[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by neeravnaik

Wonder how many women have weighed in on this debate on.

- There is tendency to quickly blame a "lady driver" in road incidents like men are super blessed to be great drivers even while causing majority of accidents.

Anyway on the topic at hand I will say that it is difficult for women in public spaces in general in our country and driving is one way which they claim these spaces. So I am in support of this decision.

I am sorry, your views are utterly outdated.

What I have seen with my eyes In a couple of accidents, is that the crowd gathers and starts blaming the man for the accident and help escape the lady/women escape without paying the cost of damages even when the lady is clearly at fault.

In one case, a lady overtaking a stationary car in a signal fell down and the idiotic crowd was blaming the guy in the car
The lady herself went on with her business without blaming anyone.


This whole safety of women is used as a chip by Indian parents/ men of the family in general to prevent women from going out and being independent in general.

Anyways we are going OT.

[SLK]

Let me put things into perspective. 50% of my family members are women and they drive and this exemption actually helps my family and any free-bees are always welcome! Makes me happy that they can drive even during this non-sense and that too in less traffic!

But this whole thing is stupidity, and cannot be analysed in isolation only for women. Women get an exemption from a wrong and deliberate move by the government, doesn't make it right or justified. While this exemption is being called in the interest of safety, it is nothing but appeasement, which leads to women not being inconvenienced (which is good too!, but calling it safety concern is a lie). There is no argument to say, why women shouldn't be exempt, if someone can be saved from this inconvenience, why not!, may be that actually applies to everyone! all should be exempt.

I get travel sick, when I sit in a cab and a one hour cab ride is so torturous. I do try to sit in the front, when possible but its not always easy there too.

I stopped burning crackers in Diwali, I sold all Diesel cars before they were close to 10 years old, I often get the common areas near my house cleaned at my personal expense and I will buy an electric car when it becomes feasible to get one. I'm actually doing more than the government to control pollution, which is only washing trees and banning male car owners.

Originally Posted by am1m

So do ask them if they'd rather drive themselves or take public transport/walk - which was your point, that both are equally safe/risky.

The cars were primarily bought for convenience because we could afford it and not for safety. An UBER is as safe (during broad daylight!), but it is not easy to always find one in work hours and if you find one, you end up paying 3x during these days.

BTW, one thing should be understood, people owning cars will not shift to buses/ metro during odd-even, they will take cabs, so lets not use the term public-transport as one general mode as it is overcrowded and unsafe for most!

[Sanidhya mukund]

We must realise that the scheme actually applies to a very small section of the society. The working class were any way using the buses and metro. Then quite a large section were using two wheelers. Quite a lot of people use cabs.
Among those who drive their own cars, women drivers are exempt. Also, there is quite a number of multi car households having both odd and even numbered cars.
So that means that the schemes only specifically is for the men who use their only car for their daily commute. They probably contribute to about less then 10% of the total vehicular pollution. Then what is the whole point of implementing this, if it is doing next to nothing to prevent pollution? Let November come, we will still see headlines saying that Delhi has the worst air in the world, irrespective of whether this gets implemented or not. The only thing being 'accomplished' is that they are causing inconvience to men going to work to support their family or students going to give exams.

[susheel_kainat]

Empowering one gender at the cost of enslaving another gender is something that was done in the past and looks like it is still continuing though the gender preference has toggled its position. And after all this atrocity, they claim this as "Gender Equality"

[DaptChatterjee]

Meanwhile stubble burning has started already in Punjab. Reported cases are almost twice of last year for the same period
Link

In farmers' defence, they still don't have feasible alternatives/incentives.

[sachin_cs]

I have a slightly different perspective here, this is not about the odd-even rationality, but regarding the exemption of women drivers. Before assuming any prejudices, I just want you to think of the below situation with an open mind.

I'm talking about a real life situation. My girl, she drives to her work everyday and she usually returns by 8 or sometimes by 10 in the evening. The area where her workplace is situated, it's not best connected in terms of last mile connectivity and I can't expect her to take metro as well because by 10ish the frequency of metros also start diminishing. I'm not saying that I'm in favour of odd-even but atleast I support this decision of having exemption on women drivers.

Just try to imagine yourself in my shoes, that what if your girlfriend/daughter/wife/mother is supposed to commute at late in the evening in Delhi.

And as far as odd-even is concerned, we already are having a healthy discussion with some amazing inputs by our TeamBHP family. My message is to those who feel that there should be no discrimination based on gender, but I won't call it discrimination in this particular situation considering the safety concerns of our women in Delhi, but yes we do have the full right to criticize the government on their part for not providing an efficient transport and safe environment.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by sachin_cs

I have a slightly different perspective here, this is not about the odd-even rationality, but regarding the exemption of women drivers. Before assuming any prejudices, I just want you to think of the below situation with an open mind.

I'm talking about a real life situation. My girl, she drives to her work everyday and she usually returns by 8 or sometimes by 10 in the evening. The area where her workplace is situated, it's not best connected in terms of last mile connectivity and I can't expect her to take metro as well because by 10ish the frequency of metros also start diminishing. I'm not saying that I'm in favour of odd-even but atleast I support this decision of having exemption on women drivers.

No one is disputing this, but at 4AM, how am I better of, how does gender change that? Or you think Delhi roads are full of rapists and not carjackers and looters and other anti-social elements, seen Delhi news lately? - My car was stopped in the middle of the road and mobile phone looted. My male colleges car tyre was punctured with a sharp rod and then looted.

Anyways, someone drives a car to work, how do you suddenly start comparing it to taking a metro at night, instead take a uber, share your location. Ubers do reach the last mile. Worried about cost, but that's gender neutral too!

While it benefits women, and it should! doesn't make it justified for real reasons.

Its the modern-era divide-and-rule and people are taking the bait, just like they did back then, politics hasn't changed, neither have people learnt!

[am1m]

Originally Posted by SLK

No one is disputing this, but at 4AM, how am I better of, how does gender change that?

If you really believe that gender does not make a difference when it comes to safety in public places anywhere in the world, let alone India, well I guess nothing will change your mind.

Originally Posted by SLK

While it benefits women, and it should! doesn't make it justified for real reasons.

Yet again:

Originally Posted by sachin_cs

... this is not about the odd-even rationality, but regarding the exemption of women drivers.

------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by SLK

Its the modern-era divide-and-rule and people are taking the bait, just like they did back then, politics hasn't changed, neither have people learnt!

Originally Posted by susheel_kainat

Empowering one gender at the cost of enslaving another gender is something that was done in the past and looks like it is still continuing

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Divide and rule knows no bounds.

Really interesting to know that so many men actually interpret it in this way.

[oxyzen]

Divide and rule knows no bounds. I am not saying if it is good or bad, but we Indians are being categorized in very aspect of our lives.

1. Age: Juveniles are treated differently even for Rape. Isn't this ridiculous. Senior citizens gets a lot of benefits some of which are probably not justified.
2. Religion: The biggest political tool to win votes.
3. Caste: Now with 50% quota in education and govt jobs, what is there for the general public.
4. Gender: Now the latest privilege with exemption from odd even rule.
5. Wealth: This one is justified as the people with higher income pays higher taxes. There are LIG, MIG housing options for the less wealthy, but it still does not work, as the wealthiest businessmen, doctors, lawyers evade all taxes. It is the common salaried people who gets the stick.

If you are an adult male in the general category. Screw you.
When will we get true equality?

[octane_100]

All other issues aside, this odd even scheme must be the rule with the longest "exclusions" list! Enforcement of this would be a nightmare.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by am1m

If you really believe that gender does not make a difference when it comes to safety in public places anywhere in the world, let alone India, well I guess nothing will change your mind.

You are imagining it now! Who said women are not at risk more than men in general. But do you really believe, middle of the night driving alone makes a woman safer? If an uber makes it unsafe for woman how much does it change for men. The fact is this is not the way to ensure safety, there are other measures all of us take for that, even making a Male colleague go along to drop home.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by SLK

You are imagining it now! Who said women are not at risk more than men in general.

I misunderstood then, thanks for clarifying.

Originally Posted by SLK

But do you really believe, middle of the night driving alone makes a woman safer?

Safer than walking or taking public transport/cab. Not just midnight, at any time of the day. Yes I do think so. And that's not just based on what I think, that's based on what I've heard from several women who chose to purchase cars because of that fact.

But I guess we've gone over this a lot, don't think we'll come to a meaningful conclusion. At least until our forum gets a lot more female participation and we get to hear more of their point of view.

So let's agree to disagree I guess.

[coldice4u]

Its a democracy at the end of the day! Its just not possible to make everyone happy.
At the end of the day, results matter and that is all that matters to me too. It was reported earlier that the odd even scheme had managed to decrease the pollution levels by some percentage points.
I have already started feeling a sore throat and we have visible pollution starting here in the NCR. Its mostly the straw burning, but anything that helps people breathe, I'm all for it!

[harry10]

Originally Posted by octane_100

All other issues aside, this odd even scheme must be the rule with the longest "exclusions" list! Enforcement of this would be a nightmare.

Everyone in the NCR region knows this is just a PR stunt done by the govt. The effect on pollution is hardly noticable. And with the kind of exemptions its laughable. If govt. was really serious no exemptions of any kind would have been done. Anyways, I have both odd and even number cars so my office commute wont be affected. I welcome less congestion on these days.

[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by sachin_cs

I'm talking about a real life situation. My girl, she drives to her work everyday and she usually returns by 8 or sometimes by 10 in the evening. The area where her workplace is situated, it's not best connected in terms of last mile connectivity and I can't expect her to take metro as well because by 10ish the frequency of metros also start diminishing. I'm not saying that I'm in favour of odd-even but atleast I support this decision of having exemption on women drivers.

No one here is asking for the exemption for women to be removed. Show me even one single post which asks for the same.

Safety of women is a concern and is paramount but that doesn't mean men can be discriminated against. If the policy can't be implemented universally, it deserves to be scrapped.

Anyways, its unscientific and useless as only 10% of emissions is vehicular.

Originally Posted by am1m

Really interesting to know that so many men actually interpret it in this way.

Because, if a law is against women, its sexist, patriarchal and what not. But a law which explicitly favors women is not sexist. Woah!

Originally Posted by am1m

But I guess we've gone over this a lot, don't think we'll come to a meaningful conclusion. At least until our forum gets a lot more female participation and we get to hear more of their point of view.

Discrimination is discrimination regardless of the gender it affects and whether its justified or not.

People like you even refuse to accept giving preferential treatment to women is discriminating against others, in this case men.

Discrimination just doesn't stop being one just because women benefit and men are affected.