[Mpower]

Liena competing against Corolla makes sense, how how will the Grande Punto being a hatch compete against NHC/Accent

[drpullockaran]

Originally Posted by ported_head

I think that the FIAT fanclub needs to start to accept criticisms with a pinch of salt. On a public forum, drpullockaran's ownership experience of the Indica would hold as much weightage as would Steeroid's experience of the Alfa. We have all had good cars and bad cars, often from marques we respect the most. That still doesn't call for biased propaganda.

I may prefer the FIAT for the looks (subjective) and the engine (1.6L, also subjective because not everybody looks for performance), but the fact of the matter is that the Indica still does better in the Indian market, so they must be doing something right.

Guys, let's keep it clean and unbiased and not personal. Some posts may be edited to get thread back on track.

Dear Ported Head,
Being the moderator you have allowed the post by Steeroid about his ownership experience of the ALFA which is still on this forum.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/newrep...reply&p=263844 .

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-c...meo-156-a.html

You allow the post regarding the ALFA, the Nigerian electrical company and also the biased view about Chinese manufactured engines but the moment I mentioned my ownership experience of one of my cars you deem it fit to be deleted completely. If you would present it to other moderators their opinion regarding deletion will vary especially since its a public forum.

[suman]

Dr, this is interesting.....are you suggesting that the moderators on this forum work in isolation & not as a team? That's not what my experience on this forum has shown, I've always found uniformity of thought amongst them.

Perhaps you are just feeling annoyed as your post has been deleted?

Cheers

[GTO]

This is not the place to discuss moderator actions. If you have any issues, feel free to PM the concerned moderator or myself.

Lets stick to the topic.

[shekharlele]

Hi All,

You know, Fiat has thrown all the rules of building a brand out of the window in India. They make good cars and then go smash them with some lousy customer service. Then, they launch new models and ditto. If ever any of you get an opportunity to speak with old siena owners, they would have stories to tell you about the cost of spare parts and availability of service.The only way for Fiat to survive is ensure their existing customers (Uno, Palio, Petra, Siena and Adventure) are happy with the service establishments, probably conduct a research dipstick and communicate to their audience that things are changing. I know many Fiat owners (including myself) who would think twice before buying another Fiat, irrespective of the tata tie-up. India is an interesting country, you have some early adopters and many fence sitters, only when the tribe of adopters grows, do you see a successful product. Existing Fiat customers are these 'adopters', the company needs to win them back.

[roms]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Liena competing against Corolla makes sense, how how will the Grande Punto being a hatch compete against NHC/Accent

Grande Punto at 5.5 -6.5 L will compete with NHC's small brother-the Jazz,which may be launched by 2008.Fiat should be scared.The Punto may be brilliant,but I can pretty much guarantee you that the Honda with its IDSI engine will sell a lot more than the petrol Punto if and when these cars are launched.Its only the multijets that would help Fiats case.

As far as Accents are concerned,the Palio/Petra/Adventure 1.6 are anyways good enough to compete with the Accents.Its another thing that they dont sell.Unless you meant the Verna.

[fight_club]

The only way for Fiat to survive is ensure their existing customers (Uno, Palio, Petra, Siena and Adventure) are happy with the service establishments, probably conduct a research dipstick and communicate to their audience that things are changing. I know many Fiat owners (including myself) who would think twice before buying another Fiat, irrespective of the tata tie-up.

i think customer perception about a company sometime gets attached to a specific product. i think Palio has suffered from it. the other product which Fiat tried Adventure, is an underdeveloped concept here and not just fiat but Fusion, altura, skoda combi all of them reflect our take on Suv/mpv(whatever you would like to call them).

things have ofcourse changed a little with their tie-up with tata but they continue to sell the same product. i think they needed a very good product to make a strong comeback. and Linea would have been their best bet. again Punto can go anywhere(5-6 lacs) since it will be a unique product in a unique category.

what Fiesta has done to ford could be tasted by Fiat also. Fiesta has proved that people are ready to forget if they get an excellent product.
Fiesta coming with a Disel at this segment was proved to be their trump card.
although Accent crdi was already available in the market but agian it suffered from image problem as it was petrol which was introduced earlier.
in a way a good diesel car in c segment was missing and Fiesta at the very outset targeted that section.

going by the same logic its difficult to get a disel car in the elite catagory of corrola, optra(9-10), even if they come up with a diesel option it would not generate the same amount of excitement(not talking about success or failure) as a brand new product with no preconcieved notion will.

i again think Linea seems to be the best bet for Fiat and they will be making a big mistake introducing it as late as 2007 end.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by Mpower

It will be an uphill battle, but I think its easier to start with a new brand rather than try to fix the reputation of a tarnished one.

. But on second thought, FIAT is still not that bad in Indian market- everyone seems to acknowledge that the problem lies with service. So a re-launch may not be a bad idea. This got to be coupled with launch of new models as well as new Service centers (most imp).

Originally Posted by kvish

Lets face it!.. "Cars" have never been the problem for Fiat... Fiat is known to screw up genuinely good cars. The issue is with spares and service. Unless FIAT doesnt setup service centers on their own and revamp their supply chain , localize the spares... I see them heading nowhere...

Agreed! It is so strange that everyone in the country understand the root cause except big shots at FIAT. Afterall FIAT never lacked in number of service centers. The number of FIAT service centers are comparable to that of Ford or GM. They just lacked quality.

The prime question is who gets what out of TATA-FIAT alliance
TATA- Gets technology. I have a feeling that they'll eventually get the FIAT plants too
FIAT- Gets large list of service centers. But do they really need those?

[RX135]

Originally Posted by ported_head

I think that the FIAT fanclub needs to start to accept criticisms with a pinch of salt. On a public forum, drpullockaran's ownership experience of the Indica would hold as much weightage as would Steeroid's experience of the Alfa. We have all had good cars and bad cars, often from marques we respect the most. That still doesn't call for biased propaganda.

While I agree with whatever you say, let's keep Fiat Fanclub out of this. Each car/brand will have fanatic followers, so there is no reason to single out Fiat. I am sure, Fiat Fan club includes many more people who just love the brand, but are quite rational about any criticism. So, let's not generalize it.

Back on the topic, Fiat needs to address 2 things:

• FE of their cars (Master key to success in Indian market).
• Tighter quality control. (This they already have done will with Palio/Petra after disastrous experience with Uno).

I am not too sure how they are going to address FE issue with typical European over-engineered cars. Diesel seems to be the only choice left.

[speedzak]

Congrats Fiat!
Very happy to see that Fiat is launching some good cars here. Linea sure looks good and according to many that car will change the whole mishappenings of Fiat soon. Punto will also be welcomed with a huge round of applause, I think.

But before I see those cars actually being launched here, Please look into somethings which are not very pleasant now and won't be a nice feature in this newly lined up cars!

I was in a Fiat Petra for the last whole week including the weekend. I did some nice distances in it. Blr to Cochin and another 500kms+ inside Kerala.
To be frank, the car is good for a normal diesel car. Ofcourse, there're plenty of improvements to be done in this department. But overall, that was a nice car to drive around. The car also returned some good mileage too.

I was quiet impressed with it until I got to my Grandpa! He asked me about his baby and I started my nice words. He listened to it with lot of happiness and patience. Everything was nice and I thought that was it.
Then the most inevitable happened. Yes, one of the biggest fan of Fiat in my family actually started speaking against it. His biggest problem was the maintence bills he was getting from Fiat and this car coming out from the service station with almost every problem staying intact as it went in. He also had problems sourcing spare parts for the same. Guess what? He decided to trust his 60year old local mechanic with this car for some problems and Fiat was not even ready to have the goodwill of helping him with some important parts. All the Mileage benefits he gets from this diesel car has been very duely sacrificed at the service station. And what satisfaction does a person gets from it? Smiling at lower fuel bills and crying on service bills.
A clutch overhaul costed near to 50k!! I would've got a whole new powersteering assembly and got it fitted too for that amount in a Maruti/Suzuki car. And to add to the woes, the car's clutches gave up flat before the car clocked in 40k on odo!

And is there any real driving satisfaction from this car? I doubt so. It's just an okay car. Nothing special here. The brakes are good, the torque is good, wheelspins in 2nd gear etc... But the brakes do lock after some mild torture, they also fade a bit and forget wheelspinning in 3rd!! So, what's so special about owning this one??

Ok, Now before it's said that it's just one car's problem, I have seen (many a time used myself) my friend's Palio 1.2 going thru almost every problem mentioned above. And that car is good only for drives from a Petrol bunk to next! The fuel efficiency has dropped to 6-7 and sometimes 9 kms per litre!!!

And may I also count the problems faced in aftermarket upgrades in a Palio? Their 98 PCD is very famous. Almost zero availability of alloys. So, fit in 100 PCD alloys with slight modification by a local blacksmith!! And the wheel nuts (or better said; Wheel screws) will cause trouble by fooling around with brake liners etc.... So, get cheap & good for nothing screws from the local hardware shop!!! And they will lose the screw patterns due to incompatibility with the factory screw patterns. If you happen to have a puncture, you are stranded!! Don't remove the wheels!! Because it's very likely that the screw will come out bald and wont fit back in.
And the best part is TVS or any other authorised service guys for Fiat has any idea about this problem or a slution to it.
Oh!!! Forget it, lets just not fit alloys or anything aftermarket which will spoil the heritage of Fiat!

Is this the way a car supposed to be? Will the new Linea etc.. be the same? If it is, then my humble request is to please stop the launch plans as soon as possible. Nay, I would rather love to see the current cars getting better, cheaper and easy to obtain spare parts rather than new cars from Fiat's side.
The wide smile which many Fiat owners have planted on their faces are many a times watered with warm tears at the service stations.
Doesn't Fiat want that to be stopped? Yes, that will be far better than a Linea, Bravo or Brera on our roads!! Period!!!!

[prakashc]

Hey BHPians...I have just brought a marvel. The Fiat Adventure. Superb Drive and Total Security. What a Drive. I agree FE is bad but thats okay. As it is in Mumbai, what average do we expect. Even my Honda city gives me 9. So this ain't a bad deal for the price ...

[RX135]

@speedzak, excellent observations and I am sure most of us will agree with you. FE and Tighter Quality Control is something Fiat needs to keep in mind if they have to survive in Indian market and expect a turn around in their fortunes. Erstwhile PAL/Premier association has done enough damage to the brand for long enough and it requires real serious efforts to turn the fortunes around.

I was speaking with Fiat salesman sometime back and he said Fiat messed up with Palio due to poor marketing. It never offered any discounts while Hyundai/Maruti kept the interest alive with discounts and different schemes. Fiat could not differentiate Palio from Santros/Wagon-Rs and Zens, like Swift/Getz did later. So, Fiat failed to cross magic number of 1,00,000 cars on road. Having road presence really plays heavy on potential customer's mind.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by prakashc

Hey BHPians...I have just brought a marvel. The Fiat Adventure. Superb Drive and Total Security. What a Drive. I agree FE is bad but thats okay. As it is in Mumbai, what average do we expect. Even my Honda city gives me 9. So this ain't a bad deal for the price ...

Congrats Prakashc on your drive. However if u check the Fiat Brazil site they now have the adventure with the 1.8 litre scorcher of a powerplant. Infact the Palio too has a hot hatch called 1.8R. But unfortunately that sort of a powerplant wont sell here. By the way, what will sell here are the JTS (Jet Turbo Stoichiometric - meaning mostly gasolene direct injection ) engines which could start off a petrol engine revolution as the CRDi did for the diesels. Without doing that, I personally dont think Fiat is going to pull off anything extraordinary in India with its range of petrol engines. However 1.8r for a select few might not make much sense but whats wrong in dreaming!

But definitely the JTD's are going to rock (but not much, Fiat's actually gave the game away to the others, which should have been Fiats in the first place)

[amit]

The problem with Fiat is they are too slow in doing things. Typical European atttitude, I guess. Anyway, Fiat has firmed up plans on exporting the right hand drive Indian made Linea's to Singapore next year. I guess the Italians are finally on track here.

Story: Business Standard.

[gunbir]

Originally Posted by brraj

Shocked, Fiat Linea with 140-150 bhp under 8-9lkhs.
This will shake the whole car industry

Yes. Just like they did when they launched a 100bhp 1.6 years ago (insert sarcastic smiley here).

I love Italian engineering. Have sold Italian products for more than 11 years now. Just wish Fiat would get its act right in India.