[fastraj]

Originally Posted by reppy

Would the Bridgestone Turanza AR 20 work instead of the Michelin P3ST? Size would be same - 195/60R15. Michelins don't have very good cut and chip resistance on Indian roads, plus I don't have a good experience with the XM2's on my i20: mileage/ride did not improve by much versus the stock acelere, and I actually got better mileage with Yoko S drives! Weird!

Hey Reppy, I felt the Bridgestones were too hard for me. Always loved the cushioning feel of michelins. Turanzas are good tyres , you could try them out. My main priority was to reduce the inherent ride harshness of the city, hence the choice was between Michelin primacy 3st and Yokohama avs db.

[tejas08]

Originally Posted by suhas_raj

Really ?? Don't you think that is probably the last thing you should be saying on this thread !!

This thread is about how Honda in its latest conquest has turned out to be quite the opposite of "hugely reliable"

I would still say that Honda is hugely Reliable over the German Cars. Have you heard of any sudden break-down of any Honda cars without any reasons.

With regards to the German Cars, we have had break-down stories and issues that bring the car to a complete halt without any reason right from Polo to the Audis.

Yes, Honda has a fair share of niggles this time around which have resulted due to low quality or less quality checks, but the likes of Polo have had issues like sudden loss of power and the engine going dead. If you go through the forums, you will find issues with Audi and BMWs which are bigger than the ones being reported for Honda.

Here are some threads with regards to the German Cars:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...airs-free.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...epair-car.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...e-failure.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-problems.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ty-issues.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ce-issues.html

These are all recent threads (Some being just over a year old). Its Audis, BMWs, VWs

It took me 5 mins to find these forums from Team-BHP. I did search for Honda Car Problems too. But apart from this thread really all the threads are at least 8-10 years old or the cars are that old.

Just to give you an example, the Drive belt grinding noise. I drove my City with that Grinding sound for over 2000 Kms. Except the irritation of the grinding noise (Which is because I know of it through the forums, a majority of the people won't even know), it actually did not affect me in any other way.

Got the Drive belt changed, 500+ Kms driven and, touch-wood, no grinding sound yet.

I know some of the members might think that I am siding Honda since I own one, but really the numbers and the gravity of the problems speak for itself.

[Dry Ice]

Came across this via FB! Remove Honda from the title and everyone would promptly guess this car to be a Maruti for all the faults being highlighted. Surely not the Honda that we had come to know of in the previous years. This cost cutting bug entered their mind and manifested itself first in the form of Amaze, Brio and has now crept upto City. Honda should realize 'Trust' is something very hard to get. People have/had trust in Honda products for being defect/niggle free - you break that trust and you are then just another brand. I really hope they are reading this thread and do something about it in the next batches.

PS: Awesome work CD!

[MaheshY1]

I second that.

I have a theory: MS and Honda are taking us for granted.

After enjoying the success of Amaze, they just relaxed.
As a result, those consistently focusing on user feedback and adapting with every new facelift are able to deliver improved products.

E.g.: Hyundai. The Elite and Grand are huge improvements in terms of build quality and comfort.
The Polo gave us a taste of European build starting under 5 L price bracket.
My friend's 1st gen Polo (D) has 70 K on the odo and almost no rattles. And bad roads can make my colleague's 15 K Swift play music with the rattling parts.

Too bad.

[adarsh76]

Really a great effort in collecting those details. Honda City except the first generation one was an overly hyped product. The way the FE figures were quoted too much at one time although not for real, the brand image (only in India) made itself a cult figure. I never considered Honda a brand image even now despite owning the 4th gen Honda City.

But, in this price range if not Honda City, which car??? A car with good engines, interior space which can seat 3 persons in the back (at least a child in the middle) and comparatively lower maintenance costs. Yes, we have the Ciaz now with some good interior space but the seats lose out. It just doesn't have the comfort. Like the City, it is difficult to find a correct seat position in the Ciaz. I feel due to this issue of seating position, I have back pain on longer drives in the City.

It is a fact that the latest City has its niggles, but unfortunately we do not have a better option which suits as a family sedan. For those who drive alone or with 2 people in the back, there are better options considering maintenance costs are not an issue.

[aditto]

Okay, so I am not sure if this issue has been covered, but this happened on the day my SV-CVT completed 4th month! The rear door's rubber lining came off, surprisingly!
I don't even know how that happened. I just saw it popped out while I was locking the car and about to walk away.

[i_see]

This door beading problem is not unique to 4th gen.
our 2010 city(3rd gen) also has the same problem in right rear door.

Another niggle we faced in the car was the pipe connecting the wind shield washer reservoir to the nozzle getting disconnected many times from the reservoir nozzle end. Had complained multiple times to A.S.S, they would reattach it and again the problem would recur after few days.
Finally one day I replaced the whole length of tubing with petrol pipe of hero honda bike(sold at local bike repair shop at 8 or 10 rupees/meter, i don't exactly remember the rate). I needed about 3 meters for the same . After that, its been about 2 years and no problem till date.
The A.S.S had advised the whole length of pipe to be replaced at ~ 400 rs + labor

P.S.on comparing both the pipes, the original pipe had a very rigid and thin wall (probably the reason why it was not able to securely fix it to the nozzle) the one i replaced it with was having a thicker wall and more soft & rubbery

Originally Posted by adarsh76

Really a great effort in collecting those details. Honda City except the first generation one was an overly hyped product. The way the FE figures were quoted too much at one time although not for real, the brand image (only in India) made itself a cult figure. I never considered Honda a brand image even now despite owning the 4th gen Honda City.

I beg to differ here, the previous gen honda citys were no invincible gods- yes, but they were the best we had on offer at that time. i dont think they were over hyped at all !
the fuel economy figures are actually very good for the city. the mileage for our City VMT 3rd gen and Swift Vdi 2008 were almost identical for my driving style,especially on out station drives(with ac on 100% of the time).
in pure city driving, probably swift was ~ 10% more fuel efficient with ac on 100% of the time

Originally Posted by adarsh76

But, in this price range if not Honda City, which car??? A car with good engines, interior space which can seat 3 persons in the back (at least a child in the middle) and comparatively lower maintenance costs. Yes, we have the Ciaz now with some good interior space but the seats lose out. It just doesn't have the comfort. Like the City, it is difficult to find a correct seat position in the Ciaz. I feel due to this issue of seating position, I have back pain on longer drives in the City.

It is a fact that the latest City has its niggles, but unfortunately we do not have a better option which suits as a family sedan. For those who drive alone or with 2 people in the back, there are better options considering maintenance costs are not an issue.

I totally agree with this part.That is why despite test driving all the other cars inn the price range, went ahead and booked another city VMT as a replacement for our Vdi

The only petrol car which is i felt was better than city is vento TSI. if VW had offered a longer warranty on DSG gear box, probably my decision would have been different

[amalji]

I just counted the number of users and the number of issues reported.
No: of users = 48
No: of issues = 100
That is close to 2 issues per person for a period of around 10 months.

While this is not great, it's not bad either ( even when we consider that it's Honda that we are talking about ). The benefit of doubt should be given to Honda considering that it's a new design, and there will surely be a teething period. As long as Honda takes ownership of these issues and come up with a permanent fix, it's not a big issue at all.

And Honda's strength has always been on its ultra refined petrol engine and no nonsense designs. And it still remains so. It's not the reliability factor of the car as a whole or cheap to maintain factor that sets Honda apart. Infact, Honda has always been a costly car to maintain ( among the Japanese brands )

[reppy]

Originally Posted by fastraj

Hey Reppy, I felt the Bridgestones were too hard for me. Always loved the cushioning feel of michelins. Turanzas are good tyres , you could try them out. My main priority was to reduce the inherent ride harshness of the city, hence the choice was between Michelin primacy 3st and Yokohama avs db.

Thanks! I just got the Turanzas (Ar 20) installed and you are right - I can feel more of the road and the road noiae is also more than the stock MRF zvtv. Switching over to primacy 3st right now!

[CapnCook]

Thanks CrAzY dRiVeR for what seems like the post of the year. You deserve a Pulitzer for your efforts :-)

I am the unlucky guy in your post whose license plate light cover fell on the very first day. Not a very auspicious start but my car is now almost 6 months old and has done over 8000 KMs. For me it seems that the car has now settled down or I have got used to it. Poorly designed Bluetooth mic in my SV i-Vtec doesn't bother me that mush now just like some occasional rattling in the dashboard. I also no longer think about the lackluster paint job in my car when i park it alongside a polo/vento. May be I am exhibiting symptoms of the Stockholm syndrome or it is just cognitive dissonance. :-)

But after having bashed Honda for all the mess that it has created, will i buy a city again ? Probably yes. Am I going to suggest it for others too? , may be not. The reason being that after having driven it for 8k + kms, I know it is still a Honda at it's core. It has the same i-Vtec engine with excellent handling and ride quality. I still believe that the car is going to start everytime I turn my ignition key or will never ditch me in the middle of a trip. But it's very difficult to explain to others especially when they see that the rear door rubber seal is coming off or there are too many scratches on my piano black dash.

I attribute the twitchy handling at high speeds to strong cross winds. Cross winds can bring down a jumbo jet and a car is definitely not immune to their power. More evidence comes from the fact that drivers have noticed this on places which are more susceptible to strong crosswinds like Mumbai Sea Link, wide open highways and in my case - the elevated Electronic City highway in Bangalore. I think cars (at least in this segment) are not designed aerodynamically to handle crosswinds and with increase in speed the effects are even more pronounced. Cars with softer suspension should have lesser perceived crosswind sensitivity. But I will leave the judgement to the experts.

[aniketi]

Unfortunately, Honda is not Honda anymore. That is really sad to see. Previous generations Honda cars are much better than the recent ones. Even new Honda City don't have a quality which is expected from big H. Interiors of new Honda City has good design but not the quality for sure. I don't think it will age well over years. With others like Maruti, Hyundai, Mahindra, Tata are improving with every car, Honda is surprisingly going down. I am not even talking about Brio, Amaze etc which has even more pathetic, cheap interiors. Just sit in entry level Amaze, it feels so cheap. Have they closed their QA department in India?

[rjalihal]

I own a 2011 City V-AT Exclusive and have had no issues with it. Have clocked 40k and is still going strong. Now I am thinking of upsizing my tires but still have not gotten around it. Its shocking to read that their quality is deteriorating. Still, they remain solid cars and the reliability is one main criteria I chose a Honda over Hyundai/VW/ others. One annoying thing I must mention though: the chrome strip on the rear left door always becomes lose when I wash the car. It's happened 3 times so far! Not a major concern, but just annoying. Apart from that, she is a tip top jack rabbit!

Cheers!
-Rohan

[GTO]

There's no doubt that Honda has undergone a change in philosophy. It's adopted the 'cost-cutting' route and has started making compromises. We first saw this with the Brio, then the Amaze and Mobilio. From all three, the Mobilio feels especially cheap for its price. I'd never have thought they'd cut corners with their flagship & Indian stalwart - the City - but the ownership reports prove otherwise.

It's shocking really. As someone earlier mentioned, the Civic & Jazz were the last top quality Hondas in India (am not including CR-V due to high import content). Take a peek inside my 7.5 year old Civic's interiors and you'd never guess the car's age. There's nary a rattle or squeak inside, the interior quality is that good.

Toyota did the same with the Liva & Etios and they bombed. The City has the market's blind faith in it, Honda should preserve its reputation carefully.

On a related note, must appreciate Hyundai. Even their 5 lakh rupee Grand i10 seems to be perfectly put together. This is one company that doesn't miss the woods for the trees.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by GTO

It's shocking really. As someone earlier mentioned, the Civic & Jazz were the last top quality Hondas in India (am not including CR-V due to high import content). Take a peek inside my 7.5 year old Civic's interiors and you'd never guess the car's age. There's nary a rattle or squeak inside, the interior quality is that good.

On that note I am worried about the upcoming Jazz. If the so-called high local-content gets translated into dip in quality, it will mark a complete transformation for Honda as a brand.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by amalji

I just counted the number of users and the number of issues reported.
No: of users = 48
No: of issues = 100
That is close to 2 issues per person for a period of around 10 months.

While this is not great, it's not bad either

There was a member RavenAvi who posted earlier. He has his seperate ownership report as well on the 4th generation City which is very well documented. Can you please go through his post and explain it to him why its not bad?

Don't we deserve better quality?

Agree with you that the petrol motor has always been their strength. Can you believe the 11 people who complained of alternator belt grinding noise and clutch replacements where iVTEC owners? The iDTEC has been good till now except for the noise levels.

Originally Posted by CapnCook

I attribute the twitchy handling at high speeds to strong cross winds.

Cross winds usually affect cars with slab sided profile. The WagonR for example. I'm surprised the City is affected.

Could this (below) be the reason?



This was the only major change I could spot in the aerodynamics compared to the previous generation. Cross winds don't flow from the sides anymore - they are obstructed by the slab sides.