[Urban_Nomad]

Very confused with the responses on this thread. Most members, per my estimate... at least 90%... are for safe and well built cars. But on this thread, more than 70% recommend the Maruti dabba, including GTO (who in a recent thread about Maruti being asleep at the wheel said - "Safety? LOL")

Shouldn't safety be priority 1 here? I dont think we practice what we preach TBH. Our attitude towards safety seems pretty ass backwards IMO

Apologies for the rant and no offence stated towards any member. Simply stating my confusion here

Edit - Checked the GNCAP score for Baleno. Its 4... with the "radar brake" tech. without it - 3. And this is the export version. How the India spec version will fare... I believe my guess will be in line with the majority here

[NowNew7]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Unfortunately I don't think one among your shortlist would meet all your requirements.

• Reliability of AT and smoother drives: Baleno may score higher as the CVT is a long available tech and is the best suited for city use. AMT's how ever well tuned are jerky.
  
• Safety: Tiago would score here.
• Sound system, features: I would think Tiago and Nios score better.
• Fuel Efficiency: The AMTs would fare better than the CVT here.
• Ride Quality: Not sure on this, but I assume Tiago would fare better here.

Tiago would give you a little more uniqueness on the road. Personal choice for me would be the Tiago as I like the car.

This! Concur with AMT not being as smooth as CVT, but the difference is only for one who drives both on a regular basis.

Else you get used to the characteristics and behaviour and adjust accordingly. It was a bit of a change for me when I moved after 11 years with TC to my AMT a couple of years back. Now I am completely used to it and don't feel/manage around the "jerkiness".

On every other aspect Tiago hits the check mark and is way ahead for safety.

My recommendation comes backed with first hand experience: Just got a Tiago XZA+ for my FIL and we're completely happy with the same!

[abhatt]

Just booked a Sportz Nios AMT as I was worried with Tata complaints and did not want my FIL to deal with them. Also his image of Tata = Indica/Indigo etc has not vanished yet.

I personally would have got Tiago XZA+

Though i did not drive any car, I did not feel any jerks as a passenger throughout my multiple rides of AMT. I am used to people not changing gears smoothly may be. Our driving may not exceed 4k km a year.

[the.dogfather]

Outside the three options mentioned here, the Jazz V CVT is a great option. As you already are a Honda City user, you can continue your relationship with the brand/dealership/service and even try for a good loyalty bonus. As the City and Jazz are based on the same platform, you will feel at home in the Jazz and would not feel a lack of quality as compared to the City.
The Mumbai price for the Jazz V CVT is 10.34 lakhs but it's a good combination of ride quality, reliability, safety as compared to the other options you have mentioned here. It may lose out on features as compared to the Baleno but considering that features are much lower on your list of priorities I would suggest you to have a look.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

1. at least 90%... are for safe and well built cars. But on this thread, more than 70% recommend the Maruti dabba

2. Shouldn't safety be priority 1 here? I dont think we practice what we preach TBH.

3. Checked the GNCAP score for Baleno

4. Its 4... with the "radar brake" tech. without it - 3. And this is the export version.

1. If I have to guess not just 90% but 100% of not just TBHP members but all ICB (The Indian Car Buyer | Struggling with problems in brand new cars) would choose the "safer" option provided it matches the "less safer" option in every other parameter. But that's not the case isn't it ?

2. Yes, its always a priority but safety is relative.
Some questions :
- Does safety mean GNCAP ratings ?
- In that case shouldn't we all be buying only from the 12-15 cars that are rated ?
- How safe is a 4 star GNCAP from a 3 star ?
- Is the Harrier safer than the Seltos/XL6 ? If yes then how do you know since it hasn't been GNCAP rated ?
- When you choose an Altroz/Brezza over a XUV300 aren't you still making a compromise ? So its relative within those cars too, see the point ?

The whole idea of safety is multi-pronged and its a sea of greys, not as black and white as we expect it to be.
Plus there are limitations with budget, service network etc.

I don't think we "preach" anything. We are a forum for discussing our experiences and views which might help someone in buying the car best suited for their needs, in their budget and being informed of all the reported issues and catches so they make a conscious decision keeping everything in mind. Members are free to suggest what they want provided everyone adheres to the rules, IMHO.

3. I think you checked EURO-NCAP not GNCAP since the Baleno hasn't been GNCAP rated yet.

4. AEB gets it 4 and with speed assist and lane support it might even get 5! See your "dabba" isn't really a dabba for EURO-NCAP
Scroll to the image in this post (Maruti sleeping at the wheel | Where are the new car launches? | Why is Maruti missing new trends?).


Coming back to your primary confusion, if the TML/VW/Skoda cars were as reliable as MSIL/Honda/Toyota cars, MSIL won't have half the market and Toyota/Honda wouldn't be the go to cars for a reliable ownership experience. But the multiple reports of issues with the "safer" cars proves otherwise and do remember to check our recent threads about the issues being faced by the "safer" car owners.

Also the car itself is important but also equally important is the service like a "safer" car owner said somewhere that the car is very safe since it spends most of the time at the workshop and the owner has to Ola around (most likely in a "dabba"). Defeats the purpose of the purchase IMHO.
Not saying that all experiences are bad but the general trend and ownership reports earn them that reputation, exactly like the "dabba" reputation

Not to forget that all cars do follow the govt mandated safety norms but they aren't as strict as GNCAP. Hope they get updated too and we don't have to fret about it.

[umohan98]

Greetings All!
We're a happy two car family, with a 2010 Swift Dzire VXi and a 2017 Pre facelift SCross 1.3. The Dzire is now begining to show its age, with issues in starting up and brake fade. Last year, we had a service bill of almost INR17000 trying to fix up some of the issues that had propped up. The Dzire is primarily used by my mother, who is a doctor, and hence these startup issues means the car has to go.

The new car will be bought on exchange of the Dzire, and will not be used for more than 2000kms per year, in city traffic. Thus, we fixated upon a Petrol Automatic to replace the car.

We've shortlisted the following cars that we feel suit our criterias:

1) 2020 Dzire ZXi+ AMT
Pros:
-All good to have features, like Hill Hold Control, Auto Engine Start Stop, Leather wrapped steering
-Decent Space inside
-Excellent fuel efficiency (24kmpl claimed, my dad has been bowled over by this single stat)
-Manual Mode to drive in the hilly areas. This is an added advantage since it will be our first automatic car, and we can have more control over the gear changes with this.
-A newer gen K12 compared to the Baleno.
-Easy to drive
-A Maruti.

Cons:
-Poor Build, our 2010 Dzire feels more solid compared to this
-Beige Overload inside, since it rains for around 5 months here, can easily be soiled.
-Return to centre issues that have been reported, a test drive is needed to understand how severe these are.
-Doesn't feel good inside.
-Crash ratings of other Marutis

2) Baleno Alpha CVT
Pros:
-Looks more premium than the Dzire
-Black interiors that soil less easily, and look better.
-UV Cut Glasses
-CVT, a better gearbox technology (maybe?)
-A bit more spacious
-Nexa service has been good so-far with our S-Cross

Cons:
-Lack of Hill Hold control
-Less manual control compared to AMT
-Lesser fuel efficiency compared to Dzire.
-Crash Ratings
-No rear armrest

Other Cars that can be considered:
-Hyundai Aura 1.2 SX AMT
-Hyundai i20 1.2 Asta IVT or 1.0 Asta IMT

Hyundai Aura in the 1.2 SX AMT variant also seems to cover the basics pretty well, but the looks will need some time to digest. It lacks features like the Hill Hold, which seems like a good technology. It also isn't as fuel efficient as the Dzire, on paper at the least. But the interiors are certainly much better, and it feels better built compared to the Maruti.
The i20 will involve streching the budget by around a lakh, and brings in yet another question: IVT vs IMT, and Turbo vs Natural Aspiration. IMT again seems like a good technology on paper although. The negatives of the Aura apply here as well, with no Hill Hold and lesser fuel efficiency. Also, I don't personally like how the i20 looks, it feels over styled to me.

We didn't consider cars from other manufacturers. Tata, although its products are good, doesn't have an automatic with the Altroz and the Tigor feels small. The Punch in its top variant feels overpriced and is small again. Honda has been reduced to a small manufacturer in India now, and lacks the finess that it had back in the 2010s. Also, since we plan to keep this car for long, around 10 years, we don't want the manufacturer shutting its shop, say, 6 or 7 years down the line.

The Dzire fits the bill for almost all our requirements. But it doesn't feel like a 10lakh car. We will most probably buy the car in December, so that it can be registered with a 2022 Number Plate with the BH Series.


The questions:
-Is the 2022 Baleno worth waiting for, or we go for the Dzire right away?
-How important is the Hill Hold Control?
-Are CVTs easy to live with in the hills?
-Dzire vs Baleno vs Aura, what would your recomendation be?

Your help and insights would be really wonderful.

[AJ56]

I’d remove Suzuki’s from the list based on the poor crash ratings alone, it’s a major concern and one must do all they can to stack the cards of fate in their favour should the unthinkable happen, besides build quality is important to you and they feel like tin cans every time you close a door.

Hyundai I’d say only consider the i20 as it’s the only one in the budget that comes with proper transmissions (non AMT), also i20 interior is better quality than the Aura. If you’re going to keep the car long don’t let a slightly higher price keep you from a better product that you’ll use almost every single day for 10 years.

Any reason why the Polo isn’t considered? It no longer comes with the questionable DQ200 transmission and is the best built and safest car you can buy under 10L today.

I know you’re against Honda but at least test drive the Amaze as it comes with a CVT transmission that’s very smooth in the city, it is underpowered but for the intended purpose I don’t think thats a deal breaker. Even if a mfg leaves a market, spares are never a concern for many years after and the Amaze being a mass market car that sells in good volume will never face such issues even if Honda leaves after a few years.

If you can wait, then wait as it’s only a few months and you’ll be able to see if the 2022 model offers something that may change your decision.

Hill hold is nice to have but really it’s strictly optional as when stopped on an incline you should have the handbrake on and then just build some power before letting off and you’ll never roll down, with an automatic it’s even easier as no clutch slip is needed but keep in mind you can still roll back in D if your foot is off the accelerator and the incline is steep enough.

CVT’s are fine in the hills, more importantly I’d look at power if you’re attempting to accelerate at a high altitude (lower O2 means engines make less power than at sea level) + steep incline requires a powerful car unless you’re ok with flooring it every time you want to move forward with some intent.

Between those 3, Aura anyday.

Cheers.

[Voodooblaster]

Since you seek an AT, CVT to be preferred over AMT.

And for long term reliability in an AT, the Japs seem to be the better option.

I would suggest the Jazz V CVT over Baleno.

In terms of pricing, the equivalent would be Baleno Zeta variant





Though Jazz V CVT is 30k higher than Baleno, there are better discounts on the Jazz (since it's a slow moving model for Honda) and hence the resultant OTR would be the same.

I will not go into safety aspect, as india spec models of both are not tested. (Honda seems to have an upper hand here though)

Since you are letting go of City MT, Jazz would feel more familiar. Read experience of Bhpian GKMahajan who faced a similar experience of replacing a Manual City with an Jazz CVT in Mumbai. (My 2015 Honda Jazz V CVT (Automatic))

And finally, my family is satisfied with Jazz V CVT for nearly 28k kms over the last 2.75 years (The Magic Carpet - My Honda Jazz Petrol CVT (Automatic))

Compare brochures of the two:

[ATTACH=honda-jazz-brochure.pdf]2225737[/ATTACH]

Baleno_Brochure.pdf

Do keep us updated on your choice

[umohan98]

An Update:
The Baleno again scoring zero stars in the Latin NCAP tests has had its impact on my parents now. After many, many hours of discussion about the potential usage and the budget, and why the stars matter, we've eliminated the Dzire and Baleno from our shortlist. We're now considering the safest Maruti on offer, the Vitara Brezza ZXi AT to complement the SCross. Will post again when there's an update.

The reason why VW was not considered is because it is small. We have 3 6-footers in the family, and wouldn't have fit comfortably in it. Also, it's almost 12 year old car now.

Will also try the Kia Sonet in the Petrol IMT variant, but as things look now, it is going to be the Brezza mostly.

[Voodooblaster]

Originally Posted by umohan98

An Update:
The Baleno again scoring zero stars in the Latin NCAP

considering the safest Maruti on offer

Will also try the Kia Sonet in the Petrol IMT variant

The Seltos GNCAP fiasco doesn't inspire much confidence in Sonet

The indian spec S cross is untested by NCAP

The Brezza AT -torque converter though antiquated, is reliable

Being an NA engine, it'll probably have the least headaches in ownership over the long run

[Knighted06]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Very confused with the responses on this thread. Most members, per my estimate... at least 90%... are for safe and well built cars. But on this thread, more than 70% recommend the Maruti dabba, including GTO (who in a recent thread about Maruti being asleep at the wheel said - "Safety? LOL")

Shouldn't safety be priority 1 here? I dont think we practice what we preach TBH. Our attitude towards safety seems pretty ass backwards IMO

Apologies for the rant and no offence stated towards any member. Simply stating my confusion here

Edit - Checked the GNCAP score for Baleno. Its 4... with the "radar brake" tech. without it - 3. And this is the export version. How the India spec version will fare... I believe my guess will be in line with the majority here

And now the safety has fallen to 0 stars with the Latin Ncap tests. Donno If We should laugh or cry. I love the design of the Baleno.

Originally Posted by NowNew7

This! Concur with AMT not being as smooth as CVT, but the difference is only for one who drives both on a regular basis.

Else you get used to the characteristics and behaviour and adjust accordingly. It was a bit of a change for me when I moved after 11 years with TC to my AMT a couple of years back. Now I am completely used to it and don't feel/manage around the "jerkiness".

On every other aspect Tiago hits the check mark and is way ahead for safety.

My recommendation comes backed with first hand experience: Just got a Tiago XZA+ for my FIL and we're completely happy with the same!

I concur to this statement. While not the exact scenario, I have a Celerio AMT and a Micra. Whenever I drive Micra and get into the Celerio auto, I feel the difference. While AMTs are not as bad as most people exaggerate, you can find the difference when driven back to back. But for someone who's using the car everyday, its going to be fine. In case you want a AMT box to be smooth, you can shift it to manual mode. That really makes the experience a lot better.

Originally Posted by umohan98

An Update:
The Baleno again scoring zero stars in the Latin NCAP tests has had its impact on my parents now. After many, many hours of discussion about the potential usage and the budget, and why the stars matter, we've eliminated the Dzire and Baleno from our shortlist. We're now considering the safest Maruti on offer, the Vitara Brezza ZXi AT to complement the SCross. Will post again when there's an update.

The reason why VW was not considered is because it is small. We have 3 6-footers in the family, and wouldn't have fit comfortably in it. Also, it's almost 12 year old car now.

Will also try the Kia Sonet in the Petrol IMT variant, but as things look now, it is going to be the Brezza mostly.

Please have a look at Astor as well. Although I'm not a big Fan of thise Chinese cars (All MG products are rebadged Chinese cars) as a product, the Astor is solid product and has a good presence. My family had to learn the hard way to appreciate a good product rather than stay loyal to a certain company.

I think for the OP, Tata Punch makes perfect sense. Though it is a bit costly, the product is fresh and the platform is new and safe. It has a very good GC and comes with all bells and whistles. It can handle both the city and Highway duties. For the added cost, I think it makes more sense to buy the latest product and be satisfied with it for a longer duration, rather than buying a older product and wanting to change it again in a few years. Just my opinion.

[Piyush Kanthak]

Finally went for Baleno Zeta

What about safety and built quality, even if you drive in city, it's risky.
Tomorrow if Maruti makes Baleno stronger, I will book it tomorrow.

[mav3r1ckblu3]

The OP might have already decided, and maybe I'm late to reply. But I'm surprised by the percentage of people recommending Glanza/Baleno here. It scored 0 in the latest NCAP tests. If we're a responsible automotive forum like we project ourselves, lets atleast behave like one. No offence meant to anyone. But why would you jeopardize safety over mileage & how smooth the gearbox is? I'm aghast. I own a Tigor and a Duster by the way, before anyone comes back at me. Please lets choose wisely. You'll only be able to fill your tank if you're alive!

[kaustubhp]

I was contemplating writing about my wife's i20 IVT Sportz but could not type all out. May be a separate post for that but since this is a related post, so I am offering my two cents.

We tried two out of three cars mentioned above i.e. Baleno and Grand i10 NIOS. We ruled out Grand i10 for following reasons:
a. AMT transmission was jerky. Gear changes were very noticeable.
b. Space. We wanted a few more MMs in the rear seat. (In hindsight, we are very happy that it can accommodate four people with differently sized frames. My dad and I are both tall and have bigger overall frame also).
c. Looks like a smaller car.
d. Sufficiently loaded variant touches 9L on road in Rajasthan so made little sense to compromise space.

Baleno on the other hand was a strong competitor. (i) CVT transmission, (ii) Space, (iii) reliable ASS and (iv) aggressively priced and spec Zeta variant. But we let go for the following reasons:
a. The dashboard space around i20 is roomier compared to Baleno.
b. i20 looks better than Baleno.
c. Judging from the built of the over and door/trunk weight, i20 felt more sturdier.
d. We had an i20 Magna for over 9 years. No qualms on Hyundai ASS, engine and performance.
e. Baleno Alpha costed 10+ and offered all specs but our budget was strictly under 10. i20 Sportz offered- TPMS, arkamys sound system, wireless apple car play, rear camera with guidelines and exceptionally high quality camera (you know how Honda City and Kushaq have low resolution ones) auto headlamps, electronically adjustable and auto folding ORVMs, cooled glovebox, rear AC vents.
f. Above all, the drive feel of the car when my wife drove it. Seating position, soft handling of the steering, easily accessible buttons on steering and good digital instrument cluster.

I have always made it a point to test drive cars back to back and also on the same road/traffic conditions. My decision on choosing a compact SUV for myself was after back to back TD of sedans and C SUVs.

I would say if you go with Baleno or i20, you won't regret. I cannot speak of Tiago because my family has had bad experience with Tata engines and ASS, so I never considered it. Cheers!

[drjumbo]

Good evening! Hope I'm not late with my inputs.
- I'm using a manual Honda City i-Vtec 2014 model since the time of launch and overall Happy with the car except for the annoying dashboard that always creaks and an upward play under my driver's seat rail that no ASS has been able to fix. I hope my car is safe enough at about 4-5 stars but no evidence yet for the Indian version of my car (fingers crossed).
Coming to the topic my wife bought Baleno CVT Zeta in November 2018 and car has run above 25 k mark so far. At that time our priority was a smooth gearbox and it was clear I only wanted a CVT or DSG. Polo GT at that time was about 2 lack above our budget and small for our use. Jazz was another option back then but same interiors with a sluggish engine that too in hills (Shimla) was a big no. Brio was peppy but inefficient torque converter was again a source of doubt. Until then only safety ratings were that from EURO NCAP and I hoped that Indian Baleno would have something around 3 stars.
- Quite surprisingly the car has fared better than my Honda City in terms of rattles at corresponding ODO readings. But the feel of the car, especially the flimsy doors always used to leave me worried.
- So when a colleague asked for recommendations I clearly told him I take no guarantee about safety and thus guided him towards a Figo which to me was a perfect car in terms of quality, engine refinement and safety. But he wasn't comfortable with the looks so second in recommendation was Nexon with a warning of not so pleasant after sales experience and finally he settled for it.
Talking about the present scenario with ZERO NCAP ratings for my car... My answer is NO! If it was not my wife's car I would have sold it right away but she thinks I'm just finding an excuse to buy a new car.
So which car I'd buy?
- None of the Tatas - I'd rather DIE in my Baleno ONCE than DYING EVERYDAY with those crappy engines (no offence to owners but to me that's how the engines compare to japanese !). For me safety is important but that shouldn't come at the price of CORE DRIVING PLEASURE.
- My choice would be the polo with that beautiful global award winning engine and now a city friendly everlasting torque converter.
- If space is a concern then Jazz would be my next choice, the engine would do just fine unless you go to hill stations and start overtaking every now and then, because only then the engine struggle would be annoyingly apparent paired with the rubber band effect. But the i-Vtec kick more than compensates for that as well.
Being a typical middle class person from a small town I would not invest in anything else, I don't like the way Koreans ride, and Maruti although reliable needs to work on its safety. So my money would go on an established brand with decent network, quality engines, reliability, FEEL and safety - Honda, Volkswagen, Toyota ( original ones only - not talking about Glanza).
I have bid farewell to Maruti forever!!! But that doesn't mean Tata has my money. there are many better players out there.