[romeomidhun]

The Nexa channel seemed to be a master stroke at the initial stages, but now it raises some questions. All the Nexa models except Baleno are at the bottom of Maruti's sales numbers - whether it is Ciaz, S-Cross, Ignis or XL6. The case may not be different for the upcoming XL-5 based on the Wagon-R.

[chaturgaurav]

Originally Posted by gururajrv

1) Harrier sales up! Discounts helping?
Seltos falls steep. What happened here? Creta overtook.

Originally Posted by behaln

2. Otherwise slow sellers Harrier, Kicks and XUV 500 have gained the sales. Is it due to the year end discounting?
3. Top losers are Seltos, Endeavour and surprisingly S Cross. Fortuner is in the list since Toyota is not despatching from the factory. Has the initial Euphoria for the Seltos died resulting in decline in sales.

Of course discounts must have definitely helped the Harrier sales, but I think Harrier could genuinely be picking up. I will also watch out for the upcoming Harrier facelift loaded with the features currently missing. - A serious competition to Seltos and Hector!

Also, I believe Seltos did not lose the charm, Kia did it on purpose. As others have already pointed out earlier, the price hike was already announced for January. So, they must have throttled the dispatch to dealerships to make maximum gains. Unfair strategy, if that is.
Jan/Feb figures will tell the true story I guess.

Originally Posted by gururajrv

6) Heard somewhere Rapid beating City and Verna with its sales. Skoda seems to be upping the game with their customer service? Or is it the year end discounts?

Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv

Can't help wondering about two things
1. If certain cars are doing well post discounts, that probably means that the market perceives these cars as worthy assets. Case being the Skoda Rapid or the Nissan Kicks. Something that the manufacturer needs to note.

Skoda sold galore due to discounts only and no other reason. With discounts (someone mentioned that they bought Rapid at the price of Ciaz) this definitely becomes VFM, the brand value it brings and also the build quality if the German make that is missing in Maruti and now even in Honda. Having said that, overpricing is not the only reason for their poor sales in general, WV family cars are already dated (except of course VW Polo, which still looks fresh) and there ASS sucks.

[uditsharma01]

The last few months of the previous year haven't been bad for the automobile industry.

However, the sales of C2 sedans are really worrying. As a sedan person, it is really heartbreaking to see the segment gets a massive beating from the crossovers and CSUVs.

Is it just the bandwagon or are the CSUVs really that practical and VFM? For me, nothing beats the practicality, driveability and comfort of a sedan.

[TheHelix0202]

Originally Posted by chaturgaurav

...overpricing is not the only reason for their poor sales in general, WV family cars are already dated (except of course VW Polo, which still looks fresh) and there ASS sucks.

How would you define dated? Timeless or outdated? There's a vast difference between the two.

I agree with the ASS being shabby, but not the fact that all VAG cars are dated. There's the Kodiaq for example that isn't. The Vento and the Polo are basically the same, and the Rapid too. So if one of them is old, the others are old too, which makes them all old (again timeless/outdated).

Looks-wise, I don't think most owners would agree with you. It's the timeless design that makes them last so long in the market. I don't see one particular design from the stables of Honda lasting this long. This may be part of VAG's plan too; what with decreasing C-segment sedan sales, they are probably trying to play it safe without bringing a next gen Vento/Polo/Rapid. I may be wrong, it could be sheer laziness.

BTW, a top end Vento or Rapid is cheaper than the equivalent City/Verna.

[sgmuser]

Just my observations based on my keen interests.

MG with just one model sold exactly 3021, as much as Ford, which has 6 models!

Kia which sold 14000 plus Seltos last month, managed to sell only 4000 plus this month.

Miracles of Mahindras - Bolero, one of the few cars which sold more in Dec 2019 than Nov 2019 at 5.1k vs 5.6k, Scorpio sold just a little less than last month at 3.6k. These models and their success should be a subject in MBA!

Glanza sold around 1600 units in Dec 2019 which made the Toyota total numbers a respectable one.

I am personally happy to see Harrier doubling this month compared to last month at 1.4k.

Fiat at zero dispatches again. As Jeep Wrangler owner, looking at Jeep destiny closely in India. 700+ Compasses. Nothing else in the list.

Fortuner sold the lowest in the recent times at 600+ and Endeavour at 200+. Slow economy hitting the HNI as well?

[petrol_power]

So Fiat - Are they not exiting India fearing people may panic and avoid Jeep ? I am sure that they do not need such big office spaces, factories and real-estate for being an OEM engine supplier.

HM-Mitsubishi - 0 dispatches. How are they managing to pay the salaries of employees? Is the operation still kept in India to deliberately post some loss in the globe for some reasons?

Volkswagen - Launched Tiguan almost 3 years before and other models require carbon dating !! No interest plus bad service. Still customers have taken the initiative to ensure VW stays in India, which shows how under-engineered products are given by competition.

Toyota - Found their way forward by re-branding Maruti cars. Will work for few years and would sink after that. Fortuner and innova may be good and had the first mover advantage when there weer very few SUVs, till now. 2020 and henceforth is going to be the years of SUV in India. Also once customers gain more trust and faith in Kia, MG, Great Wall, etc I feel Toyota is destined to sink in India.

Nissan - Has not lost hope and tried with recent product - Kicks. I guess they would keep on trying as long as its sister concerns are doing decent numbers and have a motivation and hope about future.

Skoda - lot of plans for India - good.

Tata - let them keep on trying. One day they may succeed if the marketing + Design + Engineering team fall in sync.

Kia, GW, MG - Too early to think how they will be placed in India by 2025.

Not able to visualize Indian automotive industry in India by 2025 - I feel Fiat, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, Ford, Toyota will exit their core DNA or would exit India in totality. Kia, GW, MG would depend on its service levels as they have proved that they are good in marketing and design.
Confirmed players would be Maruti, Hyundai, Tata, Mahindra, Skoda, Honda.

[murillo]

Reason for drop in Kia Seltos numbers - exports.

Kia has started to export made-in-India Seltos to 40 countries. They exported 6,341 units of Seltos in December.

For further details: https://auto.ndtv.com/news/india-spe...r-2019-2159526

[desertfox]

Why does the Toyota Yaris record such poor sales in India ? Hyundai Verna sales are much better.

A very good product like Nissan Sunny failed to take off in India.

Is it because this segment sees customers moving to mid sized SUVs?

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by desertfox

A very good product like Nissan Sunny failed to take off in India.

Mechanically good or bad, Sunny/ Scala is such an awkward-looking car. Just like the first gen Dzire and Logan/Verito.

To succeed in India, you need the car to be handsome too. Look at EcoSport, Kwid, Triber etc.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by desertfox

Why does the Toyota Yaris record such poor sales in India ? Hyundai Verna sales are much better.

A very good product like Nissan Sunny failed to take off in India.

Yaris is overpriced, not really spacious and it lacks a diesel mill.

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Mechanically good or bad, Sunny/ Scala is such an awkward-looking car. Just like the first gen Dzire and Logan/Verito.

To succeed in India, you need the car to be handsome too. Look at EcoSport, Kwid, Triber etc.

+1

Another very competent product that failed because it was ugly - Renault Lodgy

[subraiyr]

Dear All


I am not sure if such a thread exists or even warrants being called out specifically. However, curiosity takes over. Mod please do delete or move as required
I was spending sometime with the analysis of the auto industry in India in the last few years and something interesting came up. When i looked at the global auto leaders in terms of their ranking, the Indian market seems to have missed out on some of the big ones.

Below link provides a view of the 2019 rankings as per Global Automobile Database. I am posting an extract and some questions
https://focus2move.com/world-car-group-ranking/


Of the list of top 10 automotive firms -

1. Volkswagen - Waiting and waiting for new models

2. Toyota - No new models and rebadging of Suzuki designs

3. Renault Nissan Alliance - While Renault is doing ok, Nissan is again floundering on its way
4.GM - Has left India
5. Hyundai - Kia - Strong
6. Ford - Is now a JV for product development
7. Honda Motor - Nothing new in its stable

8. FCA - Jeep is the only one in the stable
9. PSA - Nowhere there in India
10. Mercedes Diamler - Doing good in its segment


Questions
1. How authentic is this report ?

2. Why are the big names not faring well in Indian market ?

3. Why are the rest of the big names not upgrading their products to global standards for the Indian market ?

[VaidhiR]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

1. How authentic is this report?

2. Why are the big names not faring well in Indian market?

3. Why are the rest of the big names not upgrading their products to global standards for the Indian market?

Whilst I am not in any position to identify if the report is legit or not, I can throw in my 2 cents about questions 2 and 3.

In my opinion, it is a combination of competition, lessons learnt and local laws.

There are atleast 4 models to choose from in every segment of cars. And added to that, there are crossovers that are being developed by every OEM. Competition is fierce and OEMs are focussing on customer retention by expanding their portfolio. If your first car was a Santro, and you are looking to buy another car, you would probably go for a Hyundai because you were happy with it. Even if the sentiment isnt as strong as to blindly buy it, the chances are that Hyundai will be on the top of your mind. So OEMs are offering everything under their own umbrella to entice the customer with the motto "If you are happy with us, stay with us." This gives us a spectrum of choices to choose from. But the question is, how many OEMs, worldwide, have that "all under one roof" motto? Out of that list, VW, Toyota, Renault, Hyundai have it. And there is a reason why they perform better than the others.

As with GM and Ford, I say, its more to do with lessons learnt. Or the lack of it. To some extent FCA and PSA as well. They entered the Indian market in the late 90s and early 00s and what have they learnt since then? Hyundai entered at the same time and look at where they are. These 4 OEMs ignored the Indian market. But having worked with Opel, I can say that there was a feeling inside that GM wanted to prioritise their Chevrolet brand in India than Opel. God knows why they launched the Opel. This was simply a case of stubborness and reluctance to learn from history. I am a huge fan of their Corsa, Astra and Insignia models and think they would do very well in India. But unfortunately they wont launch them. I hope to be proven wrong.

Local laws are another culprit. Fuel quality is not as it is in the western world. This makes the OEMs invest more in R&D to make their cars run on local fuel. Ford have some amazing engines. PSA and GM are no less. Dont even have to mention BMW and Mercedes engines. But the cost to invest in an engine R&D far outweights the profits that they aim to make out of it. Which is why, the Indian govt. decided to jump directly to BS6. European cars have Euro 6d as their latest. This switch to BS6 might help the OEMs to get in world class engines. But then again, adultration is an issue that is rampant in India. This epidemic just wont show the OEMs the green light they need to bring in their Euro 6 class engines. We will have BS6 engines. But they wont perform to the same levels as their western world equivalents.

Whilst we are on the law front, Safety is seen as a tertiary requirement. The lack of safety awareness is putting off OEMs from launching their world class products as well. A well renouned OEM in India had received 0 stars from the B-NCAP when their European equivalent got 5 stars from a more stringent evaluation criteria. This OEM took a hit in reputation that could've been avoided in hindsight. But it was too late and the damage was already done. The same OEM revamped their car and today, I think has a 3 star B-NCAP rating. And other OEMs dont want to risk their already fragile reputation. Hence OEMs are slow to adapt. Just realised, this also answers Q3.

[Vipin Kumar]

I feel that VW and Skoda are defying the idea that a dated car will be of less value in the market. Perhaps, completing ten years without any generation change, Polo and Vento are becoming more sustainable cars in terms of value. One can buy these cars without the feeling that they will be dated and lose value in no time. They may be "dated" but that is only in a sense of chronology and time. Not in the sense of their presence on the roads.

These cars are in fact becoming the best choices for those who are not lavish enough to go after new models. And these cars are also mostly feature rich.

Skoda Rapid did not have the second facelift corresponding to the facelift Vento and Polo have had in 2019. Given that the next generation Rapid is still away, can we expect another minor facelift and addition of features?

The reduction in price must be a major factor that induced sale here. The offer -- diesel at the price of petrol -- also must have helped Skoda to sell Rapid in so many numbers. But beating Verna and City in sale numbers is like, surprising.

It may also be possible that most of Rapid sold are diesels, as they have to finish their inventory by March 2020.

[skarthiksr]

Originally Posted by Vipin Kumar

The reduction in price must be a major factor that induced sale here. The offer -- diesel at the price of petrol -- also must have helped Skoda to sell Rapid in so many numbers. But beating Verna and City in sale numbers is like, surprising.

Agree on this. Skoda cut down the ex-showroom price of Rapid to 9.99L (1.35L discount) for Petrol AT Ambition in the month of December. They had discounts on similar scale on their diesel variants including automatic. The discounts should have definitely helped them in getting these sales numbers.

[ashokabs]

One of the problems with the Indian market is that bulk of the cars are less than 4 M in length or less than 1200 cc engine size thanks to taxation. In this area there are only a few specialist car manufacturers world-wide - Suzuki and Hyundai being two of the better known. These manufacturers are getting good sales across the board and their small cars are doing very well in India. GM and even Ford were again at somewhat of a loss in this category of cars. They had to develop India specific models. I think the only company that seems to be succeeding is Renault thanks to the Kwid and Triber which are specially designed as value for money for India market. As the Indian market grows and other markets (barring China) shrink even the bigger car companies internationally will again throw their hat into the ring. However, this time it will mostly be EVs.

Originally Posted by VaidhiR

Whilst I am not in any position to identify if the report is legit or not, I can throw in my 2 cents about questions 2 and 3.

In my opinion, it is a combination of competition, lessons learnt and local laws. ......