[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by Visaster

I truly believe people who cannot afford a parking space at their house should not burden the community going ahead and buying a car just because they afford the EMI thanks to the new found job which is over paying for the minuscule effort put by them or whatever.

Lot of hard sentences packed together! So people who don't have parking space, are naturally overpaid and a burden ?

A question: If someone is staying on rent, and there is no parking space provided by the owner of the house. What should he/she do? Never buy car as long as he/she stays there? I stay in a row house colony built around 10-15 yrs back. So there is no dedicated parking anywhere in the locality. Should no one, especially tenant, buy a car there?

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

A question: If someone is staying on rent, and there is no parking space provided by the owner of the house. What should he/she do? Never buy car as long as he/she stays there? I stay in a row house colony built around 10-15 yrs back. So there is no dedicated parking anywhere in the locality. Should no one, especially tenant, buy a car there?

+1. There are a lot of people who cannot afford to buy houses in the near future considering the sky high real estate prices. Obviously we are the mercy of the landlords in this case. As a tenant, I had a parking lot in my previous house, but none in my current one. So now am I burdening the community?

Approaching this from another angle, what brush will I be tarred with if I move into a house which has two parking lots, and I buy another car?
In any case IMHO traffic issues are compounded more due to daytime parking than night time parking, at least where I live.

[Visaster]

Iam sorry but there is a price we have to pay for anything and everything we do directly or indirectly. At some point we need to do what we have to do forced or unforced for a better tomorrow in India. Dont take this against me, just because i say something does not mean everyone is going to follow but it makes a big sense for the best. Think about the outcome.
I have seen below 1yr kids been comfortable taken on a pram on a MRT in Singapore.
When will our public system improve? Only if everyone puts an effort into it by pressurizing the govt. If all of us find our own solution by irresponsibly buying a vehicle even when you clearly cannot afford it (includes of owning a parking space).

I even believe a person who can not afford to buy a four wheeler should not be given the right to have a kid or atleast be banned from the road until the system improves.
I see such awkward sights on the road where a family of 4 trying to squeeze themselves on a bike, Small <1yr kid being carried buy a over sized mother (thanks to the pregnancy weight) trying to balance herself doing some circus stunts when the crazy irresponsible father maneuvers his bike in traffic.

No point in saying we need a better place to live. We need to put it into the LAW system which will take care of things.

If the system goes down on corruption by a chain reaction at different levels, why not a system build itself by a chain of events with a good start.

[bandlimitedlife]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Iam sorry but there is a price we have to pay for anything and everything we do directly or indirectly. At some point we need to do what we have to do forced or unforced for a better tomorrow in India. Dont take this against me, just because i say something does not mean everyone is going to follow but it makes a big sense for the best. Think about the outcome.
I have seen below 1yr kids been comfortable taken on a pram on a MRT in Singapore.
When will our public system improve? Only if everyone puts an effort into it by pressurizing the govt. If all of us find our own solution by irresponsibly buying a vehicle even when you clearly cannot afford it (includes of owning a parking space).

I even believe a person who can not afford to buy a four wheeler should not be given the right to have a kid or atleast be banned from the road until the system improves.
I see such awkward sights on the road where a family of 4 trying to squeeze themselves on a bike, Small <1yr kid being carried buy a over sized mother (thanks to the pregnancy weight) trying to balance herself doing some circus stunts when the crazy irresponsible father maneuvers his bike in traffic.

No point in saying we need a better place to live. We need to put it into the LAW system which will take care of things.

If the system goes down on corruption by a chain reaction at different levels, why not a system build itself by a chain of events with a good start.

I think you are mixing way too many things.

- Simply, what is the point you are trying to make ?
- What is it that you have against people who are paid well on their new job ?
- You mention about a small kid being taken on bike akwardly. As per your statements I think you will feel it is wrong on the part of its parents to buy a car thinking about the safety of the child unless they have dedicated parking space.
- You are talking about excellent public transport and everything. If you happen to visit London you will find excellent public transport but cars parked on both sides of the road and a huge double decker bus trying to squeeze its way through.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Dont take this against me, just because i say something does not mean everyone is going to follow but it makes a big sense for the best. Think about the outcome.

Nothing against you Visaster; just that it does not sound very feasible or correct to base car ownership on night time parking availability.

Originally Posted by Visaster

I even believe a person who can not afford to buy a four wheeler should not be given the right to have a kid or atleast be banned from the road until the system improves.
I see such awkward sights on the road where a family of 4 trying to squeeze themselves on a bike, Small <1yr kid being carried buy a over sized mother (thanks to the pregnancy weight) trying to balance herself doing some circus stunts when the crazy irresponsible father maneuvers his bike in traffic

Well, to be honest, there is no respect for the lives of children on Indian roads. They are not considered as a separate person, and are allowed to ride in laps/ fuel tanks. Now this can be ok as a joy ride perhaps on internal society roads, but not on main thoroughfares, roads with heavy density traffic and worst of all highways. I have seen multiple times kids who are dozing off or just plain tired or even sitting facing the rear. It is totally unfair to them to be driven around like this.

The worst thing which I saw recently was on my trip to Nashik, this guy on a bike (wearing a helmet himself) overtook me when I was doing 85kmph. He had a small girl sitting at the front, who needless to say was not wearing a helmet. To make matters worse, I saw him go further weaving in and out of 80+kmph speeding two way traffic - no dividers.
It seems like he did not value life and limb much, except his own.

The ideal scenario would be to ensure that all vehicles carry only the requisite number of heads (children counted as individual passengers). I am not even getting into the debate of helmets/ seatbelts etc.

[Visaster]

[quote=bandlimitedlife;2341030]I think you are mixing way too many things.

- Simply, what is the point you are trying to make ?
quote]

You are right I am mixing up things.
Simply there should be a law(requisites/taxes/charges) made on owning a car in India which makes people realize its seriousness and the implications it has.

[bandlimitedlife]

[quote=Visaster;2341049]

Originally Posted by bandlimitedlife

I think you are mixing way too many things.

- Simply, what is the point you are trying to make ?
quote]

You are right I am mixing up things.
Simply there should be a law(requisites/taxes/charges) made on owning a car in India which makes people realize its seriousness and the implications it has.

I think that is why there is already a heavy Road Tax. Congestion Charges in Center of City is a good thing to have. However, I thought the problem you were addressing was with parking not with driving

[D-nav]

Govt should implement the existing rules and most of the problems will vanish - just my 2 cents.

[ashphil]

A very interesting thread indeed.
Everyone has the right to own what he wants(in this case, cars) in as many numbers as the system allows him to own provided he can afford them.
Today with lucrative jobs , double salaries and the easy availability of credit most homes have more than one car and in the case of joint families even 4 , 5 or more cars and we are not willing to pay the true costs that go along with ownership.
That unwillingness must change and change it must , by force if neccessary.
Both,the Corporations/Muncipalities and we, the people are to blame for the present mess we have on our hands with regard to parking.
1. Corporations and muncipalities must invest in multi level parking centers. Land belonging to the Muncipality can be provided to the private sector on a build operate and transfer basis. I am not a financial expert and will leave it to the finance guys in this forum to weigh the thought.
2.The Muncipality has marked parking slots on most of the main roads. Can they not go deeper into the residential areas and mark out areas of common parking.This will prevent house owners from quarelling with the road users and increase the usage of the space in front of their homes that the residents are so possessive about.
3. The Development authorities should ensure compliance with norms for parking facilities for all new buildings.
4. Increasing the toll for vehicles as per number of people in the vehicle is a good idea to raise revenues to put in better infrastructure and I am 100% behind that. It will instill a sense of responsibility towards the usage of cars and will defnitely give a fillip to car pooling .Fuel effecient cars may be exempted from this toll or charged a standard rate irrespective of the number of passengers they carry.
4. The manufacturers of cars should be equally concerned too about this problem and should do something constructive to help out with this problem by making generous contributions towards parking infrastucture instead of using lobbying with the Govts to ignore the problem as it will affect their markets and more importantly their bottomline. I recall Hyundai presenting the Tamilnadu Police with quite a few vehicles for patrolling the city. That kind of responsibility would be welcome. Maybe they could build and operate the Multi level parking centers as a subsidiary service to protect their markets!
5.The sooner the Metro rail projects begin to roll the better. Dependence on Mass rapid transport systems is the long term solution to better traffic control and minimisation of parking woes.
6.Taxis and autorickshaws should adher to a "NO REFUSAL" policy during a set period of time to minimise waiting time and inconvenience to passengers.
It will not be long before most of the suggestions and thoughts expressed in this thread are strictly enforced. If not we will leave a mess of gargantuan proportions for the posterity.
Rgds,
Ashok

[vina]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

+1. There are a lot of people who cannot afford to buy houses in the near future considering the sky high real estate prices. Obviously we are the mercy of the landlords in this case. As a tenant, I had a parking lot in my previous house, but none in my current one. So now am I burdening the community?

Approaching this from another angle, what brush will I be tarred with if I move into a house which has two parking lots, and I buy another car?
In any case IMHO traffic issues are compounded more due to daytime parking than night time parking, at least where I live.

Originally Posted by ani_meher

...

A question: If someone is staying on rent, and there is no parking space provided by the owner of the house. What should he/she do? Never buy car as long as he/she stays there? I stay in a row house colony built around 10-15 yrs back. So there is no dedicated parking anywhere in the locality. Should no one, especially tenant, buy a car there?

You are not at the mercy of the landlord - in fact your case is weaker than that of the guys who inherited housing from earlier generations and don't have enough parking as a result (they did not have a choice in the matter)


You chose to rent a house. Why did you choose one that did not have enough parking? and why would you choose one in future that wouldn't have enough parking?

And if you do, how do you think you are justified in your "poor me" attitude above?

[phamilyman]

Its actually quite hilarious. Moving into a house which doesnt have parking doesnt entitle one to the road.

As much as moving into a house with only one bathroom entitles one to use the neighboring park for god's sakes.

My comparison is crass, but resources are resources. No one forced anyone to take up a house with less parking. or in our society - junta with 4 cars to take up a houes with (at max) 2 parkings

[Visaster]

good one Ashphil

"Everyone has the right to own" - My very point is this should change.

It should be made a RULE that - You get to own a car only if you have certain basic requisites fulfilled. (Including ability to own a parking space for it)

Its like having a kid when you clearly don't have a bed for it and you want to exploit the public room.

And the rule can be modified according to the city we are talking about. Makes things so simple, reduces the burden on the road, cleaner environment, lesser fuel consumption, work for better public system...

It has to start some where doesn it - Betterment of India.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by vina

You are not at the mercy of the landlord - in fact your case is weaker than that of the guys who inherited housing from earlier generations and don't have enough parking as a result (they did not have a choice in the matter)

You chose to rent a house. Why did you choose one that did not have enough parking? and why would you choose one in future that wouldn't have enough parking?

And if you do, how do you think you are justified in your "poor me" attitude above?

We chose that house because it was the only one available in that time frame in a decent locality. This isnt the place to start a rant about real estate so I will keep that out. My car is parked from 10pm to 8am on a residential street where clear parking lines are marked. I dont see why or how this inconveniences anybody. This is the parking system designed by the town authorities in that area, and if anyone has an issue with that, then the twon authorities need to be questioned. Not the people who live there. If the parked cars are blocking traffic, then one is sane enough not to park there during traffic hours

If you say I should park in the nearest paid parking lot, this can also be done by people who have inherited houses, they are also dependent on the parking provided by the town planners and in the same situations as tenants/ owners. In this case all are in the same boat. Needless to say, mine is more a short term issue which could be resolved when I move next. I dont see a solution for those living in high density areas/ city roads on a permanent basis unless the town authorities do something or their areas are "re developed"

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Visaster

good one Ashphil

"Everyone has the right to own" - My very point is this should change.

It should be made a RULE that - You get to own a car only if you have certain basic requisites fulfilled. (Including ability to own a parking space for it)

Its like having a kid when you clearly don't have a bed for it and you want to exploit the public room.

And the rule can be modified according to the city we are talking about. Makes things so simple, reduces the burden on the road, cleaner environment, lesser fuel consumption, work for better public system...

It has to start some where doesn it - Betterment of India.

Don't you feel such a piece of legislature will further increase the divide between rich and poor. Invariably if you see the rich are bound to be living in individual houses or lets say bigger houses with more parking spaces. But the mango man or lets say middle class people are the ones who live in a apartment complex. In Delhi most if not all apartment complexes are short on parking places. An apartment costs on an avg 1 crore vs a individual house which would cost an average of 7-8 crores. 2 generations of a family might be over before they can make that jump. Why should they be not allowed cars in this lifetime ?

Sorry for that confusing post. But the answer to these problems are not very easy. A better public transport will ofcourse change the perception of people at large. And this change is happening albeit slowly.

A more feasible modified version of your idea can be to start taxing new cars more. A lot of fellow Bhpians did suggest this already. I feel this will be a much better idea. Selective taxing on your subsequent cars is a better idea.
Tax diesel cars even more.

[vishnurp99]

i would go with visaster's suggestions that you should buy a car only if you have a parking space. This is for purely selfish reasons since for the foreseeable future i do see that we wiill have enough space to park our cars and hence if i can get lesser crowded roads then good for me.

However if i didn't have a parking space there was no way i would have agreed to his point of course he he. In the end this will become a very partisan debate between people who have parking space and who don't have it.

@Sanjaykk Do explore the smaller cities like TVM/Kochi/Mysore/Mangalore/Madurai properly. You never know what you might find.