[justin.das]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Renault is not really that small! and I am not sure it includes the numbers for Nissan

Category - Renault - Fiat
Production output - 3,195,810 -2,094,048
Revenue - €42.628 billion - 35.88 billion
Operating income - €635 million - 992 million
Profit - €3.42 billion - 179 million
Total assets - €70.11 billion - 73.44 billion
Total equity - €22.76 billion - 12.46 billion
Employees - 128,322 - 137,800

In my limited knowledge of accounting each company is a separate entity and the data listed above will be of a specific company. For clarification Fiat Auto Spa sales income and expense does not includes fiat india profit and expense.Each company keeps its on balance sheet and other details.So in my point of view we can't compare two brand with this list of statitics.

[SkyWalker]

I think FIAT will lose more than they gain by moving out of Tata. Access to a wide service network such as Tata is almost priceless and I doubt if FIAT is in a shape to even get 10% of those many service centres pan India. At best - they will remain a Niche player in India - in top tier cities.

In the end Fiat S.p.A should do some soul searching to see if they have capable management team in India. They had their big chance with Linea & GP - but they totally messed it up. And what exactly did they do in 3 years when they knew market did not take it well? - increase Ground Clearance by 20 mm

There's still an opportunity - they can get bigger capacity engines - They can work on becoming the engine supplier of choice and build a brand name. They can launch cars like Viaggio - but they need to get up from the ditch and keep *moving*.

[ron_9191]

This had to happen at some point of time. All we can do is just wait and watch. I am really wondering what happens to people who already own the beautiful Linea and the Punto where would they run to for service?

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by justin.das

In my limited knowledge of accounting each company is a separate entity and the data listed above will be of a specific company. For clarification Fiat Auto Spa sales income and expense does not includes fiat india profit and expense.Each company keeps its on balance sheet and other details.So in my point of view we can't compare two brand with this list of statitics.

I agree justin.das; hence I did not go into details of corporate reporting and excluding Nissan etc. which would have been a proper comparo with all group companies etc.

The stats were only put up as facts didnt agree with a statement that Renault is small.

[nanduchitnis]

Originally Posted by ron_9191

This had to happen at some point of time. All we can do is just wait and watch. I am really wondering what happens to people who already own the beautiful Linea and the Punto where would they run to for service?

Private Service Centers who service all brands of cars is the answer. Provided that they have access to spares from Fiat Company.

[prkiran]

Originally Posted by SkyWalker

I think FIAT will lose more than they gain by moving out of Tata. Access to a wide service network such as Tata is almost priceless and I doubt if FIAT is in a shape to even get 10% of those many service centres pan India. At best - they will remain a Niche player in India - in top tier cities.

I beg to differ here. Even while they had access to Tata's service network, the sales team was not doing them any good. I personally know of instances where people who went in to check out Punto or Linea were told by the sales personnel to take a look at Indica or Manza instead.

[fouzan.ashraf]

What FIAT seems to have forgotten is that it is TATA that propelled them to a JDP CSI position of No. 2: an unprecedented event in the history of the brand.
Anyway, it has been very clear that FIAT customers had started to appreciate the value of their service and this was starting to lift up the value of the FIAT brand as well: any new product launch from now on would have done well. For this reason, FIAT should have waited for a NEW LAUNCH to gauge what Tata has done to support the brand. This new move at this juncture looks to be a little bit hasty and unwarranted.

Of course the big planners at the helm of these companies definitely know better than us. As a FIAT owner, would hope this would somehow magically revive their prowess in the country.

[justin.das]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

The stats were only put up as facts didnt agree with a statement that Renault is small.

Fiat group is indeed very large when compared to renault.In my knowledge VW is the only group which is as big as Fiat group or even comparable by sheer size.Fiat SPA italy is the parent company with more than 100 year of heritage.As every enthusiast know the list of subsidaries. The fiat group owns(Alfa Romeo,Maserati,Ferrari,Lancia,Abarth) with recent acquired Jeep,Dodge,Ram,Chysler,Mopar,SRT (58.5 %)other than these Teskid:worlds largest iron refinery,Comau:Automated robots(mahines which makes machines).Magnetti Marelli one of the world most reputed component manufacturer(client database includes VW group,renault,mercedes,bmw in detail almost every one).Iveco and iveco subsidaries and many more .Renault is not at all comparable

[RavenAvi]

Never seen so much Fiat-bashing in one place.

Guys, people who are running Fiat/Fiat India are not novices. They are also smart, qualified people with good, aggressive business-sense and like every other company out there, they are in the market to make profits. Nobody would want to be associated with a loss-making company. If that was the case then Fiat employees would be jumping out from their jobs like rats deserting a sinking ship.

So, before giving Fiat a big thumbs down even before they have started their new journey, let's give them a chance first. A year down the line, examining the implementations of Fiat's new ideas would be more plausible. Till then, let's see how the market reacts to Fiat's changes.

IMO, the Fiat Caffe is a splendid idea. It gives the prospecting customers a chance to experience the Fiat cars first-hand while taking sips of that fantastic Italian coffee. And it IS indeed the company directly interacting with customers, now that dedicated dealers across the country will be dealing directly with Fiat and with prospects - with nobody else in the equation. Also, it helps to impress in a prospect's mindset when he sees ONLY Fiat cars around him, not hidden or overwhelmed in numbers by another company's cars. It's easy to veer off a Fiat prospect towards an Indian manufacturer's car by promising him all sorts of things, specially those whose brains are cocooned with a "playing it safe" attitude.

Let's see the Sales Figures for the next 8-10 months. If there is no improvement then we will know that nothing Fiat can do can save them, BUT if there IS improvement, then it will become a fact that the "Caffe" idea (and any/all subsequent ideas, regarding A.S.S., etc.) works.

[Slick]

A lot of FIAT owners have expressed concern over service availability post the split. I think FIAT would have a long grace period in which they shift from TASS to their own Service. So although it is a big concern I doubt it is an immediate issue.
Oh But the attitude of TASS towards FIAT customers in this grace period would be interesting.

Still I feel a good decision by FIAT - If they can execute it.

I also have a question. Why cant FIAT provide over the counter spares the way Maruti does? Wouldnt it give owners more confidence?

Is it related to production limitations or policy to make sure all FIAT cars are serviced at A*S*S*

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by justin.das

Fiat group is indeed very large when compared to renault.In my knowledge VW is the only group which is as big as Fiat group or even comparable by sheer size.Fiat SPA italy is the parent company with more than 100 year of heritage.

I am not talking about heritage or history. Lets look at volumes (2010)
Automotive industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The above list of top vehicle manufacturing groups (includes all subsidiaries) by volume puts Nissan at 6, Renault at 10 and Fiat at 11.

Originally Posted by justin.das

Renault is not at all comparable

I dont see why Renault is not comparable. If there are numbers to prove otherwise, I would be glad to be shown that picture

Let me repeat myself, I feel this is an assertive move by Fiat. But lets not beat other manufacturers as small here. That would only mean underestimating competition and their deep pockets/ long term plans.

[dot]

Slightly modifying what Buffet said, one day fools will run a company. That is very true with my own experience as a employee of two Fortune 100 organizations.

Companies are run by people, people like you and me. People take decisions. People make mistakes.

Whether Fiat will succeed with this current move is left to be seen. But I dont think we can say that it will certainly fail or yield great results. That Tata association was not working was pretty evident to anyone who has gone for a TD of a Fiat vehicle in a Tata showroom. Hope the new move is for the better. Comeback stories are plenty. But it requires loads of bold decisions.

Frankly I think this discussion is going nowhere. Request moderators to close the thread.

[justin.das]

Originally Posted by justin.das

Fiat group is indeed very large when compared to renault.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

I am not talking about heritage or history. Lets look at volumes (2010)
Automotive industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The above list of top vehicle manufacturing groups (includes all subsidiaries) by volume puts Nissan at 6, Renault at 10 and Fiat at 11.

I dont see why Renault is not comparable. If there are numbers to prove otherwise, I would be glad to be shown that picture

Sorry it's all misunderstanding.what I compared was how big fiat group is by size not by sale volume I have quoted the lines above.sales up's and downs are all part of the industry .maruthi sells better than Volkswagen that doesn't means maruthi is bigger than vw.

[svsantosh]

Is this bad news or good news? Only time will tell. Its like the dialouge of the movie Blue Streak - "Do you want to end up in a US Jail or a Mexico Jail"...!!

[kiku007]

Does anyone have any idea on what cars FIAT India is going to show their prospective dealers? Please don't tell me, it's the same Punto and Linea. They are just going to run.

They need to show them a lineup of cars that they are planning to launch in the next 2-5 years. It takes 12+ months for Ford to announce a car launch and then actually sell it and it's 18++ months for GM. Now in, FIAT's case I haven't heard of anything on their next product.

So how are the dealers expected to make money?

1. Sell Puntos and Lineas for the next X no. of years until a new product comes.
2. Open the showroom when FIAT is close to launching their next product.
3. Service FIAT cars. But how many are there in the road anyways?

Bottonmline: There's NO EYECANDY with FIAT to lure a person to open a FIAT Dealership. If FIAT is able to pull this off successfully, it will become part of MBA curriculum. Good luck FIAT.