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-   -   Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadgets-computers-software/93694-mirrorless-evil-cameras-2.html)

Sankar 31st August 2010 18:34

Sold my Canon 40D since it was not getting used as frequently as i'd like because of my not wanting to risk the gear because of certain limitations in lugging the camera around.

Wanted to buy a high end P&S which would allow easy handling yet give me manual controls, I had Canon S90 and G11 in sight. But then i stumbled across Olympus' new low end micro four thirds offering, the EPL-1. Although not as feature rich as a mainstream DLSR and not as user friendly (EPL1 lacks control dial, all you have is buttons) as my shorlisted Canons, i went for it mainly for its larger sensor (over S90&G11). Hope this camera get used by me as much as i'd like to due to its smaller proportions and ease of lugging.

Samurai 31st August 2010 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankar (Post 2050404)
But then i stumbled across Olympus' new low end micro four thirds offering, the EPL-1. Although not as feature rich as a mainstream DLSR and not as user friendly (EPL1 lacks control dial, all you have is buttons) as my shorlisted Canons, i went for it mainly for its larger sensor (over S90&G11). Hope this camera get used by me as much as i'd like to due to its smaller proportions and ease of lugging.

Aha! The very first m4/3 or EVIL camera owner on the forum.:thumbs up

Would love to hear your user experience.

Sankar 31st August 2010 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai (Post 2050414)
Aha! The very first m4/3 or EVIL camera owner on the forum.:thumbs up

Would love to hear your user experience.

I'm the first? Cool :D
Would post as soon as i get the EPL1, it would be with me by this weekend hopefully.

shajufx 31st August 2010 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankar (Post 2050425)
I'm the first?

I think you are :thumbs up. Many have eyes on them, but nobody has reported to be owning one so far.

navin 1st September 2010 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by shajufx (Post 2050451)
I think you are :thumbs up. Many have eyes on them, but nobody has reported to be owning one so far.

Glad someone took the plunge. Which lenses did you get?

I have debated getting a E-PL1 and 14-150 zoom (to cover 28-300) instead of a a super zoom like the Panny FZ38, Canon SX20, etc...a combo such as this would cost about $1000. What stopped me was the poor AF performance esp since I shoot kids and animals. I am now hoping that Oly corrects this in their E-PL2 (a flip screen would be a bonus).

Oly is a much un-appreciated company. I tried their super zoom (SP-560) a few years ago. It was pretty fast, offered a lot of control and had good IQ yet did not create the buzz that Sony, Panny, and Fuji do.

Skidrow 1st September 2010 12:25

there's an absolutely amazing ownership thread on the EPL1 over at JJMehta forum by Arnab aka naturecloseups. Well worth reading - especially as Arnab has bought the optional EVF too. SOme great shots there.

Sankar 1st September 2010 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin (Post 2051100)
Glad someone took the plunge. Which lenses did you get?

I have debated getting a E-PL1 and 14-150 zoom (to cover 28-300) instead of a a super zoom like the Panny FZ38, Canon SX20, etc...a combo such as this would cost about $1000. What stopped me was the poor AF performance esp since I shoot kids and animals. I am now hoping that Oly corrects this in their E-PL2 (a flip screen would be a bonus).

I went with the Kit lens, 14-42. I don't know if i'd need a zoom lens righ now, so holding back on the zoom. 14-150 would've been ideal for me, but its not cheap. Panny 45-200 and Oly 42-150 (with adapter) are more approachable price wise.

navin 1st September 2010 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankar (Post 2051344)
I went with the Kit lens, 14-42. I don't know if i'd need a zoom lens righ now, so holding back on the zoom. 14-150 would've been ideal for me, but its not cheap. Panny 45-200 and Oly 42-150 (with adapter) are more approachable price wise.

Actually B&H has a Panny GH-1 (tilt and swivel LCD, full HD video, etc...) with a 14-140 lens available for about $1100.
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 Digital Camera (Black) with DMC-GH1K -

This is about the same if one got the E-PL1 and Oly 14-150 lens.

THe GH1 is a year older than the E-PL1 but I dont think it gives up much in IQ or features.

Sankar 1st September 2010 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin (Post 2051566)
Actually B&H has a Panny GH-1 (tilt and swivel LCD, full HD video, etc...) with a 14-140 lens available for about $1100.
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 Digital Camera (Black) with DMC-GH1K -

This is about the same if one got the E-PL1 and Oly 14-150 lens.

THe GH1 is a year older than the E-PL1 but I dont think it gives up much in IQ or features.

Yes but i was talking about the Panny 14-150mm lens alone as an aftermarket buy, which is $763 :-( But Panny 45-200 M4/3 lens costs less at $275 and gives more zoom range if carrying two lens is not an issue.

But EPL1 as a second camera for DSLR owners, the option 2 might not be too enticing.

navin 3rd September 2010 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankar (Post 2051751)
But EPL1 as a second camera for DSLR owners, the option 2 might not be too enticing.

for DSLR owners a 18-200 lens could save them the cost on an extra body.

Samurai 15th September 2010 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by shajufx (Post 2070806)
Olympus was my first priority when I thought about moving to a DSLR after using an Olympus film camera (IS-500) for 4 years .... BUT shots were always on the AUTO mode, never realizing the hidden technology and beauty of this gadget. I still regret about those days, because I could have learnt the basics much earlier than a late start last year. I must agree that cam had the size and look of a DSLR and used to produce crystal sharp shots at any given situation.

I bought Olympus IS-3 (IS-3000) in 1993 when it was chosen as the camera of the month or year. It was a fixed lens SLR. Yup, I too used it mostly in auto not realizing the beast within. The photographs were so crisp, I didn't give it up until I switched to digital.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shajufx (Post 2070806)
Naturally my upgrade was leaning towards same brand, but I could not get any feedback here about this brand and its service. I think even today Samuji is the only person I know who uses this brand, and I believe you might have got it from your US days :).

Not really, I bought the E-500 in 2006 and E-3 in 2008, while I moved back from US in 2004. I am quite simply a fan of Olympus ingenuity in introducing new path breaking technologies into cameras.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shajufx (Post 2070806)
Unfortunately not a single studio accepted my fresh copy request in my vicinity last week (tried kodak kiosk, konica studio and instant print, g k vale, printo, local studio). Some of them plainly said 'NO negatives please', some of them said they have to print it, scan it and make multiple copies. I realized how the technology is taking over.

Exactly for that reason, I don't think I will be buying any more SLR cameras. My next interchangeable lens camera will be a EVIL camera.

But I am in no hurry, my E-3 will chug along for now. Not impressed with the current lot of EVIL cameras, let the technology mature a bit...

navin 16th September 2010 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai (Post 2070828)
Not impressed with the current lot of EVIL cameras, let the technology mature a bit...

First consider what you shoot (subject), in what conditions (low light, dust etc..) and what output you need (large prints for example).

Choose the lenses based on your subject and conditions - some like me need f/2.8 or faster lenses. Choose the system that has the lenses you need.

Then choose the body that works best with the lenses you have chosen and gives you the output you need.

Some like Rudra-da think is FF. They have spent 40+ years visualising/thinking in FF so will prefer FF all the time, besides FF gives them the resolution required for the big prints they produce.

Newbies like me on the other hand do not have those restrictions nor do we produce big prints (why i dont even shoot RAW or process the image in anyway) nor have the inclination or patience to process the image before viewing it.

The area of an EVIL/APS-C sensor is about 1/4 or 1/3rd that of a FF sensor but an EVIL/APS-C sensor is also 10x bigger than most P&S camera sensors. Here is an old article on this Digital Sensor Size

Then comes price. For example compare the price of a 5D II + 24-70/2.8 and 100-400/4-5.6IS vs a 50D + 17-55/2.8IS and 70-300/4-5.6IS

Sankar 16th September 2010 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin (Post 2071419)
The area of an EVIL/APS-C sensor is about 1/4 or 1/3rd that of a FF sensor but an EVIL/APS-C sensor is also 10x bigger than most P&S camera sensors. Here is an old article on this Digital Sensor Size

This is the main reason which pulled me towards EPL1 when i was eyeing a high end P&S. I don't regret the decision one bit. The larger sensor should help in low light compared to even the high end P&S.

Plus people won't have huge expectations from me & my cam when i pull out my tiny little P&S look alike DSLR and they don't mind even if i don't take crappy shots :uncontrol

Plus I like the look on their face when i say its a DSLR not a P&S :D

Only trouble i have now with the EPL1 is that the screen is a tad small, it would've been better if it had the EP-2's screen. The EVF accessory would be huge a boon, but its a bit expensive.

HellwratH 16th September 2010 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai (Post 2070828)
Exactly for that reason, I don't think I will be buying any more SLR cameras. My next interchangeable lens camera will be a EVIL camera.

But I am in no hurry, my E-3 will chug along for now. Not impressed with the current lot of EVIL cameras, let the technology mature a bit...

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin (Post 2071419)
The area of an EVIL/APS-C sensor is about 1/4 or 1/3rd that of a FF sensor but an EVIL/APS-C sensor is also 10x bigger than most P&S camera sensors. Here is an old article on this Digital Sensor Size

Then comes price. For example compare the price of a 5D II + 24-70/2.8 and 100-400/4-5.6IS vs a 50D + 17-55/2.8IS and 70-300/4-5.6IS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankar (Post 2071548)
This is the main reason which pulled me towards EPL1 when i was eyeing a high end P&S. I don't regret the decision one bit. The larger sensor should help in low light compared to even the high end P&S.

Plus people won't have huge expectations from me & my cam when i pull out my tiny little P&S look alike DSLR and they don't mind even if i don't take crappy shots :uncontrol

Plus I like the look on their face when i say its a DSLR not a P&S :D

Only trouble i have now with the EPL1 is that the screen is a tad small, it would've been better if it had the EP-2's screen. The EVF accessory would be huge a boon, but its a bit expensive.

I am a big fan of EVIL cameras especially the Olympus EPL1. Two reasons that attract me are the size/portability and the price. Price of the camera plus an adapter to mount some of the old gems that can be acquired at throw away price is just too tempting. Agreed that I might have to MF most of the time, but with enough frustrating experiences on field with a macro lens, I am ok doing it. Here's an on-going review of EPL1 by another person I admire a lot in terms of macro shooting and he has moved to EVIL camera recently. His logic is simple, digital backs are dispensable, so get the one that can mount all the gem lenses you have. Yes, AF might make a big difference and depends on the style of shooting, but for my usage, it seems kinda perfect. Here's the review,

Olympus PEN E-PL1 review diary

proton 3rd October 2010 22:03

First impressions of Olympus e-pl1
 
10 Attachment(s)
Just got my my Olympus e-pl1. In the course of testing Figo, Beat, Micra, Polo, City, Vento, Innova (how the thinking regarding requirements changed during the exercise!), I was missing my trusty Panny zs7 (hijacked by my eldest). While picking up eneloop rechargeables at a photostore (cheaper than the MO at Techenclave), I was surprised to see the e-pl1, and at a great price. Googled and found a comment on t-bhp about the online offer (lowest price worldwide!) Many thanks to Hellwrath and others. Visited Jayesh and found both India and Japan rep of Olympus at the new Oly counter. Showed them the online offer on my phone and got them to match the price. People who buy this will have different usage strategies. 1. Upgrade from PnS to Interchangeable lens cams. 2. Downgrade from heavy DSLRs to compact IL cams. 3. Lateral think/upgrade to a capable and VFM cam by going the unconventional route (see the thread on jjmehta forum... thanks again Hellwrath!) Bottom line, the best camera is the one you have and the one that can do the job. Aside from pure sports and other fast action shooting, this cam can do it all. Right now it has been hijacked by unworthy sons, but not before I fired off a few shots. The kit lens is a stonking performer and given a little stick, the Turbo Image Engine can give a full size cam a run for its money. Ooops, getting my terms mixed up: gotta remember that I'm reviewing a cam not a car... Ending with a test ride/shot I did on a Funduro, and as you can see, had to fall back on my phone cam.


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