[Akash.D]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

I think the decision is logically right. The freestyle is worth only if you go for the diesel or ground clearance is very important. You can also look into the Altroz XM too i guess if you like the cars looks. The money you save with Tiago top end can help a mid carlife upgrade later with new speakers etc.

The diesel is completely out of my budget. However, ground clearance is very much important since the roads have bad patches here and there and always under construction (getting converted into 4 lane). The difference in ground clearance between the two is 20mm I guess.

Speaking of the Altroz, I inquired with the dealer but they are not having the variant I wanted (XE + Rhythm pack). Besides, they said I had to wait for another 2-3 months to get the car. The ground clearance of the Altroz is also 5mm less than the Tiago.

[evil_grin]

Originally Posted by evilmessiah

The taxes and duties are obnoxious nowadays.

Though I hated driving an i20 (diesel and petrol), I can understand its appeal to a non-car guy. It's easy and forgiving to drive. Same deal with Verna. Found the handling to be loose, but it's really comfortable and spacious.

Adding to the topic: Why not a nice used Arrowshot Honda City if ground clearance isn't a concern?

Taxes are atrociously high. But they have always been so. And inflation hasn't been much higher in the last decade than the decade before that. I also don't blame car companies. They'll always try make as much money as they can. I suspect the reason for cars having gotten so expensive is the rapidly rising income in India in the last decade. That plus the rapid increase in our expectations from a car (read features).


The Elite i20 is adored by non car guys. In fact, even as a car guy, I actually like it a lot. I don't understand why other car lovers detest it so much.

The Verna, however, is downright scary to drive fast through corners.

The arrow City would have been a great choice. But his friend's running is too high for a petrol car. And there are way better engines in the market than the City's diesel.

[John316_WRC]

Originally Posted by Akash.D

The brain says buy the Tiago but the heart is still hooked at the Freestyle. I went for my brain and booked the Tiago and the finance deal is to be done in 2 days. What do you guys think - did I make the right decision?

Oh boy! The Tiago is a great car, but I would go for the Ignis sigma and add a infotainment system of my choice. Remember the Ignis is a 3star rated car (with dual airbags) & the motor is much better than the Tiago's. If I had to buy the Tiago, I wouldn't spend more than 6 Lacs on it and get the XT model, nothing higher.

Now the Freestyle on the whole is a better car than both the Ignis & the Tiago. Yes you'll be spending more, but if you try hard and bargain, you can reduce the difference even further. The petrol Freestyle is not as fast as the diesel, but trust me, it's no slouch. Also Ford service feedback has been great and in some cases better than Maruti as well.

Please listen to your heart, you won't regret it one bit!

[Akash.D]

Originally Posted by John316_WRC

Oh boy! The Tiago is a great car, but I would go for the Ignis sigma and add a infotainment system of my choice. Remember the Ignis is a 3star rated car (with dual airbags) & the motor is much better than the Tiago's. If I had to buy the Tiago, I wouldn't spend more than 6 Lacs on it and get the XT model, nothing higher.

Now the Freestyle on the whole is a better car than both the Ignis & the Tiago. Yes you'll be spending more, but if you try hard and bargain, you can reduce the difference even further. The petrol Freestyle is not as fast as the diesel, but trust me, it's no slouch. Also Ford service feedback has been great and in some cases better than Maruti as well.

Please listen to your heart, you won't regret it one bit!

I am afraid, it is too late. I have already signed the finance agreement and received the DD. However, I have not yet taken the delivery or made any payment.

Why is buying a car so confusing? .

[abhi_tjet]

Originally Posted by Akash.D

Why is buying a car so confusing? .

Don’t worry Akash. Tiago is an absolutely worthy product. It’s as premium as a small hatch back can be with a bang for buck.
Telling you since I own a Tiago amt which will turn 2 shortly.

Also, considering your location a Tata may be better than Ford.

[Akash.D]

Originally Posted by abhi_tjet

Don’t worry Akash. Tiago is an absolutely worthy product. It’s as premium as a small hatch back can be with a bang for buck.
Telling you since I own a Tiago amt which will turn 2 shortly.

Also, considering your location a Tata may be better than Ford.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I wanted a car that is safe, reliable, comfortable with relatively good if not exceptional driving experience. Tata Tiago fits the bill perfectly at 6.51 Lakhs on road. But, the confusion starts when I look a bit beyond and see those cars like, Ford Freestyle for e.g., which are just a little extra EMI away.
Also the Tata Sales people are doing their best to make me not buy their car by providing the worst possible correspondence and customer service. And the Ford people are still trying to convince me even after I told them I am buying a Tiago.

[John316_WRC]

Well if you've already signed the dotted line, don't worry! Like I said earlier, the Tiago in itself is a safe & a good hatch. Best wishes for your ownership. Cheers!

[abhi_tjet]

Originally Posted by Akash.D

Thank you for sharing your experience.
Also the Tata Sales people are doing their best to make me not buy their car by providing the worst possible correspondence and customer service. And the Ford people are still trying to convince me even after I told them I am buying a Tiago.

Some things will never change, I assume. Buying a Tata car is one of them. Experience was nothing good for me as well.
Regarding Freestyle, no doubt a good car, it has two main advantages over Tiago in my opinion.
1. Bit more spacious and
2. Better engine.

Tiago is better/equal in rest of cases, like safety, features, modern looks, reliability etc while being cheaper by a good margin.

All the best!

[tinshark]

Hello everyone, I am sure this is perhaps the most common kind of question around here (judging by the old threads). I am currently in the market for a car primarily to avoid public transport / taxis and for a short commute to office, general city use when the lockdown lifts.

I am trying to do this in a budget of 8 lakhs OTR (Thanks Bangalore!).

My key requirements:
1. Safe car.
2. Well equipped to a point. So that I don’t feel the need to upgrade in 4-5 years.
3. Relatively fuss free ownership experience. I like the idea of getting to know my car mechanicals very well and take care of it, but if I’m realistic I know I will not find the time and won’t enjoy if I’m forced to learn it.
4. I am a new driver and I think I’ll enjoy driving a manual based on my experience with bikes for 10 years or so in Bangalore. However, everyone I know has insisted on me going for an automatic considering Bangalore traffic.
5. A value for money buy. I feel cars are overpriced in general these days. On top of it when I see the OTR prices for places like Delhi this feeling worsens as I’m in Karnataka. So, I would like to feel I am getting a ‘good deal’

Considering these points, with great difficulty, I have narrowed my options to 2:
Tata Tiago XZA+
Maruti Ignis Zeta AMT

Their price is very comparable to each other although their pros and cons are quite different. I am slightly biased towards Tiago as it offers better value, but I’m apprehensive about the ownership experience.

Why not pre-worshipped?
I was open to this but it just stresses me out about the no. of unknowns when going for a used car. Also, since I’m new to this, unless I have someone to hand-hold me through the process I don’t think I would like to do this. Moreover, with the current pandemic I would not prefer stepping out and inspecting cars, meeting people.

Ignis Zeta AMT

Pros
Maruti service network and quality probably less of a gamble. At least there is more competition among the service centres.
Great 4 cylinder engine
Spacious interiors due to tall-boy stance(?)
Adjustable rear headrests
Split rear seats
Better resale value [Not important]
Push button start and keyless entry [Not important]

Cons
Flimsy Maruti build(?) and lower crash safety rating.
No adjustable driver seat height
More pronounced AMT head-nod(?)
No reverse camera [Important for a new driver?]
No touch-screen system [Not important]
No cooled glove box [Not important]
Ugly rear [Not important]

Tiago XZA+

Pros
Solid build quality (feeling) and great crash safety rating
Adjustable driver seat height
Improved AMT(?)
More powerful engine (but heavy car)
Touch screen system with great speakers [Not very important]
Rear parking camera [Important for a new driver?]
Auto folding ORVM [Not important]
Cooled glove box [Not important]

Cons
Gamble with Tata service
Rattles, niggles and other reported issues in older model (e.g. fuel pump issue)
3 cyl engine refinement (while improved won’t compare with Ignis’ 4 cyl engine)
No rear adjustable headrests
No split rear seats
No keyless entry or push button start [Not important]

Cars I didn’t consider
Hyundai i10 Nios: I felt it was expensive and also Hyundais tend to have a bouncy suspension and lifeless steering. Although this one probably has a great AMT.

Renault Kwid AMT: If only this car had a good safety record / rating. I would have gone for it even if the after-sales experience was questionable.

Hyundai Santro AMT: Similar reasons as Nios. Although its AMT is supposed to be good. I don’t know if it is so good as to overlook the other points.

Maruti Wagon R: This was the first car I considered but I didn’t like the interior quality and Ignis is not too far off in terms of price while offering more ‘premium’ features/feeling.

More confusing questions

• Are there other cars I absolutely should consider?
• Ignis didn’t have a great AMT originally. The head-nod was very pronounced and some other issues. Are they better now?
• Has Tata done any improvements to its AMT with the 2020 update?
  [Side note: We need a good thorough shoot out of all AMT implementations - Renault Kwid to Tata Nexon]
• If I drop my requirement for automatic, I will have a whole lot of options to confuse me (above and below this price).
  Am I too fixated on automatic? I know this is a highly subjective question, but currently I feel I will be able to manage with a manual (and may even enjoy it if the gearbox is good). But everyone I know (enthusiasts and regular drivers) insist on me getting an automatic.

Looking forward to suggestions and guidance from BHPians

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by tinshark

Looking forward to suggestions and guidance from BHPians

If this is the first car that you would own, then anything from the Maruti or Hyundai stable should be good. On the other hand if you have prior experience in maintaining cars and dealing with service centers, you can buy the Tiago eyes closed.

[KPR]

Originally Posted by tinshark

Looking forward to suggestions and guidance from BHPians

When you bring build quality Ignis is out. When you bring engine Tiago is out with 3 pot Vs Ignis's 1.2 - 4 pot.
If for you build quality is on top than anything else then forget MS. If you can live with this known devil then proceed reading further.

Ignis is a fun car to own. We were in a similar dilemma between Ignis AMT vs Tiago AMT 2 years ago.

We bought Ignis-Delta AMT based on:
To be driven within city limits. (We've other cars for highway drives)
Aged people can get in and out of car with quite ease.
Quite spacious. Absolutely trouble free service support.
Mileage master than a Tiago. You will get more mileage (~2.5-3KMPL) more than a Tiago AMT.

AMT in Ignis is a matter of time to get used to and for a not high revving normal driving style it isn't as bad as many reviews suggest. That combination of 1.2 petrol + AMT was first introduced in Ignis only and it's definitely better over Celerio's and is trouble free. If you drive in B2B traffic/cities AMT is a boon.

Since you've narrowed down to two cars only, buy what your heart says. You will enjoy for sure.

[tinshark]

Originally Posted by KPR

When you bring build quality Ignis is out. When you bring engine Tiago is out with 3 pot Vs Ignis's 1.2 - 4 pot.

This is the million rupee question I need to answer on my own, I guess.

Originally Posted by KPR

Absolutely trouble free service support.

I’ll eagerly await for some responses from Bangalore Tata owners about service. From what I have seen, there is no one service centre which at least has average customer satisfaction. There have been nasty stories about all centres.

Also, I know that Maruti has a reputation of hassle-free experience and service, but I am also aware that this impression will persist for a while even if it has deteriorated over time or due to the scale of Maruti there are bound to be bad incidents. In short I’m trying to say that brand perception may not equal reality and how big is the gap between ‘average service / support quality’ between these 2 brands (I’m absolutely not doubting your positive experience).

Originally Posted by KPR

Since you've narrowed down to two cars only, buy what your heart says. You will enjoy for sure.

Well my heart said BS6 Tiago JTP which never materialised . Even if I regretted city traffic I would have found some solace in the fun-to-drive car when I find empty stretches and twisties.

[akash_v12]

Originally Posted by tinshark

2. Well equipped to a point. So that I don’t feel the need to upgrade in 4-5 years.
3. Relatively fuss free ownership experience. I like the idea of getting to know my car mechanicals very well and take care of it, but if I’m realistic I know I will not find the time and won’t enjoy if I’m forced to learn it.

So, out of the 2 cars that you have selected, The Tiago is definitely the better built but there are more cons than pros in buying an AMT Tiago.

The Ignis is nowhere near as close to a Tiago in build quality but is more fun-to-drive and better equipped.

However!

Hyundai i10 Nios: I felt it was expensive and also Hyundais tend to have a bouncy suspension and lifeless steering. Although this one probably has a great AMT.

The Nios is a very worthy competitor to the Tiago, albeit in the lower Sportz AMT which misses out on most non-essential features (cooled glovebox, leather steering, etc.). The only major loss with the Sportz variant is the rear wash/wipe & 15-inch Alloys (There are 14-inch alloys though).

Speaking of Suspension, the ride is much more balanced and it doesn't bounce around a lot. The Nios is decently built, has a long feature list along with a great Arkamys sound system backed by a reliable manufacturer. So, if you can stretch go for the Grand i10 Nios Sportz/Asta AMT.

Here is BHPian Rahul Goyal's Grand i10 Nios Sportz AMT. (My Hyundai Grand i10 Nios Sportz AMT - Titan Grey)

[KPR]

Originally Posted by tinshark

This is the million rupee question I need to answer on my own, I guess.

The answer to this question is your choice for a car.

Originally Posted by tinshark

I’ll eagerly await for some responses from Bangalore Tata owners about service. From what I have seen, there is no one service centre which at least has average customer satisfaction. There have been nasty stories about all centres.

Again TATA isn't as bad as a Skoda or VW. (My opinion). What if you buy a Polo or a Rapid if you love it? Just imagine !

Originally Posted by tinshark

Also, I know that Maruti has a reputation of hassle-free experience and service, but I am also aware that this impression will persist for a while even if it has deteriorated over time or due to the scale of Maruti there are bound to be bad incidents.

Actually now we have choice of Arena, Nexa too. Every nook and corner of the country has a MS service center. Their cars are not problematic at all. In case of accident/body repairs any ASS be it MS or TATA or VW, Fiat delay things. Most of the dealers wish to keep minimum stock of slow moving body parts and order only when needed as an inventory/space & cost saving strategy. So a good rapport with service advisor will help with any brand ASS.

[tinshark]

Originally Posted by akash_v12

The Nios is a very worthy competitor to the Tiago, albeit in the lower Sportz AMT...

Speaking of Suspension, the ride is much more balanced and it doesn't bounce around a lot. The Nios is decently built, has a long feature list along with a great Arkamys sound system backed by a reliable manufacturer. So, if you can stretch go for the Grand i10 Nios Sportz/Asta AMT.

Thanks, I will consider Nios more seriously although it now starts getting closer to bigger hatchbacks like i20, Baleno etc.

I am also getting the impression that the AMT head nod is not a deal breaker (especially if I’m not spoilt by other autos). Also, AMT smoothness won’t be a criteria to choose between Tiago and Ignis.

Originally Posted by KPR

The answer to this question is your choice for a car.

Again TATA isn't as bad as a Skoda or VW. (My opinion). What if you buy a Polo or a Rapid if you love it? Just imagine !

Yes, like most people I got quite excited about Rapid Rider (again, value for money seems to be a strong pull for me) even though it doesn’t have an auto and is probably quite big for a new driver. The Skoda horror stories put a full stop to my dreams.

In general I don’t like this idea of the customers have to be smart and savvy or else they will get conned by the dealers! If a customer is taken for a ride by a dealer, it’s usually seen as the customer’s fault. Not a sign of a professionalism by the industry (IMHO).

Originally Posted by KPR

Actually now we have choice of Arena, Nexa too. Every nook and corner of the country has a MS service center. Their cars are not problematic at all. In case of accident/body repairs any ASS be it MS or TATA or VW, Fiat delay things. Most of the dealers wish to keep minimum stock of slow moving body parts and order only when needed as an inventory/space & cost saving strategy. So a good rapport with service advisor will help with any brand ASS.

Yes, this makes sense. The more I read I’m seeing value of this and may sway me towards Ignis. I know that it is not a bad car by any measure but personally I feel Tiago is a better car but with quality control issues and service related issues.

Before I spiral into analysis-paralysis and delay my decision yet again, I hope to make up my mind!

Now, the thought I have is that usually around Sept-Oct there are minor refreshes or discounts to products and if I should wait