[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

There is no investment to be made here. Everything is ready, they just have to plonk it in! They have the 1.5 iVTEC, which is compatible with the chassis. They have the CVT, which is compatible with the application. They have managed to mate the CVT with the diesel engine as well. Any and every combination of engine and gearbox is possible now. Only the management's will is missing, otherwise all the ingredients are right there.

Automotive manufacturing is not that simple mate.
Every engine - Gear- Box - Chassis - Drive Train - Suspension - Tyre combination has to be tested to a fair degree of satisfaction to ensure no recalls later.

Also components like shafts may need different lengths for different engine bays, these shafts will need to be designed, transferred to the supplier, tested for supplier quality at prototype stage, followed by mass production of the supplier (which includes procurement of machinery etc)

Why do you think Maruti launches special edition vehicles with sticker jobs only, any mechanical changes require massive time investment of the R&D, Testing team.

[vipul_singh]

This is a widespread problem, with manufacturers trying to maintain artificial differentiation being at the root. Other examples:

1) why no 1.5 petrol option in the Jazz, when the Jazz is the parent car and the City is the derivative? Worldwide, the Jazz sells with the 130bhp 1.5 engine. Maybe the fact that they are able to sell the derivative product for lakhs higher (all going into gross margin, I guess) is at the root of this.

2) why is there no manual gearbox on the 2.8 diesel Crysta, when there is one in the Fortuner? Why no VSC and 6 airbags on the petrol manual variant either? The whole thing is setup in a way that it you need a manual diesel / petrol Crysta with 7 seats and safety features, then you need to buy a Fortuner. Again, how do you differentiate a related product so that you can sell it at 10 lakh more?

The list is endless.

Edit: that the Jazz is doing 2k against 4k of the City is driven by Honda's product planning decision to try to make it look not-as-hot as the City / W-RV, and not the other way around.

[Akshitsi]

As much as i agree to the fact that the WR-V should get a CVT variant, we should not forget the fact that it will increase the price of the car even further. With the i-Dtec VX variant costing about 11 lakhs plus, the CVT would take this price in the 12 lakhs ballpark. Paying 12 lakhs for a crossover which is nothing more than a few features added to the Jazz on paper does not feel VFM to me.

Also, this steep pricing is suicidal as it would also make the car fall in City's price range, which could cannibalise their Hot selling sedan (especially for the ones who're aiming to buy the lower variants).

Further, i read another news where Honda is eyeing to launch a few more SUVs for the Indian market. It could that mean that it's the end of the era for the WR-V very soon and it could get replaced with another model.

[Waspune]

Following points come to my mind wrt WRV not coming with auto tyranny, not necessarily in this order:

1) 1.2 auto in WRV would further increase the sticker price which isn't low by any means and people might start favoring other diesel alternatives. Yes they can get the CVT to the 'V' variant but that combo they already have in the Jazz.
2) Honda is well versed that its clientele isn't power hungry. At the same time the extra weight (wrt Jazz) won't have any performance benefit.
3) The WRV already has a sunroof. Does it require more?

Honda has very well differentiated its products, maybe to prevent cannibalization:

1) Want a 1.2 CVT: Get a Jazz
2) Want a sunroof : Get a WRV
3) Want the 1.5 iVTEC: Get the City

Note: Haven't included the Brio based products here.

[NPV]

I think the primary reason for the missing CVT auto transmission option in the WR-V is the possible cannibalisation effect it can have on other cars in the Honda lineup.

Honda needs some fresh thoughts infused into their strategy, possibly need to take a leaf out of the recent Toyota Yaris launch - Automatic transmission option available in every variant!

[ownerofazkaban]

Amaze vx idtec costs 8,58,000 vs WRV VX idtec costs 9,99,900/- I don't see scope for CVT is wrv diesel. WRV has priced itself out of future competition.

For crossing 10L ex showroom,Many states have +5% additional road tax plus 1% TDS makes it no go for wrv. WRV already has hefty profit margins for Honda, comparing to Jazz.

[landcruiser123]

My dad told me that the Jazz AT was horrible compared to the Baleno AT. He finally ended up buying the Ciaz AT over the Baleno and the Jazz.

Honda has a brilliant 1.5 petrol + CVT and a diesel AT. I think they should give the WR-V both the powertrains to differentiate it from the Jazz. I'm sure the price would be pretty high, but I think the Indian customer will be willing to pay given the WR-V sells pretty well already. With Maruti offering a Brezza diesel AMT and Ford offering the ecosport AT with the new petrol engine, it makes sense for Honda to offer more with the WR-V.

[MaheshY1]

I'm sure that's the plan. Honda is eventually going to bring the WRV diesel AT. The Amaze diesel CVT buyers are going to have to do about a year worth of Beta testing before Honda brings the CVT to the WRV.

I'm not getting my hopes high for the 1.5 petrol though as it'll eat up the City.

When the WRV launched, I was sure that it'll sway at least a few City buyers and that it'll be a hot seller. It is a hot seller. The small gap between the petrol and diesel WRV launch price also suggested that Honda isn't even interested in selling the petrol.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

I'm sure that's the plan. Honda is eventually going to bring the WRV diesel AT. The Amaze diesel CVT buyers are going to have to do about a year worth of Beta testing before Honda brings the CVT to the WRV.

I'm not getting my hopes high for the 1.5 petrol though as it'll eat up the City.

When the WRV launched, I was sure that it'll sway at least a few City buyers and that it'll be a hot seller. It is a hot seller. The small gap between the petrol and diesel WRV launch price also suggested that Honda isn't even interested in selling the petrol.

I really don't get this argument. They are not getting a 1.5L petrol in Jazz as a sports edition or in the W-RV because it will eat into the city sales?

I mean isn't that fine? To have a buyer chose between vehicles parked in the same showroom.

So they purposely don't give the Jazz and W-Rv a good engine that it deserves cause it easts into the sales of their more expensive high margin sedan. Doesn't that mean a buyer looking at a hatch or compact SUV who wants a little more power will just go over to the Ford showroom or even consider the Nexon.

They would rather lose a Honda customer than have a customer cross shop between honda cars? Not very smart marketing I would say.

[Chetan_Rao]

Honda's strategy seems to be overprice an under-equipped product (relative to competition), then make excuses about how adding features will make it even more expensive, all the while diluting product quality so they're now neither solid quality, nor well-equipped nor priced competitively.

Caught in the middle of nowhere, all of their own making and the sales charts reflect that.

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I really don't get this argument. They are not getting a 1.5L petrol in Jazz as a sports edition or in the W-RV because it will eat into the city sales?

Bingo! City's 2 most important USPs are the 1.5 ivtec and sunroof. Honda gave the sunroof to the WRV so it can't give ivtec otherwise City's sales would definitely get cannibalised and Honda can't afford it.
I know about people who wanted to buy Jazz auto but eventually bought the city because of the better and more powerful CVT.

[bansal.sushant]

One thing is auto manufactures being stupid, but another is us being over optimistic or having wishful thinking.

Not updating Brio - stupid.
Not bringing in the Civic - stupid.
Bringing only the overpriced hybrid version of Accord - very stupid.

Expecting a 1.5 iVtec with CVT on a WRV - wishful thinking.

It sounds very tempting on paper, but Honda will never offer the WRV with the 1.5L engine, they should, but they won't. Or they might offer it and then increase the cost to bring it to City levels. It will not just lead to cannibalization but also take away City's exclusive, it will also lead to an increase in WRV's price taking away the value propagation factor.

We can expect WRV to have the Diesel CVT, since they are already offering that on the Amaze, and I do think they will, in time. They should also offer the CVT on 1.2L, I don't understand the logic behind that. :P

Two upcoming Honda SUVs were spotted a few days ago, maybe they are saving it for that?

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I really don't get this argument. They are not getting a 1.5L petrol in Jazz as a sports edition or in the W-RV because it will eat into the city sales?

I don't buy it either. It's not like City sells only because of the 1.5L engine. Also, 1.5L iVtec does duty on Mobilio/BR-V too and that didn't affect City sales.

Not introducing large powerful engine in a small hatchback is probably decided by "market research" and also available sales data from other car manufacturers (S-Cross 1.3 vs 1.6, i20 1.2 vs 1.4, Polo 1.2 vs 1.6, Punto 1.2 vs 1.4, Etios Liva 1.2 Vs 1.5 and so on).

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by smartcat

I don't buy it either. It's not like City sells only because of the 1.5L engine. Also, 1.5L iVtec does duty on Mobilio/BR-V too and that didn't affect City sales.

Well Mobilio/BRV are 7 seaters and their positioning is totally different IMHO. The Jazz platform is the more superior platform too when compared to the Brio platform on which the Mobilio/BRV is based upon.
Let's not even talk about the Jazz but at least the WRV should have got the 1.5 ivtec which is priced near the Mobilio and even the BRV.

Originally Posted by smartcat

Not introducing large powerful engine in a small hatchback is probably decided by "market research" and also available sales data from other car manufacturers (S-Cross 1.3 vs 1.6, i20 1.2 vs 1.4, Polo 1.2 vs 1.6, Punto 1.2 vs 1.4, Etios Liva 1.2 Vs 1.5 and so on).

Agree here. If only Jazz could have launched in a sports variant rivaling the GT TSI, Baleno RS and Abarth Punto with the sweet 1.5 ivtec! But it seems Honda isn't interested in that segment.

[tweaker]

This decision by Honda bewilders me. I've had at least 2 of my friends who were fixated on the WR-V move to other brands just because of the lack of an Automatic. How hard can it be to port over the existing engine+gearbox combo from other models in their lineup? Sure the price would increase a bit, but Honda can do some reshuffling of their product lines to keep the costs competitive.