[PatienceWins]

A great thread.

My friend recently faced rattling noise from the dashboard of newly purchased honda city. He struggled a lot (multiple visits and escalations) to get it resolved. It is clearly evident from all the niggles reported and visible cost cutting that Honda is not what it used to be earlier. The only reason I am still attracted to Honda is because of the great engines.

[Sridhar K]

@CD
Excellent thread, well researched and much warranted. You nailed the key point in the opening set of sentences. Lot of people buy cars by just reading the tbhp reviews both official and the owner reviews. On the official threads, subsequent user experiences sometimes gets lost in multitude of post (unless there is a separate niggle thread). Even in user reviews, the initial posts generally say good things and subsequent issues are high lighted by the owners in post which again gets lost. That is where a follow up effort like yours is praiseworthy.

Cost cutting and cutting corners for Indian versions is getting too common these days and Honda was considered an exception. Honda had a brand value in India which was well earned and I had recommended Honda to many people for trouble/niggle free ownership. Even I was thinking that I should be looking at a Honda when I get to replace my swift in the future.

The attitude of Honda dealership in India does not help either. I walked away from Dio and Activai when choosing my scooter because of the attitude of the dealership.

A thread like this a great eye opener.

[torquecurve]

First up - Excellent thread and research mate. Rated 5 stars!
I am a Tata user who always smiles when I read 'Niggles as reported by existing users' as the common tag line in all Tata reviews. But when we read this, we expect it to have some niggles and lo behold there are none.
Same way - we take bullet proof reliability as a given for the Honda and then we are surprised when someone says 'Hell no!'.


All said, end of the day three things will rule
1 - Brand name and recall - Even today a lot of people ask for cadbury (not chocolate), maggi (instead of instant noodles) and so - on. When it comes to cars, Honda hai yaar acchi hi hogi (its a Honda, it will be good for sure), or Tata hai yaar problems degi mat le will be the refrain. Honda is milking this (as have other brands).
2 - Brand Value - Simple - people will buy an Amaze over a Zest/ Xcent for the 'Honda' badge. We tend to be 'brand blind'. Arre Japanese gaadi hai yaar mere paas. (I own a Japanese car) just the way my third cousins best friends husbands close friend in the Khalifornia or kenneda owns (please forgive the spellings, no offense meant).

3 - Mob syndrome - Maruti has actually summed this up pretty well in their Dzire advert, where a guy says 'itne log to galat nahi honge na' pointing to the number of Dzires on the road.

It is the customer who drives the market. Problem is we are still stuck in the mindset of the 90's where the companies decided what you could buy, when you could buy.

[al pacino]

@ crazy driver
Kindly accept my salute for the hard work you put in complying this report .
Such reports need to go viral on social media sites and must reach a wider audience and eventually on the desk of head honchos of Honda India.
This is shocking to see that in today's age with so much competition around honda is taking liberty to have such fatal errors in the assembly line .
Fantastic effort from you a big thanx you .

[sumeethaldankar]

I think its safe to conclude that the first year of production batch of any manafacturer usually have some issues which get fixed in later versions.It's like version 1.0 of software which always has some bugs.It's always better to wait for the updated/corrected one.

I have a Civic , is it niggle free ? No.Will i buy another Honda ? I am not sure.

[sumitgovil2311]

First of all, let me appreciate the effort put by Crazy Driver for such detailing and superhuman analysis. Hats off to you.

The facts and data presented here is based only on the issues reported so far on this forum. Actual picture is even more concerning. People choose Honda because of reliability, but that seems like a thing of past now.

But, to think of, even now, we can find many owners of previous generation Honda City who will still blindly trust this brand (I being one of them). Main reason being, it is tough to like any other car once you build your trust on Honda. This is something which Honda is playing with, and which has to be corrected with a sense of urgency.

[bluevolt]

I own a 3rd gen City and overall very happy about it.

Though my car had issues including multiple horn replacements under warranty(4 times in 4 years IIRC) and even AC condenser was replaced under warranty due to leakage.

But other than that from the point of driving and mechanicals and ride quality, I never had any issue with my car. I have no plans to upgrade to 4th Gen by trading my current one.

About 4th gen, I think Honda went itself in a hurry in other sense.

First they never anticipated the thirst of diesel powered cars in India which got even worse since steep petrol price rise started happening from 2009-2010.

Then they just wanted to face the competition by having a diesel variant ready asap and that's where they compromised on quality. Meeting sales demands, trying to have low waiting periods etc.

Anyways, some issues just don't make a car bad. We have Tatas still on road(no pun intended). But yes they need to fix things before they release next iteration of 4th gen which might be due later next year or after that such that these kinds of issues just don't permanently damage a Honda car's 'Reliability' factor badge.

[RavenAvi]

Fantastic initiative, my friend. Hats off to the efforts you have made to pry open the blind eyes of potential customers who simply walk into a Honda showroom, plonk their money on the table, and drive out of the showroom with their car without a second thought (or blink, or TD). But, a point has to be said in their favor - they are not at fault at all. The company has built such a STRONG reputation in our country that, even with a 5-car portfolio, they are at #3 in the monthly sales charts, while other car manufacturers with a much more diverse portfolio, are placed below Honda.

Shortly before the launch of the Amaze, the Triple Hs (Honda Head Honchos) had announced that they were going to take Honda "mainstream" in India.

And this is what "mainstream" Honda is at, today:
A 14L+ Mobilio with ~4L Brio-ish interiors is SELLING, just because of the badge,
The Amaze, despite having the most disappointing interiors in the entire C1 segment, is SELLING,
The City, despite so many complaints of niggles/manufacturing defects/problems, is SELLING.

I am one of those who upgraded from the 3rd-generation City to the 4th-generation City earlier this year. At that time, it seemed like a good trade. Even the ultra-noisy i-DTEC engine was a sort of compromise, thinking that it will be as fuss-free and reliable as the legendary i-VTEC, so it's noisy nature can be tolerated.

Today, 7 months later, the *ONLY* reason to stick with the City is the engine. Period.

Trust me when I say this - the 3rd-generation Honda City Corporate Edition was M-U-C-H better in terms of quality than this 4th-generation Honda City V MT (which I own right now).

In my 2 years' ownership of my Silver Pegasus, I didn't face even a puncture. The only problem I faced was the driver door window's squeaking, which was rectified by a simple spray along the window-glass channels (it was caused due to the severe dusty conditions in my city).

And, in the 7 months ownership of my Empress, the list of niggles/problems/OEM defects goes on and on. As listed by CrAzY dRiVeR in the opening post, these reported problems would be considered sacrilege by Honda fanboys. Unbelievable as they may sound even to the casual car enthusiasts, they are ultimately an unfortunate set of truths. "Mainstream" Honda has gone down in a BIG way. Even the legendary i-VTEC engine has cropped up quite a few problems for this 4th-generation City, which in itself is a big testament of the ultra-falling quality standards of Honda Cars India these days.

I hope anyone who is reading this thread realises enough to buy a car by:

- not going according to what their neighbors own,
- doing long, proper TDs of all the cars they shortlist,
- not judge a car by it's resale value, even before they have bought it,
and,
most of all,
- not be blind to the badge in front of a car ONLY.


BTW, you can add a few more niggles which I haven't reported yet:

- Back pain due to poor lumbar support,
- Dashboard squeaks,
- Squeaks from seats,
- Hard gear shifts,
- Paint quality,
and a new one which you might have noticed in my ownership thread,
- OEM alloys chipping off.


Do I regret selling off my 2 year old Pegasus for the Empress? Possibly.

The i-DTEC is the only reason I am still sticking to my Empress - if not for this engine, I would have gladly taken the depreciation hit and sold it off by now, most possibly for the Fiesta. The niggles are becoming quite an annoyance. In comparison, my Pegasus was such a wonderful jewel.

As for the future, I'll see through the Extended Warranty period, and sell it off by 4-5 years' time. Hopefully Empress should last through till then, without cropping up a bunch of more unsolved niggles.

[SLK]

Good thread!

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Is the City as good as the previous generation? Yes and No. It is good in terms of a few factors like space, diesel option, FE, etc. But a definite step down in terms of quality.

I owned a City ZX which I sold last year. The panel gaps and the likes i.e. visual things were all ok, but the basic quality of the car/ the mechanical was no different from any Marutis I've owned (barring the 800s of course).

To me quality is relative, Honda maybe very good, but it doesn't stand out at all. My Marutis do as well as my Honda! very few issues. In fact, Honda had more petty issues compared to Marutis. To name a few... (which never happened on any Maruti)
power window channel failures
door locks stuck
brake disc issues
engine bearing issues
ignition lock failure
wheel bearings

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Is Honda City a 'niggle-free' product anymore? No. As explained in detail above, owners have run into niggles and some serious ones at that, as would happen with every other product in the market. There was a time when the Honda was a safer option in the C segment, but not anymore.

It never was! it is a perception in India. Mechanically city is a very basic/ bare-bone product and it feels so while driving too!, it is very good quality but compared to what? HM and TATA maybe!

My Optra has done 37k kms, so far its been very good too!

[~~h]

Excellent thread and kudos to all the effort that has gone in with the research.

I am one of those people who booked the 2014 city (by paying 50k to a Trivandrum dealer)a month or two before the car was even revealed. On test drive, i did like the space but the lack of quality/ kit was evident ( used to own a CR-V) needless to say I cancelled the booking.

Had a tough time explaining friends on the reasons for cancellation.. For aam janta its still a Honda City and one has to be too daft to complain bout it.

[SnS_12]

Firsty, thank you Crazy Driver for your excellent write up on the alarming number of niggles faced by customers on the new city.

We were all set to book the new city, but the five month waiting period made us have a change of mind and we booked the Brio instead (as we wanted a immediate replacement to our agening Indica), which was delivered to us yesterday.

Now, we were planning to book the city this month despite the waiting period as we need a sedan car in the family, but now I am really in a dilemma.

Looks like Honda is trying to make up on the losses due to the non availability of a oil bunner by passing on inferior quality and illfited parts in the form of the New City.


Guess, we Indians have to compromise on every thing from bad roads to poor quality fuel and now on Premium Priced Cars...

[wilful]

I am going to state something here that might sound contentious. No offence to anyone but all of the above makes me wonder whether Honda is going the VW/Skoda way, in terms of taking the Indian customer for granted. I sure hope not but I fear greatly...

[shazikon]

With out proper safety standards and policy making by our government, every manufacturer would try to cut costs..they are not obliged to provide the same quality and safety standards that they provide in the same cars sold else where in the world.
It is we consumers who flock in big numbers and accept mediocrity from manufacturers and accept what ever is thrown at us. If we are aware of what the car manufacturers are selling to us, and shun unsafe, untested, badly built cars i am sure companies would be forced to improve their quality. Its already happening with Skoda, its a matter of time, Honda wakes up to it. This is where forums like this plays a very important role.

[stanjohn123]

Phew and I was thinking the rattling noise in my Verna ' s steering column was a big issue. It's nothing compared to what city owners are facing now.

Can't blame Honda really , a lot of factors play here. First the segment it is in is highly competitive. They have to cut corners to stand a chance among others price wise.

This the first year model of a new gen, it is a known fact that most first year models have a few niggles. It's better to buy from second year on to play safe.

[tejas08]

Crazy Driver Kudos to you for the efforts put in this thread.

Now for my 2 cents!

TVs, Washing Machines, Bikes (Kinetic Honda is a perfect example), Mobiles and now cars. Look at anything over the course of 15 years and tell me if there is luxury product whose quality has gone up.

I can see some guys already planning to respond back immediately to this post. But this is the reality. With more and more automation in production industries and less number of people how would you expect better quality.

Remember those good Ol'days of CRT TV sets. We have had some many of our relatives and friends use those TV sets for over couple of decades without any hassles. Due you really hope to do that with the latest LED HD TV.

All of the items I mentioned above have examples. Videocon's first Washing Machines used to be imported and assembled here. Nokia Phones considered to be the most sturdy and user-friendly are no more the same.

In my family, we had at least a couple of Kinetic Honda's purchased about 18-20 years back and they worked like charm for over 10 years.

Manufacturers today are looking at manufacturing goods considering that people will not be using them the way they used to a couple of decades back. They don't expect that a person will drive his car for over 5-6 years max.

So lets give them the features they want right now and make them happy. That is the attitude of the Manufacturers and the Buyers right now.