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Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen
(Post 3082164)
Somehow, I have a feeling that the 1.2 will be priced lower than the 1.6 engine ex-showroom. The 1.2 enjoys excise benifits where the 1.6 didnt. Pricing it any higher will not make the car attractive enough to generate volumes. Also hope that this is launched in all trims and not just the highline.
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True on the benefits. But the only issue is they would charge their price for the new technology. And if DSG gets added then even more on that. As I mentioned early it would be good to see this engine become the mainstream petrol engine for VW with mass production happening here. Else I dont see any other option for reduction in price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere
(Post 3082320)
...it would be good to see this engine become the mainstream petrol engine for VW with mass production happening here.
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This doesn't look practical to me.
The 1.2 TSI is producing power identical to existing 1.6 NA engine so theoretically they can replace the 1.6 with the 1.2 TSI but the problem is that most people in India still read power from displacement/CC. 1.6 ltr or 1600cc sounds better to most of them compared to 1.2 ltr or 1200cc.
Another issue is the TSI engines are more sophisticated and need more accurate workmanship while servicing or fixing them. And this situation may fix "unreliable" stamp on that engine because we will definitely see more failures cases of this engine compared to NA petrol engine, doesn't matter if that is because of improper usage/handling by the owner/driver or by the service stations.
An small example - the additional idling while turning off the engine is more important in case of turbo charged engines. And I doubt most of the petrol car users will easily adopt and follow that thumb-rule religiously. It will result into more number of conked off turbos. (experts please correct me if I am wrong about any technical explanation here)
Indian automobile market is still not used to of the turbo charged petrol engines. It will take some time and manufacturers are trying to introduce the turbo charged petrol engines in the market gradually which is right thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr
(Post 3082467)
This doesn't look practical to me.
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Thats what I meant. IF 1.2 TSI is to become mainstream and price sanitisation has to happen, development in this directions needs to go through.
On the hindsight it may not be that impractical. If Ford can plan an ecoboost production in India, why cant VW? Of course the numbers do need to add to make it a worthy proposition for VW.
DSG would surely make it costly. But TSI? I think there is still a slim hope!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere
(Post 3082475)
Thats what I meant. IF 1.2 TSI is to become mainstream and price sanitisation has to happen, development in this directions needs to go through.
On the hindsight it may not be that impractical. If Ford can plan an ecoboost production in India, why cant VW? Of course the numbers do need to add to make it a worthy proposition for VW.
DSG would surely make it costly. But TSI? I think there is still a slim hope!
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I think both of us talking about two different things here :D
I got your point, you are talking about mainly the cost proposition here but I am more worried about the 'complexity' of the engine compared to the simpler naturally aspired non-turbo engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr
(Post 3082740)
I think both of us talking about two different things here :D
I got your point, you are talking about mainly the cost proposition here but I am more worried about the 'complexity' of the engine compared to the simpler naturally aspired non-turbo engine.
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I do get your point. It is complicated no doubt. What I meant in this regard was that, there has to be a progress of technology as well. How long we continue on the same plateau? People need to embrace the newer technology and off course the new technology should yield return of investment to both the maker and the buyer. That means less failure rates, ease of adaptation, price effectiveness, easier maintenance etc.
Then only a newer technology would be successful and effective at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen
(Post 3082281)
The Punto Abarth would be far from juicy as Abarth is not bringing in any performance options + the car weighs like an elephant which kindof takes way a good FE proportion as well as performance.
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Sir, please read relevant threads before repeating the same old elephant FIAT comments. Or atleast mention the source of info when making such big statements.
1. Enrico Atanasio had made it clear that we wont be getting diluted cars in India but the real deal.
2. Car spotted testing was an 'esseesse' version with 180 bhp on tap! Power to weight of 156.8 bhp/ton. Even if it gets detuned to 160bhp, it will still have 135 bhp/ton. To put things in perspective - BMW 320D 127 bhp/ton, Laura vRS - 119.4 bhp/ton. VW Polo TSi/ Liva 1.5 are nowhere near in comparison.
3. Even if they drop that plans and simply plonk the current T-Jet into this car, it can beat the other hot hatches left, right and center in terms of performance. Read Linea T-Jet official review for more details.
4. Further discussions will take us way off topic in this thread. Feel free to drop by
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...inside-26.html and lets continue further discussions there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere
(Post 3082790)
I do get your point. It is complicated no doubt. What I meant in this regard was that, there has to be a progress of technology as well. How long we continue on the same plateau? People need to embrace the newer technology and off course the new technology should yield return of investment to both the maker and the buyer. That means less failure rates, ease of adaptation, price effectiveness, easier maintenance etc.
Then only a newer technology would be successful and effective at the same time.
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Good point. To add-on, the said 1.2 TSI is not really a new engine. It has been used in the VW group’s small car space for a while. Infact in many markets the base variant of the Jetta gets the same 1.2 TSI (105bhp). I guess we’ll pretty soon get accustomed to the idea of downsized petrol engines. We already have the 1.4 T-Jet from Fiat, 1.4 TSI from VW, and the trend should get more mass-market with the launch of Ecosport with the 1.0L Ecoboost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr
(Post 3082467)
This doesn't look practical to me.
The 1.2 TSI is producing power identical to existing 1.6 NA engine so theoretically they can replace the 1.6 with the 1.2 TSI but the problem is that most people in India still read power from displacement/CC. 1.6 ltr or 1600cc sounds better to most of them compared to 1.2 ltr or 1200cc.
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I would like to believe that the Indian car buyer will see it the other way. He gets power equal to a 1.6 ltr engine from a 1.2 ltr engine which means same fun with more efficiency. I don't think car buyers in India just look at engine displacement today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr
(Post 3082467)
Another issue is the TSI engines are more sophisticated and need more accurate workmanship while servicing or fixing them. And this situation may fix "unreliable" stamp on that engine because we will definitely see more failures cases of this engine compared to NA petrol engine, doesn't matter if that is because of improper usage/handling by the owner/driver or by the service stations.
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Sophistacation does not mean unreliability. When cars adopted mpfi technology from the erstwhile carburated versions did it make cars unreliable? Infact it is a selling point for manufacturers. Remember how Honda marketed and branded its Vtec technology or Toyota its VVTi technology.
As Vb-san mentions, VW's TSI engines have been around for some time around the world. Even in India, Skoda and VW have been selling cars with TSI engines since 2009. I can't remember reading a single report of engine related failures, not on our forum nor elsewhere on the net.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr
(Post 3082467)
An small example - the additional idling while turning off the engine is more important in case of turbo charged engines. And I doubt most of the petrol car users will easily adopt and follow that thumb-rule religiously.
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How many diesel car owners practice this? WHen people could adapt to turbo charged diesel cars from NA petrol cars, how hard will it be to adapt to turbo charged petrol cars?
Good news!
I only hope the 1.2 TSI is a replacement for the current 1.2 MPI and NOT the 1.6
While they're at it, VW should consider plonking the 1.4 TSI (currently available in the Jetta) into the Polo. That would be a fun car to drive :)
Hormazd latest tweet confirms polo GT 1.2 TSI with 7 speed DSG launch this month
Hormazd Sorabjee just tweeted this :
@hormazdsorabjee: Its official! VW announces launch of Polo GT with 1.2 TSI engine and 7-speed DSG gearbox. April launch. We broke the news last year!
So, seems Volkswagen is indeed launching the Polo TSI!
This is good news for us petrolheads! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by nipcarlover
(Post 3083616)
Hormazd Sorabjee just tweeted this :
@hormazdsorabjee: Its official! VW announces launch of Polo GT with 1.2 TSI engine and 7-speed DSG gearbox. April launch. We broke the news last year!
So, seems Volkswagen is indeed launching the Polo TSI!
This is good news for us petrolheads! :D
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That is some really exciting news. clap:
Now the thing is that its going to come with the 7 speed DSG? Hope the price doesn't skyrocket. Also what about the reliability of the notorious 7 speed DSG in the supposedly volume market Polo?
Awesome news! Is there a link to the official VW announcement or press release, since Hormazd said "VW announces"?
Now waiting for pricing information, and the official Team-BHP review! :D
So the 1.6TDI isn't far away then ? I hope VW launches it atleast by Q3 2013. Somehow with the DSG and the 1.2TSI I don't think it'll be priced around the same as the erstwhile Polo 1.6, this one will surely be much more expensive.
I hope the 1.2TSI is offered with a manual option as well,to keep the prices down and generate volumes,and for us enthusiasts. As for me,eagerly waiting for the 1.6TDI launch :)
As good as this sounds, I am very wary of the 7-speed DSG. VW still has not provided a solution yet, or has it? I would rather prefer a reliable manual over this.
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