[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by parrys

Manza Club Class Interiors:

Awesome pics!

Especially the beach view...


But I felt (my personal opinion) - that the interior pics don't do justice to the lovely feel it exudes in reality.

I felt, maybe too much flash, changes the colour / shade of deep black used as well as the silver fascia.

IMHO - I LOVED the Manza Club Class. Totally drool worthy.

Me & my entire family - kept nudging me to get our year old Celebration Edition Manza upgraded or exchanged for club class.

It is simply jaw dropping good - and I feel it deserves a new review (maybe just a comparison) on Team BHP as it is a MAJOR change at a more or less same price point.

What say?

[harishpr]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Awesome pics!

Especially the beach view...

But I felt (my personal opinion) - that the interior pics don't do justice to the lovely feel it exudes in reality.

I felt, maybe too much flash, changes the colour / shade of deep black used as well as the silver fascia.

IMHO - I LOVED the Manza Club Class. Totally drool worthy.

Me & my entire family - kept nudging me to get our year old Celebration Edition Manza upgraded or exchanged for club class.

It is simply jaw dropping good - and I feel it deserves a new review (maybe just a comparison) on Team BHP as it is a MAJOR change at a more or less same price point.

What say?

Manza will sell better with good suspensions. This is coming from Manza owner. I recently moved to civic, and Hondas build and ride quality is light years away from tatas.
Manza is an amazing package, except for the ride quality.

[tajender]

Originally Posted by tajender

I know, the price is pretty steep, only advantage being that its a perfect fit in the dash. I am yet to lay my hands on it. I will take a not of all the specs once I get to lay my hands on it as am planning to upgrade the HU in my Manza too provided am able to negotiate the price down to something reasonable but my brother is going to have it installed in his Manza for sure.

Apologies for being too late to reply, was busy shifting my home and health issues with this changing weather in this part of the country. Finally, my brother's Manza was delivered on 24th November. He got the stereo installed on the next day i.e. the 25th. My brother kept telling me that the stereo that will be installed in his Manza is the same as that in club class however on 25th I came to know that they are installing Map My India stereo with touchscreen and bluetooth. The unit is good and they have priced it pretty steep at 42K. I inquired if they will install the unit that comes with Club Class, the SA told me that its still not available as an accessory. The SA promised to get back to me with the pricing of the Club Class HU and am still waiting on him for that.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by harishpr

Manza will sell better with good suspensions. This is coming from Manza owner. I recently moved to civic, and Hondas build and ride quality is light years away from tatas.
Manza is an amazing package, except for the ride quality.

The BUILD quality of a Honda can definitely not be compared to Tata
but suspension?
Really??
Given the Manza's independent suspension and better GC - it has made for an EXTREMELY comfortable ride so far!
Maybe you should get the suspension checked while getting that ARB bush replaced. (does away with rattles)

Originally Posted by tajender

Apologies for being too late to reply, was busy shifting my home and health issues with this changing weather in this part of the country. Finally, my brother's Manza was delivered on 24th November. He got the stereo installed on the next day i.e. the 25th. My brother kept telling me that the stereo that will be installed in his Manza is the same as that in club class however on 25th I came to know that they are installing Map My India stereo with touchscreen and bluetooth. The unit is good and they have priced it pretty steep at 42K. I inquired if they will install the unit that comes with Club Class, the SA told me that its still not available as an accessory. The SA promised to get back to me with the pricing of the Club Class HU and am still waiting on him for that.

Most Tata dealers have informed me that it is available at their Blaupunkt centers.

[jessie007]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Given the Manza's independent suspension and better GC - it has made for an EXTREMELY comfortable ride so far!

Dr.Suraj - Manza never had independent suspension at the rear (most cars have independent suspension at the front though). The old Indigo (pre 2007 I believe) and for that matter even the Indica had independent suspension. But the current crop of 'Indi' series don't have independent rear suspension, they have a hatchback like twist beam set up with coil sprigs and hydraulic shock absorbers.

Having said that the Manza has a cushy / soft suspension set-up, which most of the Tata cars have and they are quite comfortable at low speeds in the city atleast. On the highway on less than perfect roads, the car will have a tendency to bob about and have pronounced body roll on turns due to the soft suspension - this is the case for an enthusiastic driver, but for the average person the difference won't be perceptible enough.

The Civic has a slightly more complex set-up with double wishbones which is an independent rear suspension set-up and hence would be more comfortable to ride on the rear seats. Also the Civic has a longer wheelbase at 2700 mm vs Manza's 2520 mm, which plays a role in overall comfort. Though both cars weight exactly 1210 kgs (petrol Civic & diesel Manza), and the planted feel on highways would be similar with the Civic having an edge with a slightly wider track and body.

It is well known though that the Civic's suspension bottoms out easily on bad roads or when with a full complement of passengers. Also the Civic is quite low, so ingress & egress are definitely not easy and the Manza would definitely be comfortable on that front atleast.

It is to be noted that one is comparing a Rs 6-8 lakh car with a Rs. 12-14 lakh car - i.e. double the price!

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by jessie007

Dr.Suraj - Manza never had independent suspension at the rear (most cars have independent suspension at the front though). The old Indigo (pre 2007 I believe) and for that matter even the Indica had independent suspension. But the current crop of 'Indi' series don't have independent rear suspension, they have a hatchback like twist beam set up with coil sprigs and hydraulic shock absorbers.

Having said that the Manza has a cushy / soft suspension set-up, which most of the Tata cars have and they are quite comfortable at low speeds in the city atleast. On the highway on less than perfect roads, the car will have a tendency to bob about and have pronounced body roll on turns due to the soft suspension - this is the case for an enthusiastic driver, but for the average person the difference won't be perceptible enough.

The Civic has a slightly more complex set-up with double wishbones which is an independent rear suspension set-up and hence would be more comfortable to ride on the rear seats. Also the Civic has a longer wheelbase at 2700 mm vs Manza's 2520 mm, which plays a role in overall comfort. Though both cars weight exactly 1210 kgs (petrol Civic & diesel Manza), and the planted feel on highways would be similar with the Civic having an edge with a slightly wider track and body.

It is well known though that the Civic's suspension bottoms out easily on bad roads or when with a full complement of passengers. Also the Civic is quite low, so ingress & egress are definitely not easy and the Manza would definitely be comfortable on that front atleast.

It is to be noted that one is comparing a Rs 6-8 lakh car with a Rs. 12-14 lakh car - i.e. double the price!

Wow! That is quite a well worded explanation!

Thank you!

Cannot argue that we are discussing a C segment and D segment car.

Also cannot negate that the Manza is AS comfortable as it gets in the C segment. Leg room, seating posture, ingress, egress, lumbar support and overall roomy feeling when coupled with leather seats makes quite a formidable case for a 9L chauffer driven Diesel sedan.

An enthusiastic driver may not be lured by just the creature comforts (read BT, steering controlls for voice calls & music) and some other goodies) as the car is not a performance driven bit - but probably the 2nd best utilization of the Fiat 1.3 MJD (1st being the Swift Dzire I believe) in sedans.
Turbo lag not intrusive, frugal, extremely good FE and in my experience cruises at 155 kmph without a whimper.

Bad roads - had a small share of those too but sure if I would qualify the Manza as 'unsettling' in these conditions. Sure it's no SUV. But doesn't make me think twice before plonking it on such conditions. It does inspire that wee bit of confidence that he can handle it.

I was told by not 1 but 2 service advisors at a T.A.S.S. that it has independent rear suspension (Manza).
While checking on the Manza website tech specs - confirmed exactly what you said:

except - they do use the word 'semi-independent' !!!

Classic case of that idiom - there are 3 sides to everything - yours, the other persons & the right one.

[pat2kin]

Hey guys,

My first post. First off, you guys have got a great forum here and I am a big fan. Now that I am trying to upgrade from Wagon-r (2006) to an entry level diesel sedan, t-bhp has been very helpful in the hunt.

So, after some analysis and TDs, I have zeroed in on Manza (club class). I am looking at the VX variant. Everything is good, I liked it (ticks most of my requirements), the family likes it, well within our budget etc.

The most important thing that's stopping me is reliability and A.S.S (my Wagon-r has given me just one major problem in close to 7 years of ownership). I definitely don't want the car to be spending a lot of time in the service center. I've been reading through lot of posts on the forum and most of the experience people have had is, BAD. I was laughing so hard when someone in the forum said "With TATA, the service can only be bad, worse or worst". So, here are my questions

1. Has the TATA service improved over the past few years?

2. Is club class a different product when compared to the previous gen Manza. I am guessing its not, but the sales man (at Concorde, Dairy circle, Bangalore) was trying hard to convince me that it is. He was giving me reasons like
a. When you bring the car to service, it gets a special treatment, gets assigned to a different bay, club class is considered at par with Aria etc (ok, I didn't believe him completely, but he did sound like an honest man)
b. Highly influenced by research team at Jaguar Land Rover (he still sounded like an honest man )

3. Has the quality of vehicles improved over the past couple of years?

4. If I go ahead with Manza, what are some of the things I should look out /educate myself? Which is the best (or least problematic ) service center in South Bangalore?

5. The cost he provided (9.04 OTR Bangalore, not considering the discounts) did not include EX-Warranty, Gold-Value care prices. When I inquired, he said that TATA Motors has still not come out with the prices/scheme since its a new model. My next question was, "When will they" to which he replied "Not sure" which sounded a little strange.

Appreciate your help in this regard.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by pat2kin

Hey guys,

My first post. First off, you guys have got a great forum here and I am a big fan. Now that I am trying to upgrade from Wagon-r (2006) to an entry level diesel sedan, t-bhp has been very helpful in the hunt.

So, after some analysis and TDs, I have zeroed in on Manza (club class). I am looking at the VX variant. Everything is good, I liked it (ticks most of my requirements), the family likes it, well within our budget etc.

The most important thing that's stopping me is reliability and A.S.S (my Wagon-r has given me just one major problem in close to 7 years of ownership). I definitely don't want the car to be spending a lot of time in the service center. I've been reading through lot of posts on the forum and most of the experience people have had is, BAD. I was laughing so hard when someone in the forum said "With TATA, the service can only be bad, worse or worst". So, here are my questions

1. Has the TATA service improved over the past few years?

2. Is club class a different product when compared to the previous gen Manza. I am guessing its not, but the sales man (at Concorde, Dairy circle, Bangalore) was trying hard to convince me that it is. He was giving me reasons like
a. When you bring the car to service, it gets a special treatment, gets assigned to a different bay, club class is considered at par with Aria etc (ok, I didn't believe him completely, but he did sound like an honest man)
b. Highly influenced by research team at Jaguar Land Rover (he still sounded like an honest man )

3. Has the quality of vehicles improved over the past couple of years?

4. If I go ahead with Manza, what are some of the things I should look out /educate myself? Which is the best (or least problematic ) service center in South Bangalore?

5. The cost he provided (9.04 OTR Bangalore, not considering the discounts) did not include EX-Warranty, Gold-Value care prices. When I inquired, he said that TATA Motors has still not come out with the prices/scheme since its a new model. My next question was, "When will they" to which he replied "Not sure" which sounded a little strange.

Appreciate your help in this regard.

I will try to be as unbiased as possible.

My 1st car was a 2005 Indica V2 Lxi Petrol ! - Yes - A Tata Petrol.
And it wasn't a bad car - but a PAINFUL experience.

And I kinda swore never to buy Tata again.

But in October 2011 - After having test driven close to 15 hatches & sedans - I fell in love with the Manza and bought a Celebration Edition Manza Elan Quadrajet 90.
Why?

Here : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...n-edition.html


Now - the service has improved SOOOO much in the last 1 year,
Posts on service: ( http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...edition-7.html )
that I blindly bought a special edition Nano LX last month - based on just that.

That the AMC and the amazing service - means total peace of mind.

With the added advantage of VFM and most often than not - best in class features for the price point.

Coming to the Club Class - having test driven it and 'felt' it 1st hand .... WOW!

Wish I could upgrade my Manza - it just BEAUTIFUL !!!
The upholstery, climate control, touchscreen.

It is still missing -
Rearview camera
Parking sensors
Auto-closing mirrors
Rear Air-con
Left front arm rest
Light and cooling in glove box
and
Sunroof.

As you can see - I am asking too much - all this would make it an 'ideal and complete car'.

But as of now - it has awesome comfort and space, good power, extremely nice fuel efficiency in diesel - really cheap to run and with the AMC you are well covered for almost anything.
Features are impressive too.


What is negative:

The brand value of Tata - people still tend to look down, and I think it will still take a year or 2 - for all their efforts to change their image. They are earnestly trying and as a customer I am happy that they are atleast attempting.
(Be ready to oohed and wowed - by all the people who are skeptical of Tata cars - but when they rest comfortably in the backseat .... they all go WOW! and they can't believe its a Tata)

The re-sale value of Tata - again this will change soon and if you go back into Tata the exchange bonus etc. make up for it.

Fit and finish - this HAS significantly improved and not really an issue in the Manza

Plastic quality - again constantly improving across all cars. Yet not at the same level as germans. But still better than Maruti.


Answer to some of the specific questions you have asked:

1. I am not sure about Manza getting such a high previlige as Aria. They do treat us better. And yes Aria does have even better service (like the XUV owners have a purple class).
Tata is trying to offer more to the 'luxury segment' like Aria and give them a one up over the Indicas and the Nanos.
MAYBE - they have started this for the Manza as well. Manza Club Class - is almost into the C2 segment and is quite luxurious

2. Concorde motors - in general - is quite trustworthy as wholly owned subsidiary of TML and best service I have EVER experienced in my life so far.
And yes - at the Concorde service centers - The JLR (Laguar Land Rover) vehicles are serviced in the same are (not the same bay) but basically front entrance would be TML and read would be JLR and technicians sometimes are common. Body shop is common (as seen by me in the TCRS, Worli)

3. Accountability - they cannot lie to you. And if you find ANY service deficient at any point of time - 1 email to the company at any address. Guaranteed response. Everytime. And immediate action too.

4. Which is good in Banglore - I think reading around a few reviews on the Team BHP will definitely tell you that.

All the best. Do read the many threads dedicated to Manza. Even the list of problems faced. It is minimal so far and most have been sorted out.

This is a good time to buy a Tata vehicle. Because more than 3 years on the road. So all issues are sorted out. New upgrades already offered. So you get the most reliable and loaded product - total VFM.

[pat2kin]

Thank you very much for the detailed reply, Dr.Suraj.

One thing to note about the VX variant of club class is, electrically adjustable ORVM is missing! Now, that's such a basic/useful thing missing from a 9L car ( when they boast of integrated GPS which I think is luxury). Surprisingly, the VX variant of Vista has it

Went for another test drive today and found that the rear doors were "squeaky" when opening/closing. I didn't expect that in a car that has been driven just 170Kms (even though it was a TD car). Also, there was a noise coming from the rear when going over humps. When inquired, they said "the seats have not been fitted properly"!

Also, I think this huge exchange bonus (40K) that they advertise is a "scam". They reduce the exchange value of your car. My Wagon-r (2006 model) easily fetches 1.90L outside (checked with 'Toyota U Trust' and 'Maruti True Value') while Tata says the max that they can stretch to is 1.70L.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by pat2kin

Thank you very much for the detailed reply, Dr.Suraj.

One thing to note about the VX variant of club class is, electrically adjustable ORVM is missing! Now, that's such a basic/useful thing missing from a 9L car ( when they boast of integrated GPS which I think is luxury). Surprisingly, the VX variant of Vista has it

Went for another test drive today and found that the rear doors were "squeaky" when opening/closing. I didn't expect that in a car that has been driven just 170Kms (even though it was a TD car). Also, there was a noise coming from the rear when going over humps. When inquired, they said "the seats have not been fitted properly"!

Also, I think this huge exchange bonus (40K) that they advertise is a "scam". They reduce the exchange value of your car. My Wagon-r (2006 model) easily fetches 1.90L outside (checked with 'Toyota U Trust' and 'Maruti True Value') while Tata says the max that they can stretch to is 1.70L.

Are you sure?

When I took a TD of the Manza Club class - the ORVM knob was very much there. Just like it is in my Manza. And the Sales Executive even commented that they have not given Auto Folding mirrors like i20, but they have give electronically operated.

Most of this is Tata - the cars really smoothen out after the 1st service and the engine too becomes much more enjoyable after the 1st 5k kms.

Yes, they do some external sealant / packing / foam cushioning to the seats to eliminate that 'play' noise between the metal frame and the parcel tray.
Whenever you go for your 1st service or even in between, they attend to that if required. But it takes a day atleast.
For some reason they are not able to rectify at the factory level! :(

So they are offering 1.70L + 40 k?

So you still stand to gain 20k?

When I sold my Indica to them, I was getting 55k outside, they offered me 40k + 25k exchange bonus.

So I sold it to them based on
1. Still getting 10k more than outside
2. Less headache - same dealer, reliable, safe - can be assured my Car will not be used for anti-social activity or any such thing
3. Hassle free. Sell at 1 place. Buy from another. Run 2 places. Documentation etc. etc. Knew the dealers since 6 years - so kind of trust issue.

You gain peace of mind - AND some more money.
You don't really LOOSE anything.
Just don't think of it as an 'offer' at the face value.

[pat2kin]

Are you sure?

Yes, please note that I am talking about the VX variant. Your TD should have been on EX or EXL which do have it.

So they are offering 1.70L + 40 k?

So you still stand to gain 20k?

I agree. But, I would be happy if they marketed it as 20K exchange bonus. You go all the way to the showroom expecting it to be a "very good offer" and realize finally that it is not really that great. So, you get a feeling that you have been cheated!

Thanks for you patient replies, Dr.Suraj. I finally backed out of the plan to buy a diesel car and bought a Honda City CE instead. With the latest news about diesel prices hikes, I guess I made a good decision.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by pat2kin

Yes, please note that I am talking about the VX variant. Your TD should have been on EX or EXL which do have it.


I agree. But, I would be happy if they marketed it as 20K exchange bonus. You go all the way to the showroom expecting it to be a "very good offer" and realize finally that it is not really that great. So, you get a feeling that you have been cheated!

Thanks for you patient replies, Dr.Suraj. I finally backed out of the plan to buy a diesel car and bought a Honda City CE instead. With the latest news about diesel prices hikes, I guess I made a good decision.

Oh!
Okay.

Shall go back and check about the VX asap.

Indeed, Honda City - especially now with the MAJOR MUCH needed additions is quite a good proposition and hassle free!
+
the apparently perceived brand value.

Basically one must decide based on one's running.

Irrespective of rising costs - there is currently still some difference between the 2, which may not last long.
But still - a Diesel car (e.g. my Manza) gives an actual average of 20+ kmpl on highways - even 22 sometimes (documented with pics in my thread)
so still translates cheaper.

But if your running is more intercity then the Honda City is excellent!

Which version Honda City? OTR price?

CONGRATULATIONS in advance !!!

[pat2kin]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Oh!

But if your running is more intercity then the Honda City is excellent!

Which version Honda City? OTR price?

CONGRATULATIONS in advance !!!

Sorry, Dr. Suraj. Realized just now that I had not responded to your question. Though it maybe a little OT, for the sake of closing the open question, following are the details of the car

Model - Honda City Corporate Edition
Color - Silver
OTR (Bangalore) - 8.5L

Thank you very much for the wishes