[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by amalji

For me, I'll go for the Etios over the new Swift for the following reasons.

You should compare the Etios with a D-Zire, not the Swift. One is a sedan, the other is a hatch.

D4D is reliable alright but we are talking about a primitive 8V, SOHC D4D engine here. It'll do the job but it does not appeal to the heart at all.

[Bottom Torque]

Guys, Etios and Liva diesel launched today. Here are the prices:

Etios diesel prices
GD @ Rs. 6.44 lakhs
GD safety package @ Rs. 6.99 lakhs
VD @ Rs. 7.41 Lakhs
And VXD @ Rs.7.87 Lakhs
...
Etios LIVA
GD @ Rs.5.54 Lakhs
And GD Safety Package @ 5.84 lakhs

Liva diesel e-brochure http://www.toyotabharat.com/images/liva-diesel.zip

Etios diesel e-brochure http://www.toyotabharat.com/images/etios-diesel.zip

[amalji]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

You should compare the Etios with a D-Zire, not the Swift. One is a sedan, the other is a hatch.

When I mentioned Etios and Swift, I meant Etios family and Swift family.
To be more precise, I booked the new Swift 2011, Liva Diesel, and Etios Diesel to get the early priority. About to cancel new Swift now.

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

D4D is reliable alright but we are talking about a primitive 8V, SOHC D4D engine here. It'll do the job but it does not appeal to the heart at all.

For me more than being modern, what really matters is how it performs on the road. I still love the old Esteem & Baleno Engines. So, do I love the K-Series Maruti and DDiS.

With regards to D-4D, the reliability and durability is proven. It can easily manage 3 to 4 Lakh kms hassle free. The older technology is made up with a larger engine. It's the same philosophy that Toyota employed in the Petrol Etios. The engine is from an older technology. But, the end result is best in class by providing a bigger engine.

And drive quality, even though it doesn't give the 'kick' of Swift DDiS, it should be a good performer. Stable torque of 170Nm from 1800 rpm till 2400 rpm is decent enough and even better than the Figo ( which I love driving ). Add to that the lighter kerb weight of the Liva and Etios compared to Figo or even the new lighter Swift.

But again, all this is in theory. Before, I cancel the new Swift, I'll have to take a test drive of the D-4D Etios ( Etios Family that is ).

[mohandas]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

we are talking about a primitive 8V, SOHC D4D engine here. It'll do the job but it does not appeal to the heart at all.

we???
But auto pundits have different view than yours. JFYI, SOHC just alone can't make an engine primitive (Honda engine is also SOHC, but can I call it primitive?). Similarly 8V and 16V also can't make an engine primitive.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by Bottom Torque

Guys, Etios and Liva diesel launched today. Here are the prices:

Etios diesel prices
GD @ Rs. 6.44 lakhs
GD safety package @ Rs. 6.99 lakhs
VD @ Rs. 7.41 Lakhs
And VXD @ Rs.7.87 Lakhs
...
Etios LIVA
GD @ Rs.5.54 Lakhs
And GD Safety Package @ 5.84 lakhs

Pricing spot bang in the Swift/Dzire and Vista/Manza range.

With the Toyota badge and image of bullet-proof reliability, fairly decent exteriors (in the right colours), I think Toyota's got a winner. Expect to see a fairly major jump in sales for both these models, and a stagnant-at-best Vista/Manza sales.

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by mohandas

we???
But auto pundits have different view than yours. JFYI, SOHC just alone can't make an engine primitive (Honda engine is also SOHC, but can I call it primitive?). Similarly 8V and 16V also can't make an engine primitive.

Auto pundits?

We are discussing about diesel engines here. Lets not even talk about Honda.When almost every other diesel engine around is a DOHC, 16V (except Micra) why offer such a stripped down version in the Etios twins? The Altis D from which this engine is derived also has a DOHC, 16V engine. They are anyway doing away with the VGT. Just my opinion.

[VeluM]

@ fuel_addict: I think the primary and possibly only reason is cost. The Etios and Liva are competitively priced, and Toyota probably feels that providing a slightly higher capacity engine makes up for the lack of tech.

Most people only consider the capacity and FE of an engine.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by VeluM

@ fuel_addict: I think the primary and possibly only reason is cost. The Etios and Liva are competitively priced, and Toyota probably feels that providing a slightly higher capacity engine makes up for the lack of tech.

Most people only consider the capacity and FE of an engine.

In my case, I consider the output of an engine - ie, torque curve, max torque, fe and durability. Capacity and/or technology used doesn't matter at all as long as you get the required outputs. 170 Nm flat torque from 1800 to 2400 rpm is decent especially on a light vehicle like the etios.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by fuel_addict

Auto pundits?

We are discussing about diesel engines here. Lets not even talk about Honda.When almost every other diesel engine around is a DOHC, 16V (except Micra) why offer such a stripped down version in the Etios twins? The Altis D from which this engine is derived also has a DOHC, 16V engine. They are anyway doing away with the VGT. Just my opinion.

Altis D is also a SOHC with 8V. The 1.4 1ND-TV is available only with this setting.

[Durango Dude]

With so many complaints regards harsh NVH in petrol Etios may be I'll take a TD first and wait for some other guy to give me a feed back than dive headlong with only the T badge as my safety belt.

[mo1]

Just back from the DSK Toyota showroom, Pune.
Etios Liva Diesel(G) OTR Pune - 6.23 lacs, For G+option pack- 6.57 lacs
TD vehicle will be available in a week's time.booking amount - 50K
They are quoting 2-3 months as the waiting period as of now. There will be more clarity in few days.
I TDed the petrol Liva which was there.
Things I liked:
- Excellent drivability(sleek gear shift,good low end,nice steering,great seating position,smooth clutch,good brakes). I drove in Pune city only.
- The center console is not as bad I had earlier thought. It doesn't distract you much. Only thing is the small indicators(seat belt,handbrake etc) are fitted in a tiny slot below the speedo so it will need some getting used to.
- cooling seemed sufficient. had to move the knob to "2" at times.
- decent ride quality. did not notice much vibrations/noise inside the cabin.
Things which I disliked:
- Getting in and out of the driver's seat was not easiest(I am 5'9'') but it's ok
- back seat head rests are useless for people of my height. I tried even sliding a bit but still I could not rest my head onto that. need the adjustable head rests.
The salesperson said that one needs 3000KM/PM if going for a diesel else should go for petrol!

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by mo1

Just back from the DSK Toyota showroom, Pune.
Etios Liva Diesel(G) OTR Pune - 6.23 lacs, For G+option pack- 6.57 lacs
TD vehicle will be available in a week's time.booking amount - 50K
They are quoting 2-3 months as the waiting period as of now. There will be more clarity in few days.
I TDed the petrol Liva which was there.

Thanks mate for sharing your TD experience of the Liva. Wish you could have got the Liva D to test. And yes congratulations for your first post over here, welcome to TBHP.

Originally Posted by mo1

The salesperson said that one needs 3000KM/PM if going for a diesel else should go for petrol!

I fail to understand why the salespersons dissuade the customers from going for a diesel. They shouldn't at least for the well educated ones who can do their own calculations & decide for themselves

[amalji]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

I fail to understand why the salespersons dissuade the customers from going for a diesel. They shouldn't at least for the well educated ones who can do their own calculations & decide for themselves

It's the same with Maruti as well. The reason seems to be that diesels are very easy to sell. Or maybe, the margins are higher for petrol. As per my calculations, there is no reason why someone who runs 600 kms or more should go for petrol!

[mo1]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Thanks mate for sharing your TD experience of the Liva. Wish you could have got the Liva D to test. And yes congratulations for your first post over here, welcome to TBHP.

Thanks @AutoIndian
Few more thoughts about my time spent with the etios Liva petrol today.
I am really a layman when it comes to gauging/judging interior quality and fit and finish.It is not that I can not differentiate between good and poor interior quality,fit and finish,plastic quality etc but it's just that it is lower on my priority list and hence I am not that much concerned. Coming to the Liva, I felt that the fit and finish is good and also the interior quality. Just that it doesn't give you a secured feeling. Just before the Liva, I sat into the new VISTA and Punto and there, I had a better secured feeling. So, in Liva, it all "feels" very light and thin. I mean the doors,seats and all.So for a city commute, it should be fine but I will need to see how it feels beyond 80kmph you know.

The sales executive did say that the initial niggles faced in Etios sedan,with regards to NVH, have been sorted out but then, it would really help if Liva owners post their ownership experience, so it would help prospective buyers(including me!) to decide.

[oxyzen]

Note from Mod : Team-BHP's Etios diesel review has been added at this link. Please continue the discussion over on the review thread. Thanks

The Liva looks like a better proposal in the diesel avatar. Same engine, less kerb weight and somewhat better design. Had it not been for the crappy interiors the Liva could be the best selling diesel hatch in India.

Originally Posted by amalji

It's the same with Maruti as well. The reason seems to be that diesels are very easy to sell. Or maybe, the margins are higher for petrol. As per my calculations, there is no reason why someone who runs 600 kms or more should go for petrol!

Very true.
Diesels cost 3 Rs/km
Petrol costs 6 Rs/km
So you can save 21.6K/year.

Assuming diesel cars cost 1L more, & the interest on 1L is 8K.
And for extra maintenance, insurance etc consider another 3.5K annually.

Still you save 10K per year.
Now when it comes to resale, the 1L price difference will reduce to somewhere like 50K after 5 years. So there you got your money back with a mere 600Km/month usage.