[normally_crazy]

Brio is not going to be priced below 5-5.5L - if Honda do price it below that....I guess they have watched and learnt.

[wartikars]

Honda cars are not premium segment cars but their cost is at a premium. Also the spares are very extremely costly. Making it difficult to maintain. Indians like more less maintenance cars. Hyundai has realised it and adepted to the situation. They are also becoming fierce competitors for Maruti.

[sumeethaldankar]

So does this mean one should not go for a Honda car in India because of reasons like high prices of fuel and non availability of diesel option (which was never Honda's forte) and premium pricing (which is a result of Indians perception of the Honda brand) ?

[athalaga]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Same goes for selling vehicles cheap. Apart from the fiasco of the hybrid Civics, if Honda reduced prices of their cars just to sell more, they would never be able to hike them up. It's a premium you pay for the Honda brandname.

Honda, Toyota, Mercedes these are all brands which never want to come out with an 'affordable' tag. They are names associated with exclusivity or premium products. So although it would be a dream for Honda to see every Indian driving a Honda, they wouldn't want to actually sell to every Indian.

Honda and Toyota are not in the same premium segment as Mercedes (they have the Accura and Lexus for that). Honda and Toyota are everyday car brands pretty much like Ford or GM in the US.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by athalaga

Honda and Toyota are not in the same premium segment as Mercedes (they have the Accura and Lexus for that). Honda and Toyota are everyday car brands pretty much like Ford or GM in the US.

This thread is about Honda's product positioning in the Indian market, and I believe they do fall under the Premium segment in India, probably barring the City.

Most foreign brands were slow to catch onto the hatchback bandwagon simply because they didn't expect the oil prices would shoot through the roofs so fast. If you consider that it takes a few years to design a new vehicle platform, the rise in the oil prices has been much faster than they could anticipate. And there are so many factors influencing the marketing decisions, it's very difficult to get things spot on when you are neither as exclusive and new a brand like Audi nor a value/volume player like Maruti and Hyundai.

[athalaga]

Originally Posted by honeybee

This thread is about Honda's product positioning in the Indian market, and I believe they do fall under the Premium segment in India, probably barring the City.

So does that mean Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW and AUDI are all in the same segment in India. It comes at a premium, Honda can never be a premium brand, it is an everyday reliable car period.

[vvvinod]

Originally Posted by wartikars

Honda cars are not premium segment cars but their cost is at a premium. Also the spares are very extremely costly. Making it difficult to maintain. Indians like more less maintenance cars. Hyundai has realised it and adepted to the situation. They are also becoming fierce competitors for Maruti.

I agree with you on the ridiculous pricing strategy of Honda India

3 years before Honda used to sell City at Starting price of 6.75 lk , CRV @ 16.5lk , Civic @ 10 , Accord @ 15+

And all of them were Segment leaders, now its a different story



But I beg to differ on service and Parts costs since i own a Santro and NHC VTEC.
Honda City = For a regular service with oil change and oil filter change and other things = COST is R 2285/- ( including Tax)

Santro always cost me same or more

Parts cost i had only one experience ( Touch wood) , Cricket ball broke my left side view mirror of both cars different months in same year. Honda charged me 350/ ( parts+ Labour) but Hyundai charged 700/-

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by athalaga

So does that mean Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW and AUDI are all in the same segment in India. It comes at a premium, Honda can never be a premium brand, it is an everyday reliable car period.

I don't think the Audis and BMWs are gonna be used as "weekend getaway" cars. So I don't understand why you are labelling only the Hondas as "everyday reliable car". Do you mean to imply a Merc owner shouldn't expect his car to be reliable every day?

How do you differentiate between an everyday reliable car segment and a premium segment? Perhaps if you can explain that definition I may be able to see what you are trying to say.

[athalaga]

Originally Posted by honeybee

I don't think the Audis and BMWs are gonna be used as "weekend getaway" cars. So I don't understand why you are labelling only the Hondas as "everyday reliable car". Do you mean to imply a Merc owner shouldn't expect his car to be reliable every day?

How do you differentiate between an everyday reliable car segment and a premium segment? Perhaps if you can explain that definition I may be able to see what you are trying to say.

To each his own. Maybe its premium for you so be it.

[honeybee]

I am still curious to know how you segment Hondas and say Audis.

[Skyline GT-R]

Kochi has 2 Honda dealers; Peninsular Honda (Patel cars) & Cosmic Honda (Koyenco)

Cosmic is planning to leave Honda & trying to get the 2nd VW dealership in Kochi due to drastic reduction in sales.

Lesser dealers is worse than lower sales.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by honeybee

I am still curious to know how you segment Hondas and say Audis.

@honeybee
Consider this: A civic sized equivalents from Mercs(C class), and Audis (A4) cost more then 2 times. An Accord sized cars from these makes (A6 and E class) cost 2 times! That is the kind of gaps they have.

[narula123]

I think its a perfect catch 22 situation for Honda as to protect the positioning and the lineage by remaining purely petrol OR go the way the wind blows and source diesel engines from someone else and have a cut-paste solution to the problem at hand.

In the petrol engined world, Honda is at the top of its game. Period. Even the 2.2 CTDi has won critical acclaim globally. I really cannot fathom why the 'revised' Accord, Civic and CR-V came without this gem of an engine. I for one would buy a diesel engined CRV over a Fortuner anyday, that thing drives like a dream.
Anyways, coming back to the point; being an OHC owner I can vouch for the customer service Honda provides. Atleast my 9-year experience with them has been pleasant throughout and the service quality alone can also convince me to buy a Honda again.
The reliability and quality of a Honda product is beyond reproach and I personally have not come across a dis-satisfied Honda customer.

I believe that the management lost foresight somewhere and did not anticipate the fuel pricing circus that we are witnessing right now. They should have woken up over a couple of years ago when despite a parity in fuel prices, diesel cars were gaining market share steadily. The Superb did it to the Accord and the Cruze gave it to the Civic. Sadly, their thoroughbred City was still on top then, unchallenged by the diesel Fiesta and Verna. Probably that gave them a false sense of security. Too bad that the Germans spoiled the party for them. Tch tch !

With the Hyundai's new Verna and upcoming Sonata sporting class leading diesel engines along with tons of equipment (typical Hyundai) life looks even tougher for the japs. Pray, what will a new DDIS Swift do to an overpriced petrol-only Brio? The new Civic looks ugly and confused and dosnt seem to carry a diesel mill this time around either.

I feel sad for a company whose products and service I love and fanatically advocate. But the writing is on the wall and it dosnt seem too good for Honda unless a diesel deregulation or a 3 cylinder version of the 2.2 CTDi can spell Christmas for them.

My best wishes and prayers are with them.

[shortbread]

@ Narula 123

On what basis is Honda on top of its game when it comes to petrol engines? Can you name one new introduction to their petrol power plants other than variable valve timing. The last really impressive Honda engines were the F20C and the K20, both stopped since they struggle to meet emission norms. Honda was at the top of their game when it came to 4 pot petrols, that's past tense now. Others have caught up or done a one over, almost all the other major MNCs have a hot hatch petrol in their line up but not Honda. Sad I know, but it is true.

Diesels, well they are behind Hyundai in that game let alone any of the European majors. Even a diesel CRV is comparably almost 20% more expensive than a 7 seater diesel Captiva. They are simply just outpricing themselves from the market.

[narula123]

@ shortbread:

I think i was slightly misunderstood. When I said Honda were on top of their game in Petrol engines, I meant that their strength lies in the spark-ignition engines and not the oil burners. Of course it would be stupid to compare the BMWs and Audis of this world to Honda specially when the former have almost Harry Potter levels of wizardry in their engines.

By the way, just a fact that in the past thirteen years of the 'International Engine of the Year' award's existence, Honda has bagged it 22 times which is second only to BMW's 55 (Toyota has 22 too). Speaks something about the company now, doesn't it?

Sadly, it is also a fact that of late they have lost the plot big time and are basically resting on past laurels.