[jaaz]

[quote=sachinpk;3535214]


Fines are there pretty much in every country, even those which have traffic penalty points. Fines ensure immediate loss of some thing important - i.e money. But in many countries fines are levied by a court and paid at the courts. Only in a few countries like India, we have Traffic police men collecting spot fines.

Sorry, I was referring to our Country. Please add "India" in the end. Because Corruption is in built in our Society. Among the most Corrupt Countries in the World, Our Country comes in Top 50.

1. As you'd mentioned - Fines are collected by Traffic Police Men. So, more the Fine Amount, more chances of corruption.
2. In Other Countries, Police man's Salaries will be so high that the fine amounts are a pittance for them - leading to less corruption at the lower level.

What we need at this hour in INDIA is educating the masses about Traffic Rules and Motivating them to follow.

If we can remove Corruption at all Levels, Our Country can become a Super Power within the next decade. To achieve this, First Corruption should go at the highest level. Instead of targeting a Poor Police man, let us first target the Super Rich Politicians - so that, the results will be very fast. I mean first let us save Thousands of Crores, before saving Hundreds.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by richie4u

Although this might be a great initiative, is there a mechanism to ensure that corrupt officals who have no respect for their duty do not take undue advantage of the same?

What I understood from the report is that this biker was driving on the wrong side of the road. If this is true, then I think it is better for this 'citizen' to get beaten up by a cop than by being run over by a truck. Such 'citizens' do not have any regard for their own life and they pose grave danger to others too. I believe the drivers involved in fatal accident due to driving on the wrong side shall be charged with murder.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by richie4u

Although this might be a great initiative, is there a mechanism to ensure that corrupt officals who have no respect for their duty do not take undue advantage of the same?

Here is that latest example of the same:

Looking at this video has left me with mixed feelings. First of all, a citizen has to follow all lawful orders given by a police officer. That included showing a license. That is the crux of the problem in India. People do not respect the authority of the police and the police do not enforce it. How often I see a police jeep parked at an intersection and people are driving the wrong way or committing other offenses without any concern. Even in this case, if the motorcyclist had some fear of the police, he probably wouldn't have entered that road after he saw some policemen present.

In the US, it is the other extreme. One order to show license and if not obeyed, you will be thrown on the ground and handcuffed followed by arrest. If you don't get out of your car as orderd or resist, you will be charged with resisting arrest in addition to other charges. You can even be shot as the policeman might claim that you presented a "danger". Obviously we don't want such an extreme in India but we need a middle ground.

In this case, the police should have asked him to present his license and after repeated requests being ignored, they should have simply handcuffed him and taken him to jail. Then he can present his case in front of the judge. This is a failure of police procedures in India where most policemen do not carry handcuffs and do not have proper training in restraining such people without resorting to violence. In addition, they should be able to either have a vehicle ready or at least call one to take the detainee away. If that happens, you will see much more fear of the police and people would stop violating laws with impunity. It is good that arrests in India are rare but we need a balance as currently as we saw in this video, there isn't much a policeman can do if a person refuses to even show his license let alone cooperate in more important matters. What if the policeman suspected this person to be a terrorist or some other criminal? How can that be ascertained if the person refuses to show required documentation?

We need a system where the police work according to rules but are also respected by the populace. Simple comment of "do you know who I am or I will show you etc." should be dealt with by imposing additional charges leading to jail time without fail. Only then will be have people behaving in a civilised manner.

[lurker]

Maybe it's poor training, maybe it's something else. The cop or is it a traffic cop did not follow procedures for de-escalation of the matter. By his actions, he infact gave a moral high ground for the offender? to display his tantrums and play to the gallery.

It's sad, but both the police and public must learn to respect each other, and if that is not there then there should be a set protocol to follow, which is to backed up by proper force and adequate tools (If a state govt fails to provide these tools, then the police must refuse to actively police a ward). If any citizen loses his cool then after an appeal or two there should be restraint applied and he should be moved to a side. When politicians are corrupt and make a poor example, it is the law enforcement and public servants who have to bear the brunt of public ire. Since corruption is epidemic in some states, there should be clear protocol to follow which gives justice and at the same time doesn't violate any human rights and gives the offender a fair hearing without the police being seen to be high handed or corrupt.

Perception and image management is important for such a highly visible organization as the police force.

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by jaaz

1. As you'd mentioned - Fines are collected by Traffic Police Men. So, more the Fine Amount, more chances of corruption.

Please see the draft of the new Road Safety Bill. Many of the offences which have hefty penalties requires court intervention. Refer to schedule III of the Bill which lists out what are the offences which are compoundable (i.e police can collect fines on the spot) or has to be tried in a court. Off course chances are there where people would try to bribe and make the police not make a charge sheet. Better mechanisms needs to be put to completely stop that from happening.

Originally Posted by Lobogris

That is the crux of the problem in India. People do not respect the authority of the police and the police do not enforce it.

. The same people are also pretty much scared to goto a police station. Police Station for majority of Indians is one place to avoid. So they are afraid of the police and are afraid of the authority they have. The police some times behave in a high handed fashion because only then the other party would be willing to even listen to them. To many idiots a police man talking to them in a polite fashion is considered a weakness and ineffective. A tight slap , few punches and kicks the whole scenario changes. Understand that we as people are generally indisciplined.

In the US, it is the other extreme. One order to show license and if not obeyed, you will be thrown on the ground and handcuffed followed by arrest.

Scenarios are different. In US police agression is pretty much accepted. The overall population of the country is less compared to India. Outlook of the society is different. Plus they have a very active gun culture, which makes the police even more cautious. In US perhaps police men using massive force to take down a suspect would be readily accepted, in India it would be considered as "police brutality" with every one from Arundhati Roy to the neighbourhood social worker and intellectual turning against them. Old stories of Ahimsa, Gandhi-giri etc. would brought out and police men would be crucified.

Any way, I guess we are going off topic now. So I shall stop.

[mayankk]

Sachinpk, are you,by any chance, employed in any capacity with the police services? Or someone in your immediate circle?
I'm just asking, you have absolutely no obligation or anything of that sort to reply.

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Sachinpk, are you,by any chance, employed in any capacity with the police services? Or someone in your immediate circle?

Yes. A few folks. But I am not a serving officer.

[sohail99]

Originally Posted by RGK

1. Design and create a Indian drivers handbook (based on Road structure, traffic rules etc)
2. Redesign and develop roads based on driver's handbook
3. Update handbook regularly
4. All training institute (driving schools) should follow this handbook and conduct online exam.
5. Practical tests should be made very strict. (eg: To do a reverse parking on a slope between two cars)
6. Include First Aid practice in the tests.
7. Revalidate all present driving licenses!!!

The point in bold is absolutely necessary!!

Revalidation of all existing DLs will serve to remove all those people off the road with no or minimal knowledge of road discipline, traffic rules and the concept of right of way (which I never see being followed) and I seem to be the only one doing so, especially at roundabouts and zebra crossings without traffic lights.

This will definitely improve road safety a lot!!

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by sohail99

The point in bold is absolutely necessary!!

Revalidation of all existing DLs will serve to remove all those people off the road with no or minimal knowledge of road discipline, traffic rules and the concept of right of way (which I never see being followed) and I seem to be the only one doing so, especially at roundabouts and zebra crossings without traffic lights.

This will definitely improve road safety a lot!!

Yes and no.
As a start it would be good to make sure that future licenses are issued after proper training. It is easier said than done. Even if one month training is made mandatory, it would often mean that people pay the school to get a certificate. After this we can worry about revalidation. The problem here too is that every driver would be cautious when driving with an instructor but would later go back to his/ her old ways. Training is the key. Something like a week long class for a few hours each day just on road safety, laws etc but it is hard to ensure this until our society and systems progress further. I believe things will only improve when our country progresses further, when institutions have more resources and are more efficient. Today laws are more strict than 10 years and and in 2024, things would hopefully be even stricter. It is going to be a long road but I am glad that we are starting on it.

[blacksport]

It is not sufficient that new rules are created, but they have to be enforced well. More importantly, the rule should be enforceable. Most of the feel good laws that are being talked about here are not enforceable. Or, not enforceable within a reasonable cost and effort. It is easy to say that a law is implemented strictly. But many do not look at the fact that there is a cost attached to it, and more often it makes better sense not to bother.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by blacksport

It is not sufficient that new rules are created, but they have to be enforced well. More importantly, the rule should be enforceable. Most of the feel good laws that are being talked about here are not enforceable. Or, not enforceable within a reasonable cost and effort. It is easy to say that a law is implemented strictly. But many do not look at the fact that there is a cost attached to it, and more often it makes better sense not to bother.

It would be helpful if you elaborate what rules are not enforceable and what is reasonable cost and effort. Most of us are bothered about widespread traffic rule breaking fur to lack of any deterrent.

[Dry Ice]

Wrote to rtsbill2014-morth@nic.in (provided on the Ministry's website) to frame a law for prohibiting the use of any kind of bull bars (front or back) on cars. This is an absolute nuisance these days. Even in case of a mild, low speed impact, it can prove deadly for pedestrians, especially older folks.

Hope they take note and do something about it.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

I would differ here. The way the document was being demanded made the commuter some kind of criminal where the excessive force was being used. Also would city cops over rule the traffic cops jurisdiction? It was sheer display of power which is wrong. The commuter may be wrong but the method used to question is totally wrong. The traffic cops look like meek spectators in the entire episode.

You know what, when you catch a corrupt public servant in the crime, or he feels he is going to get caught or accused of a negligence in duty by someone lower down the chain. That is when they get all hot and bothered and frothing and fuming.

The cop's actions are also consistent with behaviour displayed then, and that's when they get all self-righteous pretend holier-than-thou and get aggressive. I have seen this behaviour also with doctors in private hospitals who become all hot if questioned on their ethics of keeping a patient in ICU for longer than required.

In any case, it seems to be classic behaviour of cover-up. And it suits the corrupt cop or the doctor or any service provider to turn the case into misbehaviour rather than their misdemeanors be exposed as such.

[trek]

Watched the Road Safety episode on Satyamev Jayate yesterday.

I am really grateful to Aamir & his team to highlight this issue and create awareness. It was heart wrenching to see the plight of the families who lost their loved ones in road fatalities.

I will urge fellow members to send in their suggestions for a better road safety law to the below address as listed on Mr. Nitin Gadkari's (Union Minister of Road Transport & Highways and Shipping) twitter page:

"Request everyone to send in your suggestions on the new Road Transport & Safety Bill 2014

Any suggestions or comments can be emailed on the following address:
rtsbill2014-morth@nic.in
For efficient email handling at this end please include the following in the Subject:
“Suggestions for the Road Transport and Safety Bill”

It was also a grave reminder for us auto enthusiasts to control our urges and drive on the defensive as a number of factors are not designed right and a simple drive can easily turn into a disaster.

[Aditya]

Those looking to buy a new car in the coming years could be required to submit a proof of parking. Without it, the authorities are not likely to register your vehicle.

Under the Road Transport & Safety Bill 2014, the Government of India is looking to make it mandatory to have a parking lot before a person buys a car.

Link to Team-BHP News Article