[M35]

Originally Posted by rangarx

I think, with all due respect to Mahindras, Storme is a better vehicle than XUV. But again, nothing sells luike bling in India in SUV segment.

Could you please enlighten why you think storme a better vehicle than XUV.

If you are not in to any serious off road adventures, it is XUV a better buy any day. This contemporary product from M&M is more practical, equipped with more luxury no nonsense features and safety features and has come with no compromise on ride quality,handling and comfort.It is an overall better package. So XUV will continue to dominate in its segment.

Under 20L,again if you are looking for a 4x4 SUV there are also Scorpio VLX 4WD, Scorpio LX 4WD at different price brackets to choose from along with the overpriced[IMHO] Safari Storme VX 4x4.

[rangarx]

It is purely based on off road prowess my friend. No offence meant at all for the hot selling XUV.

[durgaprasan]

Hi,
Does the Bolero sell so much because of what it is? A 5+2 seater with creature comforts like AC, PS,PW, with an ever improving styling, for less than 8 lakhs on road? I see a lot of new Boleros in Kerala, almost 60% of them being purchased by families, the rest by government agencies, who have shifted to Boleros due to its ruggedness, people carrying capacity and low maintenence (especially in Panchayats in Kerala). There are lots of people i know who enjoy its low end torque in ghat roads of kerala. Its not meant to be a scorcher on road, but it goes anywhere without fuss. The Bolero pickups are not that common, Ashok Leyland Dost seems to have picked up a fair share of its market. But am not surprised private buyers looking for a cheap family vehicle have opted for Bolero, especially in Tier 2 cities.
Durga Prasan

[narayan]

Originally Posted by rangarx

It is purely based on off road prowess my friend. No offence meant at all for the hot selling XUV.

Am not sure why you ( and many others ) dismiss the XUV as bling etc. As for offroading "prowess" I have not come across any reliable comparo between the W8 AWD and the Storme 4X4. Purely based on a ladder frame construction and a LSD, the Storme has a edge. That apart I don't see anything significantly +ve about the Storme from the 4X4 perspective.

[Inquisitive]

Congrats GTO for the excellent review and that have happened without fail for so many times!!!
To my mind we have gone past the exponential growth phase of auto industry here in India with reasons being many and varied. Probably this slack in sales will take another 4-5 years to cure itself as the middle-class urban hatchback owners will move over to the next higher category by the time they dispose of their first and in some cases their second car. Secondly in terms of numbers alone people ready to afford their first car probably has come down from what it was say about 5 years back. For ones who already have one or more cars in their garage are now too well-educated to be lured by foreign brands and would prefer to wait and watch for better models in terms of spec rather than the manufacturer tag. In any case I would be surprised if the car sales % increase would ever match that of 2009-2010.

[anumod]

Thanks GTO for the wonderful report.

What is happening to Aria, after such a big campaign it could sell only 5 units. Looks like it is in the verge of death. Should we start wishing it a RIP

I really liked that car with the current price tag. It is really value for money. If the could have improved the plastic quality, then it could have been one of the best car in that price range

[vskesavan]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

The exceptions were the Suvega moped made in collaboration with Motobecane of France that was successful since the mid 1960's til the mid 1970's.
Hence, the Duster's success writes many things between the lines. If it continues to succeed, the presence of the French car industry will be felt in our market quite dominantly.

True. A sleek, little bigger than bicycle, Suvega Moped ruled the road in those days. Only then TVS-50 moped entered in to that segment and captured the turf all over India with a tag line of 'Our hamlet vehicle' (Namma ooru Vandi in Tamil). Infact, the entire community of milk vendors, changed to TVS-50, who were till then using bicycles.
It is quite surprise, when the booking is overwhelmed, why the sales of Duster came down from 5406-Oct-12 to 4485-Dec-12?

[JattaRR]

Thanks to GTO for the most awaited thread of the month. My take:

Chevrolet: The Beat feels claustrophobic due to dark interiors so they need to offer beige interiors atleast as an option to tempt buyers for a likable car which is otherwise a great value deal. Mediocre but practical Tavera's pricey higher variants don't give it much chance against the Ertiga . In the recent facelift Chevy missed an opportunity to correct Spark's quirky central instrument cluster design which doesn't appeal to all. Prefer the earlier cheerful beige interior than the current boring dull shade. Though not as VFM as Figo the Sail U-VA has honest pricing but atleast the steering could've been black. The new Cruze holds on thanks to its looks and the BHP bragging rights it offers. Don't know why should the Captiva sell less than Rexton.

Fiat : They really know how to not sell two capable/lovable cars. Though the Linea and Punta are a bit heavy for their diesel engines and need more power but still. Also the discounts in Dec 2012 were not as generous as in Dec 2011.

Ford: The Endeavour has outlived its cult, time for an all new. The Classic really deserves Fiesta's 88bhp diesel mill and at present its pricey top variant frankly forces the Fiesta pricing out of competition. Fiesta needs beige interior option and 100+ bhp diesel power. Don't know why Ford thinks delaying EcoSport is helping its case.

Honda : Probably taking inspiration from Ford they're taking their own sweet time for the Amaze and other diesel mills.

HM-Mitsubishi: If it wasn't for HM-Mitsubishi the Pajero Sport would've sold more had it come from some other carmaker.

Hyundai: Except Sonata and Sante Fe which are comprehensively beaten by Superb and Fortuner respectively there isn't much to complain about. All other cars are selling well enough thanks to the fluidic design approach despite being as much fun to drive as a boat.

Mahindra: Bolero is keeping rural and small town India busy because it has no competitor! The Verito is an honest car which deserves more sales. Mahindra can potentially sell as many Thars as Scorpios if they correct the rather inflated price which is almost 8 lacs minus any frills relegating Thar to being a lifestyle vehicle. Mahindra has done little to improve its design or comfort. Being rugged from outside doesn't mean it has to be spartan inside. Ertiga took away those Xylo customers.

Maruti: It's good A-Star is back to 4 digit numbers after long but the car deserves better. Cramped rear seat and quirky looks have damaged a fun hatch. The Ritz is priced well unlike the Swift and has better cabin but many Indians don't like its rear which prevents it from selling as much as it could. Only 300 odd units despite being a diesel Maruti is a shame for SX4 and it looks desperate for an update. The Ertiga offers everything that SX4 does n more at the same price so Maruti needs to price it between Dzire and Ertiga and not along with Ertiga. Surely the new Wagon-R will be back to setting old numbers.

Nissan: They priced the Evalia right but maybe the choice of that giddy color in ads was too optimistic. Also windows in the middle row that don't wind down don't help even if its boxy shape promotes the kind of practicality most of the market couldn't care less about. For Micra it's high time Nissan realizes that it needs ABS and passenger airbag in the diesel top model. Indian customer is getting smarter by the day to ignore this kind of shortchanging. Sad to see a capable SUV like X-trail getting wasted due to inflated price. It would do well under 20 lacs.

Renault: They can enjoy the Duster party atleast as long as Ford is sleeping over the now long impending EcoSport. Fluence numbers show all that's wrong with over-priced D-segment cars. It needs more diesel power to leave any mark in that class.

Skoda: Happy to see the Rapid numbers improving, hope it closes in on Verna as the segment matures and people realize that the Verna is indeed not as great to drive as it looks. The Fabia needs more diesel power to save otherwise a good car. The talented Yeti can't compete with Duster with that price and thanks to the well priced Rapid the class leading Laura is now looking over-priced to buyers.

Tata: With that record the Aria is dead. Tata killed it with that price perception no matter how big the discounts were later on. With these numbers one can see that Tata is struggling really bad, maybe its worst. Hope Karl Slym realizes that their current platforms are getting old with newer competition and the product line-up needs an overhaul. Tata started the year with 34k units and ended with just 14k units, looks like in-between somewhere the Indian buyer just woke up!

Toyota: Looks like the new Camry will get what it deserves with the arrogant price. Happy to see the Corolla going down, buyers have finally woken up to Toyota shortchanging them with that boring diesel mill which was a shame in that class. Hope it forces Toyota to give it a bigger diesel heart. Guess the Etios and Liva will soon get refreshed interiors to push sales.

Volkswagen: Passat numbers decent but not great because one would prefer a 320d for a few lacs more with back seat space not being much different. Like most D-segment cars the Jetta is priced high and it forces the capable Passat into the other big 3 Germans' territory holding back its true sales potential.

A not so good December makes for the discounts to continue which might help make it a good January.

[veyron_head]

Its so intriguing to see that the Bolero outsells the entry level Eon! Mahindra's single minded focus on the UV market (well, nearly single minded, but for a couple of other cars) should be the reason. They haven't had a flop in any of their UV products.

[sahakar]

Originally Posted by carboy

Who will rule the roads once safety becomes a concern for Indians?

Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram

I'd say we survived a crash. At a T-Junction near Kanchipuram highway, My Alto collided on a swift @ 100kmph which suddenly crossed the road without noticing us from right to left . Luckily no one was injured except few superficial scratches.

The point here is, Alto is not a safe car. Had that swift collided on my alto, I'd not be writing this post now.

Originally Posted by zenren

When you refer to Maruti, are you meaning any small car sold in India? If not, please throw some light on how the Alto is less safer than a Nano or Eon or another car in the same segment. Please don't compare the safety of Alto with a Corolla or a Civic since the target audience is different.

Good to see seriousness on safety on TEAM-BHP. Wish the same attitude increases with the aam junta.

USA with easily having at least 10 to 20 times the number of cars running on their roads at any given time compared with India, has comparatively much much lower accident rates and even lower mortality. We really need to stop comparing ourselves with USA. First lets get better than Sri Lanka.

I feel when the govt proscribes that airbags, ABS and a few other features which culminate into some kind of minimal crash test road worthiness certification for every car model there can be hope on safety. Of course you cannot do anything about dimwits but hopefully this would give a better chance to reduce deaths and injuries.

With this commonality across car companies all our low cost cars will definitely have to increase kit, tests and hence prices. Maruti with its awesome advantage will definitely feel the pressure. The benefitors will definitely be the other top 5 provided they still have seriousness in India - Toyota, GM, Ford, Nissan-Renault, VW.

I see all small cars as not being safer compared to their bigger compatriots. It definitely becomes safer as you move up the car categories. I only picked Maruti as they are 80% of the market. Frankly, small cars like Alto or Nano have no business on our highways even though our highways are more gullies than highways. And when you see them going over 120kmph you shudder god forbid something goes wrong, they are all gone. Small cars should be for day to day errands in cities, period. Only if a minimum crash worthiness is mandated and if a car exceeds that only those models should be allowed on faster roads.

Not happening in my life time for sure.

Cheers

[anurag.somani]

Originally Posted by sahakar

Good to see seriousness on safety on TEAM-BHP. Wish the same attitude increases with the aam junta.

USA with easily having at least 10 to 20 times the number of cars running on their roads at any given time compared with India, has comparatively much much lower accident rates and even lower mortality. We really need to stop comparing ourselves with USA. First lets get better than Sri Lanka.

I feel when the govt proscribes that airbags, ABS and a few other features which culminate into some kind of minimal crash test road worthiness certification for every car model there can be hope on safety. Of course you cannot do anything about dimwits but hopefully this would give a better chance to reduce deaths and injuries.

With this commonality across car companies all our low cost cars will definitely have to increase kit, tests and hence prices. Maruti with its awesome advantage will definitely feel the pressure. The benefitors will definitely be the other top 5 provided they still have seriousness in India - Toyota, GM, Ford, Nissan-Renault, VW.

I see all small cars as not being safer compared to their bigger compatriots. It definitely becomes safer as you move up the car categories. I only picked Maruti as they are 80% of the market. Frankly, small cars like Alto or Nano have no business on our highways even though our highways are more gullies than highways. And when you see them going over 120kmph you shudder god forbid something goes wrong, they are all gone. Small cars should be for day to day errands in cities, period. Only if a minimum crash worthiness is mandated and if a car exceeds that only those models should be allowed on faster roads.

Not happening in my life time for sure.

Cheers

Safety first is well-meant; but the problem with mandating ABS/airbags in entry level hatchbacks is that it will push out many prospective first-time buyers from the car market.

What would someone who cannot afford a car opt for? A two-wheeler; which is inherently more unsafe.

A fuel cut-off above certain speeds (like for nano at 105 kmph) would be more useful and practical.

Ofcourse; traffic-rules enforcement would go a long way too.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by anurag.somani

A fuel cut-off above certain speeds (like for nano at 105 kmph) would be more useful and practical.

Isn't there a high chance this will lead to an accident if the driver does go above 105 kmph?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by anurag.somani

Safety first is well-meant; but the problem with mandating ABS/airbags in entry level hatchbacks is that it will push out many prospective first-time buyers from the car market..

If Airbags are made compulsary, it will push up the cost for mfr by around 5000rs for the manufacturer. With everybody needing to put in airbags, manufacturers will try to increase prices only by 5000-6000. Right now, its the manufacturers whim

[anurag.somani]

Starting from 5-6 K? I thought airbags were much more expensive. Or manufacturers are ripping us off for top-end models?

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If Airbags are made compulsary, it will push up the cost for mfr by around 5000rs for the manufacturer. With everybody needing to put in airbags, manufacturers will try to increase prices only by 5000-6000. Right now, its the manufacturers whim

[k2max6]

The airbags indeed cost 5k approx to the manufacturers but the cost of the airbag controller is also needed to be taken into account. Another 25k approx.

The airbag cost for wagon R is approx INR 2500 a piece to suzuki. They are manufactured at a local facility setup around 3 years back.