[satyaanveshi]

Automotive costing, pricing and profitability are not straightforward because there are several levels of fixed costs. For example, there are plant and equipment costs in India that are shared across vehicles of all models made in India. But development costs for a particular model will be shared across global sales of that model. Then there will be development costs for platforms and major components like engines or gearboxes that may be shared across multiple models sold globally or in specific geographies (say India+SE Asia).

All said and done, costs and margins are hardly a given. Instead they are substantially an outcome of company strategy with multiple feedback loops. Hyundai has been able to capture a good chunk of not only the regular hatchback segment but also premium hatchbacks, C and D segment sedans, etc because it has invested in a large manufacturing base in India and built up supplier and dealership networks. It was part of a larger strategy of not only building up a formidable presence in the Indian market but also making India an export hub especially for hatchbacks. All these involve huge capital costs, but Hyundai took its chances and has reaped the benefits. The net effect is that its marginal costs are probably very low and that gives it huge pricing flexibility.

Honda on the other hand has always been cagey about investing in India. With limited production capacity and no exports, Honda's decisions on what to sell in India seem to be influenced more by "how best to utilize the plant and equipment we already have" rather than a blue sky approach of "how do we maximize our presence in India". This unimaginative approach is the real reason why Honda is at best an also-ran in the Indian market.

To be fair, Honda did show innovation at the product level when it brought in the Amaze, which seems tailor-made for India. However, when it comes to an overall India strategy, Honda appears to have an extremely risk-averse mindset that balks at large capital commitments. This is the real reason why the Vezel may not come to India and why Honda messed up the Jazz.

[mail4ajo]

The Vezel not making to India is bad news and a great personal disappointment. I was planning to upgrade to a compact SUV but definitely not the Ecosport type. If Honda can bring in something on the lines of a Duster with Jazz/City type interiors, we have a winner and my upgrade.

A Brio SUV will get us something like an Ecosport which is downgrade from big Hatch, but makes sense for Honda to drive volumes and milk the platform.

[amit]

The Indian auto scene below Rs.15 lakhs is extremely boring because buyer's are not willing to accept real car's and SUV's so we have psudeo sedan's like the Dzire & Amaze and psudeo SUV's like the Ecosport, Duster & Terrano selling like hot cakes. For all our cries for a TSi Polo, how many people are buying it compared to the bee line for the Amaze? For all our cries for the Ecoboost, how many people are buying it against the Ecosport diesel?

This Brio based SUV will be like the Ecosport - Hatchback on stilts.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by amit

The Indian auto scene below Rs.15 lakhs is extremely boring because buyer's are not willing to accept real car's and SUV's so we have psudeo sedan's like the Dzire & Amaze and psudeo SUV's like the Ecosport, Duster & Terrano selling like hot cakes. For all our cries for a TSi Polo, how many people are buying it compared to the bee line for the Amaze? For all our cries for the Ecoboost, how many people are buying it against the Ecosport diesel?

This Brio based SUV will be like the Ecosport - Hatchback on stilts.

I fully agree with your views. We are such boring people in terms of car buying trends. Its mainly to do with wishing more for less. If I get what the marketeers term an 'SUV' for hatchback money then excellent, its the world's best SUV, if I get a 'booted' sedan for 6 lacs, perfect, that is the 'sedan' to buy.
We can see this conservative/money minded view in terms of car colors too, boring/plain/easy to repair silvers/gray and whites rather than any striking colors. Likewise the mango people refuse to pay more for ABS/EBD/airbags, but hey will pay more happily for jingbang jaaz like neon lighting or color changing LED all around the car or garish red interior lighting etc etc.

As long as we are 'like this only' we get cars 'like this only'

[geotracks]

We've seen Honda really take the effort to increase its models (Brio, Amaze etc.) & also finally bring in the i-dtec engine to India.

Wonder why Toyota with it huge customer base in India is not making any effort to even talk about bringing in small SUVs like the Rush or RAV-4.

Usually, Honda & Toyota are pretty much on par most times, like for e.g. in the US:

Honda Passport compares to a Toyota 4 Runner
Honda CRV compares to a Toyota RAV 4
Honda Accord = Toyota Camry
Honda Civic = Toyota Corolla
Honda Odyssey compares to Toyota Sienna
etc.

[Superleggera]

Originally Posted by geotracks

We've seen Honda really take the effort to increase its models (Brio, Amaze etc.) & also finally bring in the i-dtec engine to India.

Wonder why Toyota with it huge customer base in India is not making any effort to even talk about bringing in small SUVs like the Rush or RAV-4.

Usually, Honda & Toyota are pretty much on par most times, like for e.g. in the US:

Honda Passport compares to a Toyota 4 Runner
Honda CRV compares to a Toyota RAV 4
Honda Accord = Toyota Camry
Honda Civic = Toyota Corolla
Honda Odyssey compares to Toyota Sienna
etc.

Honda Pilot = Toyota Highlander, Passport is no more sold in USA and when it was sold it had the same size of CRV.

4 Runner is a different breed altogether, a very capable offroader which is built based on Body on Frame structure. It is very expensive compared to other toyotas and I dont think Honda still as a vehicle in US portfolio to compete against 4 Runner.

What honda needs to bring in is a competitor for Innova. As they have a diesel engine now, they can do that straight away !

[volkman10]

Honda Brio based compact SUV could share engines with the Mobilio MPV.


Honda Brio platform based compact SUV speculative rendering

Japanese automaker Honda is likely to go ahead with the production of the Brio platform based compact SUV. The compact SUV could share engines with the Mobilio. Apart from the Indian car market, the Indonesian car market is tipped to play host to the Brio platform based compact SUV.

http://www.cartoq.com/honda-brio-bas...e-mobilio-mpv/

[k_ajay]

^^ Even for a speculative render, that is a very poor attempt, as someone was just placing a Brio on large wheels. Definitely not what will make to the production floor.

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I fully agree with your views. We are such boring people in terms of car buying trends. Its mainly to do with wishing more for less. If I get what the marketeers term an 'SUV' for hatchback money then excellent, its the world's best SUV, if I get a 'booted' sedan for 6 lacs, perfect, that is the 'sedan' to buy.
We can see this conservative/money minded view in terms of car colors too, boring/plain/easy to repair silvers/gray and whites rather than any striking colors. Likewise the mango people refuse to pay more for ABS/EBD/airbags, but hey will pay more happily for jingbang jaaz like neon lighting or color changing LED all around the car or garish red interior lighting etc etc.

As long as we are 'like this only' we get cars 'like this only'

To be honest, I agree with this too and it's too true. We can cry all we want but cheap is what most people want and cheap is what sells. Why blame Honda (or any other auto manufacturer)? They'll only go with what the market prefers.

[volkman10]

Honda Brio based SUV to come by 2015, and would carryover the same 1.5-litre i-VTEC and 1.5-litre i-DTEC engine, which currently powers the new City sedan and Mobilio MPV.



http://www.cardekho.com/india-car-ne...city-12043.htm

[aniketi]

It will be too much. So many cars on single platform will be bad strategy for Honda. Already Brio is a flop product (almost) in India, Amaze done decent numbers initially but on a slide now, Mobilio is still unknown. Then why one more car on same platform?? Doesn't make any sense to me. Better get some other car like Vezel. That would have made lot of sense IMHO. I guess Honda want to earn huge profits by launching number of cars on same platform. Sorry Honda, it doesn't work anymore in India. People are aware now. They know everything. Just look at others like Chevy Sail twins, people knew its a Chinese model. They failed miserably. Already have problems with Brio/Amaze, then why try one more?? Learn quickly or loose quickly.

[narayan]

Originally Posted by aniketi

It will be too much. So many cars on single platform will be bad strategy for Honda. Already Brio is a flop product (almost) in India, Amaze done decent numbers initially but on a slide now, Mobilio is still unknown. Then why one more car on same platform?? Doesn't make any sense to me. Better get some other car like Vezel. That would have made lot of sense IMHO. I guess Honda want to earn huge profits by launching number of cars on same platform. Sorry Honda, it doesn't work anymore in India. People are aware now. They know everything. Just look at others like Chevy Sail twins, people knew its a Chinese model. They failed miserably. Already have problems with Brio/Amaze, then why try one more?? Learn quickly or loose quickly.

Why would that be an issue ? Presume you would know how economies of scale work. When MUL can churn out so many products on the same platform why not Honda.

also pls define what you mean by "flop product" ?

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by narayan

Why would that be an issue ? Presume you would know how economies of scale work. When MUL can churn out so many products on the same platform why not Honda.

also pls define what you mean by "flop product" ?

Issue is it will be again similar product. Look at Brio, Amaze & coming Mobilio, all looks same. Do you really want one more car, that too SUV looking same? At least not for me. I am sure it will again have similar boring interiors as well. When you compare it with Maruti, its a different story. Maruti knows what customers like. They are king here. Just that Maruti do it, doesn't mean Honda should do it. Maruti is very successful in this. Just look at the numbers Swift / DZire duo doing for last 5 years. Compare same with Brio / Amaze. They are no where near also. Brio is a flop in IMHO. Compare its numbers with i10, Swift, Wagor R etc and you will know why i am saying its a flop ( almost ).

[RavenAvi]

Honda planning the world premiere of the all-new Vision XS-1 concept at the 2014 Auto Expo.

The carmaker says the Vision XS-1 is a concept of a new crossover model which features sporty styling and outstanding utility space employing Honda's packaging technologies.

Could this be the Brio-based SUV?


SOURCE - http://autocarpro.in/contents/techno...chnologyID=255

[srishiva]

I dont understand why platform sharing is an issue. It has nothing to do with how the end product looks. Globally most cars/SUVs/minivans and even trucks that Honda produces are based on just Civic and Accord.

If they end up looking the same, it just says how far a company wants to go in saving money over what a platform gives (like panels etc)

[RavenAvi]

Global debut of the Honda Vision XS-1, pics courtesy IAB.

SOURCE - http://indianautosblog.com/2014/02/h...n-xs-1-116196#