New Tata Safari(x2) 3.0, V6, 200+ Bhp

binoyb22 · 8th February 2008, 17:54

Guys,

Any idea what would be the specification of tata safari X2?
When will this get launched?

adityamunshi · 10th February 2008, 19:39

Take a look at this thread :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-but-true.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by binoyb22

Guys,

Any idea what would be the specification of tata safari X2?
When will this get launched?

PAVAN KADAM · 4th June 2008, 16:17

If its a ladder on Chasis,

We are driving in a coffin.

I think TATA's have taken care of this in design

mpescatori · 8th June 2008, 19:37

I've read this with great interest...
3.0 V6 Safari with 200bhp
If it's a diesel, both Mercedes Benz and Chrysler make similar TDi engines, with torque figures in the 510Nm range... VERY impressive...
Match a 5-speed auto'box, and who needs low gears on the Safari ?

On the other hand, I do not see the point of a 200bhp petrol engine on the Safari, it would ape BMW or MercedesBenz 4x4s.

Keep in mind that Italian enthusiasts have already eked out a good 135+ bhp from the low-revving 3.0 DICOR - I have one such Safari.
The 2.2 DICOR only produces 140bhp, but the same engine as fitted to Peugeot and Citroen crossovers (no low gears) is tuned to 165bhp. And 4-door saloons go in excess of 175bhp.

So, a V6 3.0 TDi Euro4 specs is easily capable of 200bhp.
Now, if Ratan Tata and his Engineers were really looking at where the money is, they'd be already working on a Euro5 2.5 / 2.8 TDi... They'd beat the competition hands down !!!

aerohit · 8th June 2008, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I have no doubt of Tata being able to match that output from a 3.0 liter. And if they can extract 90bhp from a 1.4 diesel, they very well can match 200bhp from a 3.0 diesel.

Kudos to Tata for trying...even if it eventually does not see the light of day.

DUH

Everyone forgot, they can now also borrow technology from JLR !!

cooldude1988765 · 8th June 2008, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohit

DUH

Everyone forgot, they can now also borrow technology from JLR !!

I thought Ford supplies them with their engines. I doubt ford will let Tata to use their engines.

bigman · 8th June 2008, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohit

DUH

Everyone forgot, they can now also borrow technology from JLR !!

Ford were clever and still have rights over much of the acclaimed technology and it is only licensed for JLR's use.

So you are not going to see any engines migrating from JLR to TATA.

Zappo · 8th June 2008, 23:20

I do not think they have to do that in real sense. If we look at the 2.2 lt engine it gives us a good idea. I am sure Tata engineers did not reinvent the wheel. They would have studied the designs of the many similar engines with almost same output that are available across the world. They are ingenious enough to assimilate that knowledge and then use that as a springboard to redesign it sufficiently to circumnavigate around the patent laws etc.

The same can happen with JLR and its engines. Once the Tata engineers get to study them upclose and get the drawings etc of the important assemblies of those Ford engines (they will through JLR) they will assimilate that knowledge and then change it sufficiently to come up with their own watered down versions of such technologies.

Chances of that happening is pretty bright IMO.

Mayavi · 9th June 2008, 00:25

Don't forget that while ford supplies the newer engines that it developed, TATA owns the rights and unrestricted access to all Jaguar engines designed before Ford's acquisition.

bigman · 9th June 2008, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayavi

Don't forget that while ford supplies the newer engines that it developed, TATA owns the rights and unrestricted access to all Jaguar engines designed before Ford's acquisition.

So TATA own the rights to big thirsty outdated Jag power pots. Hardly anything useful in that.

SirAlec · 9th June 2008, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zappo

I do not think they have to do that in real sense. If we look at the 2.2 lt engine it gives us a good idea. I am sure Tata engineers did not reinvent the wheel. They would have studied the designs of the many similar engines with almost same output that are available across the world. They are ingenious enough to assimilate that knowledge and then use that as a springboard to redesign it sufficiently to circumnavigate around the patent laws etc.

The same can happen with JLR and its engines. Once the Tata engineers get to study them upclose and get the drawings etc of the important assemblies of those Ford engines (they will through JLR) they will assimilate that knowledge and then change it sufficiently to come up with their own watered down versions of such technologies.

Chances of that happening is pretty bright IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayavi

Don't forget that while ford supplies the newer engines that it developed, TATA owns the rights and unrestricted access to all Jaguar engines designed before Ford's acquisition.

Guess what! sooner or later they will do that.
Remember early 60s when Merc Benz had tied up with tata to built trucks, namely 312 (4x2 and 4x4). Tata copied their highly successfull L6 motor. and created there own 1210D and 1210, se. Merc were so furious that they voided their contract but in the end TATA was hugely sucessfull in selling their 1210D, which you can still see running in many part of the country.

raj_5004 · 9th June 2008, 09:51

WOW!!! a 200 bhp safari sound amazing! but safaris are also known for their wavy handling with 140 bhp? then how will it handle the extra 60+ bhp? hope tata makes amends for it.
also, the price is gonna be sky high for such an engine, in the range of 14-15 lakhs. in this price segment, customers dont want power alone, they need image, build and interior quality and relibility. hope TATA concentrates on that too. look at the older grand vitara V6, a perfect example.

jkdas · 9th June 2008, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpescatori

Keep in mind that Italian enthusiasts have already eked out a good 135+ bhp from the low-revving 3.0 DICOR - I have one such Safari.

The 2.2 DICOR only produces 140bhp, but the same engine as fitted to Peugeot and Citroen crossovers (no low gears) is tuned to 165bhp. And 4-door saloons go in excess of 175bhp.

Steer's 3L too was 138bhp

Which Peugeot/Citroen ?

Steeroid · 9th June 2008, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigman

So TATA own the rights to big thirsty outdated Jag power pots. Hardly anything useful in that.

Big, not as thirsty as American V8s, and incredibly smooooooth.

Pretty usable, I would think. At least from the point of view of a company that isnt exactly known for its Petrol engines.

Jr Godzilla · 9th June 2008, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Big, not as thirsty as American V8s, and incredibly smooooooth.

Pretty usable, I would think. At least from the point of view of a company that isnt exactly known for its Petrol engines.

add to it pretty unreliable too.

8th February 2008, 17:54	#61
binoyb22 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: cochin Posts: 168 Thanked: 2 Times	Guys, Any idea what would be the specification of tata safari X2? When will this get launched?
	() Thanks

4th June 2008, 16:17	#63
PAVAN KADAM BANNED Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NAMMA BENGALURU Posts: 5,602 Thanked: 2,549 Times	If its a ladder on Chasis, We are driving in a coffin. I think TATA's have taken care of this in design
	() Thanks

8th June 2008, 19:37	#64
mpescatori BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 39 Thanked: 72 Times	I've read this with great interest... *3.0 V6 Safari with 200bhp* If it's a diesel, both Mercedes Benz and Chrysler make similar TDi engines, with torque figures in the 510Nm range... VERY impressive... Match a 5-speed auto'box, and who needs low gears on the Safari ? On the other hand, I do not see the point of a 200bhp petrol engine on the Safari, it would ape BMW or MercedesBenz 4x4s. Keep in mind that Italian enthusiasts have already eked out a good 135+ bhp from the low-revving 3.0 DICOR - I have one such Safari. The 2.2 DICOR only produces 140bhp, but the same engine as fitted to Peugeot and Citroen crossovers (no low gears) is tuned to 165bhp. And 4-door saloons go in excess of 175bhp. So, a V6 3.0 TDi Euro4 specs is easily capable of 200bhp. Now, if Ratan Tata and his Engineers were really looking at where the money is, they'd be already working on a *Euro5* 2.5 / 2.8 TDi... They'd beat the competition hands down !!!
	() Thanks

8th June 2008, 23:20	#68
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,922 Thanked: 2,699 Times	I do not think they have to do that in real sense. If we look at the 2.2 lt engine it gives us a good idea. I am sure Tata engineers did not reinvent the wheel. They would have studied the designs of the many similar engines with almost same output that are available across the world. They are ingenious enough to assimilate that knowledge and then use that as a springboard to redesign it sufficiently to circumnavigate around the patent laws etc. The same can happen with JLR and its engines. Once the Tata engineers get to study them upclose and get the drawings etc of the important assemblies of those Ford engines (they will through JLR) they will assimilate that knowledge and then change it sufficiently to come up with their own watered down versions of such technologies. Chances of that happening is pretty bright IMO. Last edited by Zappo : 8th June 2008 at 23:21.
	() Thanks

9th June 2008, 00:25	#69
Mayavi BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 682 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	Don't forget that while ford supplies the newer engines that it developed, TATA owns the rights and unrestricted access to all Jaguar engines designed before Ford's acquisition. Last edited by Mayavi : 9th June 2008 at 00:28.
	() Thanks

9th June 2008, 09:51	#72
raj_5004 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dubai/Mumbai Posts: 5,238 Thanked: 3,139 Times	WOW!!! a 200 bhp safari sound amazing! but safaris are also known for their wavy handling with 140 bhp? then how will it handle the extra 60+ bhp? hope tata makes amends for it. also, the price is gonna be sky high for such an engine, in the range of 14-15 lakhs. in this price segment, customers dont want power alone, they need image, build and interior quality and relibility. hope TATA concentrates on that too. look at the older grand vitara V6, a perfect example.
	() Thanks