8th May 2011, 11:43 | #151 |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chennai
Posts: 171
Thanked: 129 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Dear archtect, I thought I will quote a few paragraphs from your 8th May post to appreciate as well said. I found it very difficult because the entire posting is very well said and thought provoking. If only our powers that be are able to read this and think beyond partisan lines and interests..Regds |
() Thanks |
|
8th May 2011, 12:40 | #152 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,432
Thanked: 339 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
Since you are an architect you have analysed and put things together beautifully. there is something I would like to add:
For true emergencies there in 999 anyway (not 911 - that is US) and a very good taxi service in most cities (again, not cheap). | |
() Thanks |
8th May 2011, 12:53 | #153 |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 51
Thanked: 14 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! As a lot of others said, we have been bought up mostly on the western culture of lifestyle which mandates enough private space (big houses) for us and cars to commute.. Public transport is for people those who cannot afford a private vehicle, starting from a 2 wheeler (it is heartening though to see that this belief is slowly being eradicated from our minds). Cars were a symbol of prestige and luxury at one point of time .. especially pre-90s that our sub conscious minds just wants to own one.. As mentioned above in countries like singapore and even in congested american cities like new york, traffic planning is done cleverly so that traffic "evolves" in a right way. So while, owning a car in new york may prove a very expensive and harrowing experience, not owning a car in Minnesota may give you the same experience.. If a "free" country like USA can set double standards depending on the place you live in and real estate available, it is high time we start managing traffic density in some of the most congested cities.. delhi/mumbai/hyd/kolkata/chennai/blore . Awareness/advantages of public transport needs to increase.. So does awareness about carpooling.. Parking your car IMHO is a smaller part of the bigger picture of controlling traffic in your city. |
() Thanks |
8th May 2011, 13:39 | #154 |
BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mumbai
Posts: 47
Thanked: 3 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! I have been living this dilema for the past 3 years. I stay in Mumbai and travel out for work nearly 15-20 days a month. Office is in Mumbai and work is all outside. I had a surgery late 2008 and had to stop driving during rehab. Then in 2009, I sold my car. The recession in 2008, then the inability to make up my mind about what to buy has stopped me from buying a car as yet. Prior to this, I used to drive nearly 2000+kms every month and I love to drive. I've been an "ECO" traveler (atleast in Mumbai) these past few years. A few Points from both sides:
The OTHER Side:
It is another hellish experience by itself to simply get to the train station. And then one wishes for your own vehicle - "parking dekh lenge, ghar to pahauch jaenge ek piece mein" I also travel frequently to Chennai, Pune, Nashik and Bangalore. Public Transport - accessibility and connectivity is the best in Mumbai. It is next to impossible to manage in a place like Pune without at least a bike. With cities spreading out the way they are, mass transportation seems to be the only way out. We seem to be growing skywards, linearly and radially, at the same time! These systems, however have to been really reliable, efficient and comfortable for people to stop using private vehicles en masse. Should we stop using private vehicles within cities like Bombay, Bangalore etc.: most assuredly YES! The question is Can We? |
(1) Thanks |
The following BHPian Thanks Satya79 for this useful post: | dot |
8th May 2011, 14:42 | #155 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,432
Thanked: 339 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
I don't know, but may be. There are a few things that corporates can do (and many are doing) and employees can suggest:
| |
() Thanks |
8th May 2011, 19:28 | #156 | ||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,510
Thanked: 5,338 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
Quote:
Restricting car sales is not an option. We can't entice auto makers to set up shop here with one hand, and stymy their sales growth with the other! Singapore can put a cap on car sales, but I don't think any cars are made there? Regulating the use of cars is what is required. | ||
() Thanks |
8th May 2011, 22:22 | #157 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ghaziabad, U. P
Posts: 1,359
Thanked: 764 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! A very important point I'd like to add. As odyssey045 mentioned, you have to "evolve" a public transport, it can't be created overnight. And the "form" of the city helps evolve it. The British were very smart when they created Mumbai. They put in the railway lines first. That was the "grand chord". All other "feeders" fell in to place and created a truly amazing "linear" city. The success of Mumbai's public transport is because of its linear nature. the bulk movement is handled on the 2-3 parallel MRTS lines (railways here) and the feeders chip in. You are never too far away from a local. Now, look at the stupidity of our own planning, namely Delhi. India's first development authority, DDA, took the most short-sighted approach and created Delhi like a ring, a "radiating" pattern. Result: Thousands of bus routes, no uniformity of demand leading to erratic bus timings and profitability. Lonely roads and heavily-clogged centre. Not to mention the maximum road area per capita required. This created a car-centric, car-loving city which is also practical to negotiate and survive in only if you have a car. Dense, linear cities with feeders are perfect for public transport. Circular / Radiating cities are a mess. Last edited by architect : 8th May 2011 at 22:34. |
() Thanks |
9th May 2011, 00:28 | #158 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,432
Thanked: 339 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
Well, most cities in the world are not linear, and they do very well. Also while I wouldn't comment about Mumbai, Delhi (except the manicured Lutyen's Delhi) was most certainly not designed by the Brits before or after independence, and most of the settlement mess is not DDA's creation it is the result of the annual regularisation of illegal colonies that became a feature. Moreover linearity of Mumbai is a myth to a good extent, the city is more of a triangle (and inverted one, if you may) and there is a lot of east-west movement too in the northern suburbs - that part is a royal mess. An then there is Navi Mumbai. Having lived in both places I would say that today Delhi actually may have a better public transport infrastructure though in early 90s it was Bombay which trumped Delhi. | |
() Thanks |
9th May 2011, 00:49 | #159 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ghaziabad, U. P
Posts: 1,359
Thanked: 764 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
The part of Delhi that existed before the British was Shahjahanabad actually functioned perfectly well as a single unit until the British took over the Red Fort in 1857 and converted into a protected British cantonment, disrupting the fabric of that settlement. I am sorry to disagree with you, but the sole purpose of DDA was to plan Delhi and create masterplans and account for and create systems where urban villages and unauthorised colonies did not become quasi-slums. It has failed. Delhi's current mess is the result of DDA's inability to channelise developments in the right pattern. Regarding unauthorised colonies, they are the biggest proofs of bad, non-inclusive planning. What do urban villages and unauthorised colonies do in Delhi? They provide affordable space for living for those who can't afford to work and carry out business in the "planned" portions of the city. If the people staying here could afford to stay in "DDA-planned Delhi", they would do it. Where do the fabricators, the atta-chakkis, the shoemakers go for business? the urban villages or regularised colonies. Where do the drivers / maids stay when they come from other states? The same urban villages or regularised or unauthorised colonies. Why? Because of a real-estate pattern that escalates spaces for both residence and business beyond affordability of the poor. If the Masterplan and the authority cannot create spaces for these people or create mechanisms where these people are pushed into islands called urban villages and unauthorised colonies due to affordability, then it is a failure of planning. What is the difference between DDA and DLF if neither can provide more than the token amount of "EWS" flats for every acre they colonise? We love to blame unauthorised colonies and urban villages for the mess in Delhi. It would be interesting to see the city survive without them even for a single day. As an abstraction, Mumbai's planning is much better. It is a triangle now with three parallel (or somewhat radiating lines) but it was provided a structure for the city to grow. In Delhi, growth happens because all around, making it a most complex city to set up bus routes or metro routes. I think we are going off-topic with this one now. | |
() Thanks |
9th May 2011, 01:12 | #160 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,432
Thanked: 339 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
When you claim that it was DDA's failure to build a masterplan that led to the growth of unauthorised colonies - I fully agree. All I meant to say in my previous post was the DDA did not fail in planning for infrastructure - it failed in a much broader sense of urban planning. Digressing a little, DDA may have failed its mission but I wouldn't call it a failure if you see it from the perspective of its real masters - the land mafia - who benefited from a failure in DDA's mission. In case of Mumbai also there is no planning. In fact the situation is worse. In the 90s there was a municipal law that if a slum had been demolished three times and the same people settled again each time, then they had a right on the land and could not be removed. It is an accident of history, not town planning, that the railway was laid the way it was (Harbour line connects the harbours, western line connect Bombay to Gujarat, the cotton land, via the only place the bridge could be made over the sea and tracks laid, and central line connects South Bombay - the only Bombay that existed at the time - to the rest of Maharashtra and central India where the coal would come from). The coolies followed from all over India and before longed settled right next to the tracks - it wasn't the planning that did that but shear economics of their lot. Before the 90s the "linear" part of the city was already fully saturated, and for the last two and half decades it has been a growing mess - any Mumbaikar will tell you that. I'll stop right here - just saw your note on going off topic. Let me just conclude by saying that I lived on the fringes of both cities and both had their histories that shaped the development more than planning itself. Me the history buff can learn quite a bit from you the architect. So drop me an email if you are in Hyderabad any time soon and I'll pay for the coffee and snacks . | |
() Thanks |
9th May 2011, 01:12 | #161 | |
Senior - BHPian | Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
In India, the system is very different, we demand everything and sometimes even refuse or fight to pay the nominal parking charges levied by the govt. | |
() Thanks |
|
9th May 2011, 01:58 | #162 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,432
Thanked: 339 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
You forgot to mention this - in Manhattan, not only do you have to pay for parking, getting parking even then is a great hassle. Somebody mentioned something about development of automobile industry - in Shanghai and Beijing you have to pay the equivalent of about Rs. 4L to get a city number plate - without that the car is not allowed in the city. Two wheeler rules are more relaxed, but there are none in the inner cities - I think they might be banned - will find out in the next trip. Public transport system is good, but extremely crowded (just like Bangalore, but not like Mumbai or Delhi). | |
() Thanks |
9th May 2011, 02:03 | #163 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!
Which means that everything comes at a price especially what we expect. Only thing is here we expect everything for free. |
() Thanks |
9th May 2011, 07:40 | #164 | ||
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 7,236
Thanked: 12,301 Times
| Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
Now all of these really make sense because it’s a wise move from the government to restrict private car ownership. And from their side they provide excellent public transport infrastructure (read Bus and Train, the Taxi system is quite inadequate), and in the 11 years of living in Singapore, I never felt that I am handicapped by not owning a car. Quote:
And it’s not about just having a good public transport system. It’s about having a safe and effective public transport system. And I guess that’s a huge challenge we are having. In Singapore, it’s easy because it is smaller than some of the small cities in India. On the contrary, safe public transport is a huge challenge in NY. | ||
() Thanks |
9th May 2011, 09:13 | #165 | |
Senior - BHPian | Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?! Quote:
The rant however is very pertinent. A few things that can be done to improve the situation - If you live in the city limit the size of your car to the size of the parking space and traffic not to the size of your wallet. - Want a powerful car in the city? Get a powerful hatch. - While going for shopping in the city, park your car in some available space a little away from the city center and tramp through the city on foot, autos of buses. Return to your car when you are all done. My two cents. Drive on, Shibu | |
() Thanks |