[prince85]

Originally Posted by venkatrx

Then with out data why were you trying to prove that 'baleno spares are cheap'

I asked you to kindly go through ACI's latest edition which covers prices of a variety of spare parts of Baleno and others.

I did that and i went through the mag and its evident from ACI's reports that Baleno sports the cheapest basket of spare parts after comparing a host of spare parts with its competition like the NHC etc but then i guess that makes you laugh out loud, well..................what can i say then?

Thats the data i am talking about...Looks like you like to jump off the important words mentioned in posts that retaliate your logic, but then as if i am suprised

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by venkatrx

YOu are right, maruti uses the "JD power" data selectively to suit it well.

So, what is wrong in that ? All marketers do that. In comparos they would highlight the strong points of their product and leave out the weak points. Did MUL tell you or quote in their brochures that Baleno was ahead of the competition as per JD Power ?
If they did that, then it was wrong. Else, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Originally Posted by venkatrx

And this thread exactly points out the rating given to baleno by the same "JD power" which puts hondacity and accent above baleno.

So ? A report which is 2 years old, generated at a time when the C-segment had all of 3 cars - what is its relevance today ? Even the Baleno they used for their report has changed from BSII then to BSIII today - you bought (not sure anymore of that though) the latter and are talking about a report that has the former rated. How relevant is this ?

[venkatrx]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Did MUL tell you or quote in their brochures that Baleno was ahead of the competition as per JD Power ?
If they did that, then it was wrong.

The point is "JD power" says that "maruti company as a whole is rated #1" but "Baleno is rated #3 amongst NHC, accent, baleno".

So ? A report which is 2 years old, generated at a time when the C-segment had all of 3 cars - what is its relevance today ? Even the Baleno they used for their report has changed from BSII then to BSIII today - you bought (not sure anymore of that though) the latter and are talking about a report that has the former rated. How relevant is this ?

Yes this wont be relevant, you are right, baleno-bs-II is better than bs-III as instead of 91 bhp its got 94 bhp. so its rating would have gone down further.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by venkatrx

The point is "JD power" says that "maruti company as a whole is rated #1" but "Baleno is rated #3 amongst NHC, accent, baleno".

Yeah, I know that and have the brochures with me. So ? Did MUL say otherwise ? What's your point here ? Just because Baleno was rated 3rd, are you implying that MUL's overall rating can't be 1st ?
MUL does not sell only the Baleno, man. There are other cars too in that stable, many of which keep coming 1st in the ratings even 10+ years after their intro here and when compared to newer cars. What do you say to that ?
If you had a look at the "Entry midsize car segment" ratings in the report mentioned by you, the Esteem has only 129 problems compared to the Ikon's 140 and Corsa's 212. A 10+ year old car beating 2 newer entrants at the game. What does it tell you about MUL's rating, based on your own rationale ? And, BTW, just because Corsa is lagging so far behind, does it mean that it is a piece of junk ?

Originally Posted by venkatrx

Yes this wont be relevant, you are right, baleno-bs-II is better than bs-III as instead of 91 bhp its got 94 bhp. so its rating would have gone down further.

Are you sure you know what you are talking about ? The JD Power rating is about problems per hundred cars. And you are saying that since the bhp got reduced to 91 (which incidentally was to conform to BSIII, which is a good thing), the number of problems reported would be more. Man, it can't get any dumber than this. I don't think there are customers queing up at MASS saying, "Hey, you guys reduced the bhp of my car by 3hp and now my power window does not work any more. Add that to the problem list."

[prince85]

Vekat, i don't understand what you want to do??? Some time back you had a problem regarding spare-parts which for some reason you feel are higly priced by just comparing a few spares and thus you came to the conclusion that the Baleno spare parts are most expensive in the C segment. Then i tell you to have a look at ACI's latest edition and check the spare prices of baleno and competetion yourself and you don't even bother to respond

Then you have a problem of FE in your car which according to you is 8kmpl. You then go ahead and poison people's minds saying that the Baleno gives 8kmpl just because your car or your driving style has a problem.

Then you have a problem with the power ratings of the BS!!! baleno when compared to the BS!! Baleno..........Well, i kinda support you on that. I agree Maruti made a blunder there.....

And now you take 2 years old JD power surveys and continue to point fingers at a perfectly good car.

I feel sorry for you Venkat, but i have a suggestion for you,please part with the car if you really have one (which by now i really doubt) like SB said. By doing this i feel you will invite a lot of peace and prosperity in your life. Good Luck!

[RX135]

Prince85/SupremeBaleno, chill guys. Can't you take criticism even when there is some support for that? I do agree that venkatrx seems to have certain bias against Baleno due to his bad personal experience.

Technocrat, I do not agree that Baleno will have more problem than NHC since it is in market for long time. In fact, it should be the other way round. This is initial quality survey, which is done after purchasing the vehicle. In fact, older vehicles will almost always have lesser quality issues.

[prince85]

[quote=RX135]Prince85/SupremeBaleno, chill guys. Can't you take criticism even when there is some support for that? I do agree that venkatrx seems to have certain bias against Baleno due to his bad personal experience.




Critcisms can be taken without a problem only if they are valid na mere bhai.

Venkat claims that the Baleno gives an FE of 8kmpl just because he gets that much - Sorry i disagree, it gives me 12-13kmpl without any problems!

Venkat says Baleno spares are most expensive in its segment - I disagree again, check out the latest issue of ACI and it has a totally different story to say.

And now the great guy picks up 2 year old JD reports and the rest is as we all know whats happening in this thread

[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by RX135

Technocrat, I do not agree that Baleno will have more problem than NHC since it is in market for long time. In fact, it should be the other way round. This is initial quality survey, which is done after purchasing the vehicle. In fact, older vehicles will almost always have lesser quality issues.

Rx I am not saying that its bound to have problems since its old car, what am trying to say is that can you have an Old term reports for a 10 day old car, No, right ?

In the intial days of any car the problems faced are least its only after the first few years that some of the issues surface but since the City kept on introducing newer models it would be unfair to compare. Also in current day scenario Baleno is indeed an old model & quite outdated too, its only the Powerfull Engine & AC whihc is now available at a great price which are its key USPs. Remember it was launched in Astra's & OHC 1st gen years.

Also the report doesnt say Quality issues, it just says issues faced by customers whihc could be anything.

Also My point was Honda is known world wide for its quality of engineering you dont need to find or do a survey for that. So if at all comparison was needed it should have been done with the Accent which is same agewise.

Also MUL hasw range of cars out of whihc its no rocket sceince that baleno sales are close to bottom than on top, so comparing MUL's claim of No1 with just one product seems ridculous. We all know MUL's car are entry level cars & their bread & butter is through the 800 cc M800 & Alto. They are not a premium brand Auto company.

[RX135]

Techno, these are not reported over first 10-20 days, but it is done between 2-6 months of initial ownership. I agree that as car ages, number of problems will increase. But if there are problems reported in initial stage itself, there are good chances that there will even more problems as car ages. I, personally, am surprised that Baleno has reported high number of issues. I was expecting it to be low, since it is a Maruti product.

The survey result talks about which 9 areas are covered under IQS. To quote the report itself,
"The 2004 India Initial Quality Study is based on evaluations from 3,788 new-vehicle owners of 31 different models representing 12 nameplates. The study, now in its eighth year, measures vehicle quality in the first two to six months of ownership and quantifies problems experienced in nine IQS categories: ride/handling/braking; features/controls; seats; heating, ventilation and cooling (HVAC); sound system; exterior; interior; engine; and transmission."

How much one wants to believe in JD power report is again a personal choice.

[burjiis]

I am laughing my wits out by reading Prince's and Venkat's posts . All I can say is, I Hate Baleno (Venkat's) and I Love Baleno (mine)

Burjis

[RX135]

Originally Posted by prince85

Critcisms can be taken without a problem only if they are valid na mere bhai.

Venkat claims that the Baleno gives an FE of 8kmpl just because he gets that much - Sorry i disagree, it gives me 12-13kmpl without any problems! Venkat says Baleno spares are most expensive in its segment - I disagree again, check out the latest issue of ACI and it has a totally different story to say.

And now the great guy picks up 2 year old JD reports and the rest is as we all know whats happening in this thread

Prince, I don't think Baleno would give 9kmpl to everyone since most people seem to be reporting around 12kmpl. But, he has reasons to think so.
Any way, I feel that it is off topic in current thread, which talks about JD power rating and Baleno standing w.r.t JD power rating (for all its worth).

[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by RX135

Techno, these are not reported over first 10-20 days, but it is done between 2-6 months of initial ownership. I agree that as car ages, number of problems will increase. But if there are problems reported in initial stage itself, there are good chances that there will even more problems as car ages. I, personally, am surprised that Baleno has reported high number of issues. I was expecting it to be low, since it is a Maruti product.

The survey result talks about which 9 areas are covered under IQS. To quote the report itself,
"The 2004 India Initial Quality Study is based on evaluations from 3,788 new-vehicle owners of 31 different models representing 12 nameplates. The study, now in its eighth year, measures vehicle quality in the first two to six months of ownership and quantifies problems experienced in nine IQS categories: ride/handling/braking; features/controls; seats; heating, ventilation and cooling (HVAC); sound system; exterior; interior; engine; and transmission."

How much one wants to believe in JD power report is again a personal choice.

Hmm this does make sense & yes even I was surprised to see so many issues but then like I said a fair comparo would have been Accent vs Baleno.

But again whats the use of digging out a 2 year old report ?? Not that I expect to see a change in figures but the entire idea behind this thread

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by RX135

Prince85/SupremeBaleno, chill guys. Can't you take criticism even when there is some support for that?

Hey RX135, valid criticism is always taken. Bash the Baleno for its looks or for being in the market for a long time or drab interiors or lack of safety features and no one is going to argue. Bcos they are true. Even with this JD thing, if he had mentioned as "Baleno had most reported problems among the 3 C-seg cars in 2004", it would be true. But then, he had to take selective text from the report and make it appear as if the report indicates JD's poor FE rating for the Baleno. Let me explain.
If you noticed venkatrx's opening post on this thread, it goes like this :

Originally Posted by venkatrx

As per the report below about "initial vehicle quality"
http://www.jdpa.com/pdf/2004198.pdf
vehicle quality in india is on a decline largely due to "low FE". So this report confirms that indians are very concerned about FE. Now in the midsize segment the report says "problems per 100 cars" is as follows.
1. Honda city - 96
2. Accent - 167
3. Baleno - 169
So baleno has the highest problems reported.

Sort of trying to imply that the ratings are an indication on the FE of the cars. Ofcourse some of the problems are FE related, but if someone implies that all the problems are FE related, and the ratings reflect the FE of the cars, it would be untrue. This wrong correlation is what we find wrong. If you read the full report, it mentions "Excessive fuel consumption, a problem symptom in the engine category, continues to be the most frequently reported problem in the industry. Sixteen of the 20 models ranked in both 2003 and 2004 register increasing reports on excessive fuel consumption."
See, low FE is one of the problems reported and not the only one. Also, there is no indication in the report as to which of the cars fall in the 16 model group that have consistent FE problems. Misrepresenting facts is bound to rankle people, and I am no exception.

Originally Posted by RX135

I do agree that venkatrx seems to have certain bias against Baleno due to his bad personal experience.

What bad experience ? The major grievance he had was about low FE. @RX135, tbhp-ians including me suggested a lot of options for the same, none of which he has deemed fit to do. A person seriously worried about fuel bills burning a hole in his pocket would make life hell for the MASS till it is rectified, instead of wasting time lampooning MUL on an internet forum.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Hey RX135, valid criticism is always taken. Bash the Baleno for its looks or for being in the market for a long time or drab interiors or lack of safety features and no one is going to argue. Bcos they are true. Even with this JD thing, if he had mentioned as "Baleno had most reported problems among the 3 C-seg cars in 2004", it would be true. But then, he had to take selective text from the report and make it appear as if the report indicates JD's poor FE rating for the Baleno.

Point taken! I, too, initially felt that it is a FE related issue, which is clearly not the case. But, later on in the same post, he did elaborate on 10 different parameters and how Baleno fairs against its competitors then (2004).

@Techno, I guess, he dug 2 year old report up now, since he is pissed off with FE he is getting for his car.

[mclaren1885]

im not at all surprised to see venkat do this anymore .. Which ever thread mentions about a baleno we invariably have him complaining .. I said this before and im saying it again .. If u would like to get rid of ur car , let me know i shall buy it from u .. More importantly ur car certainly seems to have a problem w.r.t FE , inspite of we rendering help to help u sort it out i dont see u willing to meet up with any of us .. I can see that u would rather prefer wasting ur energy online cribbing about bad FE than take some effort and come to one of the weekend meets and get ur problem sorted out .. Now i too along with the others doubt ur tall claims ..

Sorry to go OT , but i guess prince and SB ought to stop arguing anymore on this point .. We are just wasting our time and energy time and time again and on various threads ..

PS : Mods , pls feel free to edit this post ..