re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

To the O.P., what they are doing to petrol should be a reason enough for you, or anyone in market for a new car, to buy an EV. Correct me if I am wrong but I think they have quietly switched from E10 to E20 petrol. Quietly, because, otherwise they may have to reduce price of petrol. Next year it maybe E30. Then E40, E50, E60....Without reducing prices. You can see a thread running somewhere else on teambhp on what it does to your petrol engines. They already messed up diesels with DPF. So, EV is the only option in my opinion.

I don't understand how 80-90 paisa running costs of EV is not enough for some people. Then there are these icings on the cake, 1. sports car like acceleration, 2. super-silence, and 3. single gear drive where there are no shift-jerks because there are no gearshifts. Just one long gear from 0 to all the way to the top. Like a plane on a take-off run.

I have seen Audis/Beemer owners who bought Nexon EVs as second car but started using Nexons as main car and their premium brands are just sitting pretty. Most of the naysayers are those who haven't driven an EV themselves. As someone above rightly said, once you drive an EV, all your calculation charts go out the window.
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Old 27th May 2023, 23:39   #44
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Re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

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Originally Posted by kaushikduttajsr View Post

the battery replacement cost comes in at 8 yrs. If I include 40% of the vehicle cost as cost of battery replacement then it is a no brainer. EV's are never gonna beat a petrol car on the cost front, neither in 5 yrs or in 10.
I don't know where this information that EV battery has to be replaced after 8 years came from. I've seen some videos of old nissan leaf owners claiming they still have over 80% of total capacity after driving for 7-8 years.
Maybe everyone mistakes warranty for replacement period.
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Old 29th May 2023, 11:23   #45
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Re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Hello All, thanks for your valuable inputs. I have gone through this thread very seriously and on the basis of suggestion by fellow BHPians and my own assumptions, I am planning to wait till October 2023 and then buy either Punch EV or sell my Honda City and buy MG ZS EV Excite variant. I find going for MG ZS EV more practical as my usage is 98% within city and 300km to 325km range is more than sufficient for me. My daughter going to be in job from next year and if she want, she can go for a cheaper ICE car later (AT only not MT).

The only mental block I have to go for MG (or any other China origin brand for cars) is government may interfere in their working and it is not going to be smooth for them to function in India.

I would like to thank everyone for their inputs in this thread.

PS - I am not bothered about resale value of my EV car after 10 years. Since my drive remain to be high per month, I don't see any logic of assuming resale value of a 1.50 lacs km to 2.0 lacs km driven car that too after 10 years or so. Interestingly I may get higher resale value of EV car compared to ICE car after 10 years if EV gets reasonable sale boost in India and battery prices come down to say Rs.2 lacs for 50kWh (in exchange of existing battery pack of the car).
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