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Old 20th May 2013, 17:45   #2551
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

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Originally Posted by Dr.Nishath View Post
+1.I have almost finalized the purchase of a Toyota Etios VD and the SA is pushing for the Toyota insurance saying its hassle-free.He has quoted Rs.30,730 for the zero depreciation/'bumper to bumper' coverage.Inputs from fellow members will be deeply appreciated.
Try to take the Insurance from outside on your own instead from the dealer. Dealers are known to overcharge the Insurance premium. Try doing an online comparison of the quotes from various Insurers and negotiate with Toyota armed with the information.
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Old 21st May 2013, 12:17   #2552
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Update
=====

I just spoke to surveyor from BA and he told me (and also sent me a mail) that

1) All estimates are 30% above the actual cost of repair
2) Bosy shell is not covered as part of insurance.
3) 40% Depreciation is applicable on my vehicle (on top of IDV)

He had tried to instruct Ford people to start repairs. Thankfully they called me and I asked not to do so.

Guys, Please help. Is there anything true in in the arguments made by BA?

If I am not happy with what he says, then what is my next escalation point.

Thanks in advance
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Old 22nd May 2013, 13:41   #2553
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

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Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post
Update
=====

I just spoke to surveyor from BA and he told me (and also sent me a mail) that

1) All estimates are 30% above the actual cost of repair
2) Bosy shell is not covered as part of insurance.
3) 40% Depreciation is applicable on my vehicle (on top of IDV)

He had tried to instruct Ford people to start repairs. Thankfully they called me and I asked not to do so.

Guys, Please help. Is there anything true in in the arguments made by BA?

If I am not happy with what he says, then what is my next escalation point.

Thanks in advance
Shyam, Bajaj Allianz is taking you for a ride. There is no such as "body shell is not covered under insurance." Ask him some stupid questions like, how much extra premium to cover the radiator, the horn etc.

1. What I feel is, your IDV of 470,000/- is working against you for total loss. And can you post the estimate given to you by Bajaj Allianz? If the cost is not exceeding 70% they wont approve for Total Loss.

2. What according to you should be the current market value of this car? Also mention the Mfg year. 470k is too high.

3. If they are not ready for total loss you can opt for Cash Loss.

In cash loss scenario, the company will pay your certain amount of your total IDV and allows you to keep the car.

Now, two things can be done:

a) Example: BA pays you 250,000/- and the car. You can salvage the car and get additional 100,000/-

b) Take the 250,000/- and get it repaired. Sell or drive it.

Rs. 250,000/- & Rs. 100,000/- is just a hypothetical figure, I have not calculated it.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 16:23   #2554
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Shyam, Bajaj Allianz is taking you for a ride. There is no such as "body shell is not covered under insurance." Ask him some stupid questions like, how much extra premium to cover the radiator, the horn etc.

1. What I feel is, your IDV of 470,000/- is working against you for total loss. And can you post the estimate given to you by Bajaj Allianz? If the cost is not exceeding 70% they wont approve for Total Loss. .
I understand that the IDV is very high when comparred to actual market value but it is BA who gave me the option to declare such IDV and I paid premium for that for last few years. Its time for Bajaj Allianz to prove that they really respect their policy document word by word.

The estimated repairs cost given by Ford is Rs.5,61,000/- whcih is very much exceeding entire IDV. Therefore claim should be considered as CTL/TL.


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Originally Posted by F50 View Post
2. What according to you should be the current market value of this car? Also mention the Mfg year. 470k is too high.
Manufacturing year is 2005. I do not know the exact market value but yes, 470k is too high. But as I said before, Its BA who gave me option to declare such high IDV. Every dog has its time and now its mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by F50 View Post
3. If they are not ready for total loss you can opt for Cash Loss.

In cash loss scenario, the company will pay your certain amount of your total IDV and allows you to keep the car.
Why should I consider this option when I can claim total IDV as per policy. Legally, Does BA has the option to offer this scenario? How does BA can offer discount to its own responsibility when they collected full premium from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F50 View Post
Now, two things can be done:

a) Example: BA pays you 250,000/- and the car. You can salvage the car and get additional 100,000/-

b) Take the 250,000/- and get it repaired. Sell or drive it.

Rs. 250,000/- & Rs. 100,000/- is just a hypothetical figure, I have not calculated it.
Since estimated repair value is opver 5,50,000/- I do not see any reason to get it repaired. Rather I prefer buying a new car and I am already exploring market for different models and options.

Update
=====

I had emailed BA surveyor to provide next level escalation contact details and he did not respond to that part of my question.

Today afternoon, I logged mycase at BA online grievances forum.

I have enough time to fight. and I am not going to give-up.
I am working on buying a new car (Again Sedan ) and I do not have any pressing needs on the insurance money I am going to get from BA. If required, I can get media attention (it is very easy for me and channel news people will have something new to chew for entire day). Are there any other ways to make the battle more interesting.

End of the day, I do not want insurance companies to lure people with unrealistic IDVs and take hefty premiums. If they do, then they must honor their customer and pay IDV without crying.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 17:28   #2555
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

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Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post
End of the day, I do not want insurance companies to lure people with unrealistic IDVs and take hefty premiums. If they do, then they must honor their customer and pay IDV without crying.
+1 to whatever you have said. If the insurance company is not ready to honour the IDV when required, it is not correct on its part to charge a higher premium for higher IDV.
You can approach the IRDA/ Ombudsman in case BA does not honour the commitment or tries to wriggle out.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 18:15   #2556
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Got to know about an Insurance company by name 'Magma' through a friend of mine. Need to know if any fellow buddies had any experience with them.

Their website: http://magma-hdi.co.in/

Thanks in advance.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 19:20   #2557
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Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post
I understand that the IDV is very high when comparred to actual market value but it is BA who gave me the option to declare such IDV and I paid premium for that for last few years. Its time for Bajaj Allianz to prove that they really respect their policy document word by word.

End of the day, I do not want insurance companies to lure people with unrealistic IDVs and take hefty premiums. If they do, then they must honor their customer and pay IDV without crying.
I checked the value of the car in the used car valuation of carwale.com (general barometer). It comes to around 1,25,000 for a excellent condition car. Please don't mistake me for asking, but what was the reasoning behind going for a higher IDV than the market price of the vehicle? Why pay more premium when you could have paid lesser over the years.

Wouldn't the insurance company think that someone would deliberately create a accident and & claim insurance for the higher IDV. AFAIK, while calculating the total loss for a car its either the IDV or the market value whichever is lesser that is taken into consideration.

For e.g someone may purposefully reduce the IDV value to pay a reduced premium, in that case even if the market value is higher the insurance company would obviously pay only the IDV value.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 22:08   #2558
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

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Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
AFAIK, while calculating the total loss for a car its either the IDV or the market value whichever is lesser that is taken into consideration.
That does not sound logical to me. Reasons being:
1. Market value is subjective, it depends on the assessor, there is no yardstick. So it's open to debate.
2. If I know that my car's market value in less than the year-on-year percentage reduction of the IDV and if your statement is true, I would just opt for lower insured value and save on premium. This scenario is true in my case wherein IDV exceeds 3 lakh but I am getting quotes less than 2 lakh. No, the IDV is not inflated.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 23:35   #2559
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

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Originally Posted by Guite View Post
That does not sound logical to me. Reasons being:
1. Market value is subjective, it depends on the assessor, there is no yardstick. So it's open to debate.
2. If I know that my car's market value in less than the year-on-year percentage reduction of the IDV and if your statement is true, I would just opt for lower insured value and save on premium. This scenario is true in my case wherein IDV exceeds 3 lakh but I am getting quotes less than 2 lakh. No, the IDV is not inflated.
Definetly market value is subjective. But, a car once out of the showroom is valued slightly differently in its lifetime based on various factors like success in the market of the model, brand name & A**. From a insurance renewal point of view for most of us, it is just a straight depreciation of 10% for the first year and the subsequent %ages for the succeeding years.

IDV is something which the owner of the car has to determine, IDV is generally a band with the lower and upper limit within which a car owner is allowed to choose from. Also for cars exceeding 5 years age the IDV is arrived at by agreement & not by %age of depreciation.

Even by %age calculation of depreciation for the IDV for the Ford Flair is too high (5 lacs approx. OTR in 2005), I am not able to understand how the policy was signed in the first place. I was told point blank by many insurers, I could quote as low a IDV (within a band) by me during renewal but no way above the depreciation calculated for the vehicle.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 09:15   #2560
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

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Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
AFAIK, while calculating the total loss for a car its either the IDV or the market value whichever is lesser that is taken into consideration.
No, in case of total loss or CTL, the IDV is taken as market price thoughout the policy period without any depreciation. For cars more than 5yrs old the IDV has to be mutually agreed between the Insurer and the customer and in Shyam's case BA has deliberately allowed him to increase the IDv for which Shyam paid an additional amount over and above the normal premium. Now if the insurer tried to act smart by offering a lesser IDV in case of CTL then the Insurer has to be taken to task. I would support Shyam in his attempt to get even with BA.

Attached below is the snapshot of TL/CTL related terms which I am sure will be available in every car Insurance policy,
Quote:

IDV of vehicles beyond 5 years of age and of obsolete models of thevehicles (i.e. models which the manufacturers have discontinued tomanufacture) is to be determined on the basis of an understandingbetween the insurer and the insured. IDV shall be treated as the 'Market Value' throughout the policy period without any further depreciation for the purpose of Total Loss (TL)/Constructive Total Loss (CTL) claims. The insured vehicle shall be treated as a CTL if the aggregate cost of retrieval and/or repair of the vehicle, subject to terms and conditions of the policy, exceeds 75% of the IDV of the vehicle.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 10:41   #2561
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Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
I checked the value of the car in the used car valuation of carwale.com (general barometer). It comes to around 1,25,000 for a excellent condition car. Please don't mistake me for asking, but what was the reasoning behind going for a higher IDV than the market price of the vehicle? Why pay more premium when you could have paid lesser over the years.
Its because of more sentimental reasons. It's my first car. It was the car which stood with me all good and bad days and supported me alike as good as born for me. Never gave me any trouble in its life time. It became like a family member. All these developed a kind of attachment to it. I also took extreem care on the car. It never went to any road side mechanic. It was always serviced at authorized service centre for so small things such as replacing a bulb or side mirror.

I used to be out of country more frequently for extended periods. All though I had a gated private parking space, I was a bit concerned about the posibility of car theft. I wanted to be insured to the maximum in such case. I am a person to pay more premium and buy peace during tough times. I even covered passengers in the car at higher premium (2,00,000/- per head).

About 18yrs before, My scooter was stolen and then insurance company (I guess oriental insurance) paid me peanuts as it was insured for a lower value for saving premium. I had a tough time those days without a bike and plan of buying a new bike by adding little more money were shattered. That experience probably acted back of the mind as a catalyst to keep IDV at maximum and buy peace end of the day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
Wouldn't the insurance company think that someone would deliberately create a accident and & claim insurance for the higher IDV.
This looks more cinematic to me. I dont think anyone will risk life for little lessthan 5 lakhs. People around accident scene, police and highway patrol team, every one said samething that I am absolutely fortunate to have survived in that accident. I repeat survived. I am not stopping BA to make any further investigation in this regard. The probelm is they are not abiding by the contract they signed for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
AFAIK, while calculating the total loss for a car its either the IDV or the market value whichever is lesser that is taken into consideration.

For e.g someone may purposefully reduce the IDV value to pay a reduced premium, in that case even if the market value is higher the insurance company would obviously pay only the IDV value.
As per their contract, IDV is market value for the entire policy period.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 12:20   #2562
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Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post

Its because of more sentimental reasons. It's my first car. It was the car which stood with me all good and bad days and supported me alike as good as born for me. Never gave me any trouble in its life time. It became like a family member. All these developed a kind of attachment to it. I also took extreem care on the car. It never went to any road side mechanic. It was always serviced at authorized service centre for so small things such as replacing a bulb or side mirror.

I used to be out of country more frequently for extended periods. All though I had a gated private parking space, I was a bit concerned about the posibility of car theft. I wanted to be insured to the maximum in such case. I am a person to pay more premium and buy peace during tough times. I even covered passengers in the car at higher premium (2,00,000/- per head).

About 18yrs before, My scooter was stolen and then insurance company (I guess oriental insurance) paid me peanuts as it was insured for a lower value for saving premium. I had a tough time those days without a bike and plan of buying a new bike by adding little more money were shattered. That experience probably acted back of the mind as a catalyst to keep IDV at maximum and buy peace end of the day.

This looks more cinematic to me. I dont think anyone will risk life for little lessthan 5 lakhs. People around accident scene, police and highway patrol team, every one said samething that I am absolutely fortunate to have survived in that accident. I repeat survived. I am not stopping BA to make any further investigation in this regard. The probelm is they are not abiding by the contract they signed for.

As per their contract, IDV is market value for the entire policy period.
Yes, the sentiment value of "the first car" is something dear to lot of us. Please don't mistake me that I questioned your accident incident, I was just wondering about a hypothetical scenario. Hope you get the IDV value of the car, do arm yourself with knowledge from IRDA site and other websites which will help you.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 14:40   #2563
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The estimated repairs cost given by Ford is Rs.5,61,000/- whcih is very much exceeding entire IDV. Therefore claim should be considered as CTL/TL.
Shyam, its a clear case of Total Loss and not even CTL. Stand by Total Loss.


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Why should I consider this option when I can claim total IDV as per policy. Legally, Does BA has the option to offer this scenario?
Yes now you shouldn't, it was just an option.

Cash Loss is in the act, every company offers this. This kind of option is very famous in commercial vehicle claims. We have done many in the past.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 15:25   #2564
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Thankyou all BHP'ians for your valuable support.

Update
=====

I escated my concern to Bajaj Allianz online grievances forum. But I have not got any reference number for my escalation. Therefore, I do not have any proof that, I escalated to them. IRDA will look into the matter only after 2 weeks after the issue is escalated to respective company grievances cell.

On the other side, the BA Surveyor sitting silent.

What I must do now.

What other methods will they use to pressurize me for some settlement other than Total Loss. How long can I leave my car at workshop? Do I need to pay some money for parking there ? If so, how long they will aloow for free parking?

If issue does not get settle with the free parking time frame, then can I move the car elsewhere (safe area) until the settlement is done? What would be the concerns from BA?

Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 16:58   #2565
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What other methods will they use to pressurize me for some settlement other than Total Loss. How long can I leave my car at workshop? Do I need to pay some money for parking there ? If so, how long they will aloow for free parking?
Hold on to your horses, no need to start strategising even before you know the outcome. Regarding the parking space, I dont think you will be asked to pay anything till the matter is resolved. The workshop will be responsible for keeping your car subject to space availability, if not they themselves will escalate to the Insurance co.
But stick to your guns and as F50 said nothing less than Total Loss would work for you. All the best.
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