[abhi29]

Originally Posted by ramassrs

Also, with regard to the American MNCs (Ford, GM), have they invested sufficiently in product engineering for the Indian market? I don't mean "engineering" in the technical sense only, but the entire gamut of what goes into a product that makes the Indian customer want their cars.

I don't think GM puts any thought whatsoever for tailoring/ engineering things for Indian market. They are constantly loosing the American-ness and their products are becoming more and more Chinese.

As far as Ford is concerned, i just don't know what the management is smoking. They have some good products in hand, but they are best at messing it up with some 'strategy' or the other. Be it marketing + pricing with the Fiesta, timeliness with the new Figo or the new Endeavour to name a few.

[ravradha]

I feel Maruti is cruising on the success of Swift, so much so that they are over looking the fact that Ritz by occupying the price and perception point, is not letting another Maruti to become a "grand i10". High time Ritz has it back straightened for good!

[rsm97]

Originally Posted by octane_100

I share the same surprise as few others here to the Zest numbers. However, I think it's early to call it a dud. One has to look at the context in which Tata has brought this product in to the market. The confidence in the brand was at an all time low and they just couldn't sell anything! I think Zest should pick up and stabilize around 3.5-4k units once people start hearing good things about it.

I second it. Tata has sufficient brand loyalty to pull a recovery for Zest. The segment where Zest is placed is price sensitive and a VFM product would be accepted sooner than later.

[Nitthari]

I am not sure if Mobilio can be called a failure as yet. I think we need to look at its number from a different perspective. With all the production constraints managing close 3K is not bad at all IMHO.

Now the Mobilio is up against the Ertiga which is doing double the sales and Innova which is doing about 5K. Comparing apple to apple Dzire (although in a different segment) does about 19k per month while Amaze averages about 6K, which is not even 1/3rd, but still Amaze is considered a run away success for Honda. (and with all its weaknesses is holding well against the Xcent and Zest) But Mobilio does half of Ertiga's sales M-o-M on an average. Agreed Mobilio is pricey and the interiors drab, but I dont think its fair to compare it with Ertiga which has a poorer engine and Innova which has a much bigger engine. Maybe Honda deliberately priced it higher to slot it in a different space altogether to have a balanced sales numbers so that one cars sales doesnt affect the production of the other by too much.

If the M-o-M sales sticks to the 2.5 to 3K sales I dont think Honda is going to complain at all. Maybe thats what they budgetted and that was the strategy. The next couple of months could confirm or debunk my theory.

[Aficionados]

Originally Posted by Nitthari

I am not sure if Mobilio can be called a failure as yet. I think we need to look at its number from a different perspective. With all the production constraints managing close 3K is not bad at all IMHO.

Now the Mobilio is up against the Ertiga which is doing double the sales and Innova which is doing about 5K. Comparing apple to apple Dzire (although in a different segment) does about 19k per month while Amaze averages about 6K, which is not even 1/3rd, but still Amaze is considered a run away success for Honda. (and with all its weaknesses is holding well against the Xcent and Zest) But Mobilio does half of Ertiga's sales M-o-M on an average. Agreed Mobilio is pricey and the interiors drab, but I dont think its fair to compare it with Ertiga which has a poorer engine and Innova which has a much bigger engine. Maybe Honda deliberately priced it higher to slot it in a different space altogether to have a balanced sales numbers so that one cars sales doesnt affect the production of the other by too much.

If the M-o-M sales sticks to the 2.5 to 3K sales I dont think Honda is going to complain at all. Maybe thats what they budgetted and that was the strategy. The next couple of months could confirm or debunk my theory.

Agree that Mobilio cannot be termed as failure yet, but it will soon be called so, once we have the facelift of Ertiga in market.

Not sure if you have driven Ertiga to call its engine as poorer, please correct me if so. Power to weight ratio of Ertiga is ~73 , and that of Innova is ~61! I know its not the only factor, but that shows at least Ertiga cannot be called under-powered

BTW, I'm not saying Ertiga is the best buy, but definitely a better buy than Mobilio on any day.

[abkett]

Elite I 20 makes it into top 5 again . If im not wrong from launch period they have sold around 70 to 75k cars. Just 25 k short of 1 lakh magical figure. I hope they achieve it prior to launch of honda jazz.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Nitthari

But Mobilio does half of Ertiga's sales M-o-M on an average. Agreed Mobilio is pricey and the interiors drab, but I dont think its fair to compare it with Ertiga which has a poorer engine and Innova which has a much bigger engine.

Can you please define 'poor engine' a bit more clearly?

The Mobilio was priced higher than the Ertiga but lower than Innova. Honda was competing with the Innova more than the Ertiga and never wanted to see Ertiga s is rival be it in space, overall packaging and pricing.

This thought of pricing it higher (almost 1 lakh costlier in certain cities) isn't well justified when both cars are compared side-by-side.

Originally Posted by Nitthari

Maybe Honda deliberately priced it higher to slot it in a different space altogether to have a balanced sales numbers so that one cars sales doesnt affect the production of the other by too much.

IMO, any manufacturer would want high sales for its cars and won't price it high to counteract their lower production capacities.

They miscalculated the demand and got over-confident with the Mobilio launch + hype. They priced it high to milk the customer.

[rsm97]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

This thought of pricing it higher (almost 1 lakh costlier in certain cities) isn't well justified when both cars are compared side-by-side.

IMO, Honda (and Toyota) always price their product somewhat higher than equivalent competition. It did not work well for them in Jazz, but so what? Same thought process seems to have continued in Mobilio too.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by Khushrav

Just thinking aloud - this report should also include manufacturers like Benz, BMW, Audi and JLR.

The Premium makes do not release their wholesales

[Nitthari]

Originally Posted by Aficionados

Not sure if you have driven Ertiga to call its engine as poorer, please correct me if so. Power to weight ratio of Ertiga is ~73 , and that of Innova is ~61! I know its not the only factor, but that shows at least Ertiga cannot be called under-powered

BTW, I'm not saying Ertiga is the best buy, but definitely a better buy than Mobilio on any day.

As long as the Mobilio does about an average of 2.5 to 3k cars a month, I dont think it can be termed a failure by any yardstick.

Also I wanted to say the "smaller" engine for the Ertiga rather than "poorer" engine. Ertiga's engine is certainly not Poor by any yardstick. Sorry for the wrong choice of word used.

Btw I did TD the Ertiga with a full load and the Innova with a full load (with people and both diesels). I found the Innova's engine perform far better than the Ertiga. Please note that I am going by the on road performance and not by on paper technicalities.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Can you please define 'poor engine' a bit more clearly?
========
They miscalculated the demand and got over-confident with the Mobilio launch + hype. They priced it high to milk the customer.

Possible. With a higher price tag (which is not justified) if Honda still manages to sell 2.5 - 3k Mobilios M-o-M then Honda will be glad. On the other hand if they are not able to sustain these numbers and are forced to take a re-look at the strategy (pricing, features etc) then the Customers and I will be very happy

[man_and_machine]

Was speaking to a Honda sales guy and seems like there is a lot of cross shopping between the City and the Mobilio. Even Honda seems to be aiding these. Well, if it works to their advantage that they retain a sedan customer by selling them a MUV (lets say the Mobilio is one, as close) why not? The selling point for many customers it seems is to tell a potential Mobilio customer "Sir, this has the same engine as the City, so it will be powerful and refined". For a potential City customer "Sir, this is the same fuel efficient engine of the Mobilio, so great on the economy". Its seems to work. Strange are our ways and strange are our sales! Well, in the end Honda will be happy to sell them either one of the cars.

[Rohitj92]

Originally Posted by Nitthari

Btw I did TD the Ertiga with a full load and the Innova with a full load (with people and both diesels). I found the Innova's engine perform far better than the Ertiga. Please note that I am going by the on road performance and not by on paper technicalities.

Do remember, the Innova costs ALMOST double the price of an Ertiga !!

[ameyawaghmare]

Alto and Swift were expected as always on the top 2 positions. But, it was completely surprising to see Dzire take over WagonR in sheer sales numbers!

Well, with the recent political events in the national capital, I guess WagonR's numbers may go up!

[gurudutt]

Zest and Bolt are definitely worth more than what their sales number show. Fiat is definitely losing steam and Evo/Avventura doesn’t seem to have helped the cause. Fiesta continues its poor performance despite the facelift. Terrano and Duster siblings the only face savers for Nissan and Renault.

[DCEite]

Sad to see Zest and Xcent trailing behind DZire and Amaze.

Both the Xcent and Zest deserve much better numbers, and are better products overall when compared with the Maruti and Honda.

Perhaps its the mediorcre Diesel engine of Xcent and the "TATA" image of Zest that are working against these brands.