[BUSA]

in fact no other Japanese manufacturer, Toyota included can make composed smooth engines like Honda does

No wonder Honda's engines blow the most in formula1

[redsfx]

I would go with the awesome RS anytime.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by BUSA

No wonder Honda's engines blow the most in formula1

Guess Ayrton Senna/Prost in McLaren Honda domination in F-1 over Ferrai and others didn't mean anything, it was just a fluke, also the fact that at Silverstone, Mansell's record breaking qualifying lap on a 1.5L SOA high boost PGM-FI turbo Williams just came out of air.

Ignoring history.........Honda dominates Champ car circuit of today, their main market is US, F-1 is secondary. Need I remind of Honda's domination in Moto GP. Granted, current Honda F-1 team is a shade of the McLaren, they blow their engines due to the chassis putting undue stress on it, put that engine in a Williams and you will see history repeated provided you can get someone like Senna to harness it.

Btw: When did any Suzuki( Hyabusa ) bike win MotoGP or WBC? My memory fades.........

I can't imagine how a sludge bucket 4 cylinder turbo from econo car manufacturer VW who gets caught in ************** scams prevails in terms of performance over a silky smooth V6, wonders will never cease in India.

[Ajay-GD]

Originally Posted by navin

Mugen Honda is about 5.5L more than an Octi. right?

What car are you talking about? The mugen Legend max? thats not an accord and that uses a v8 taken from the racing series engines, and thats not a production car....so forget about it

[Ajay-GD]

Originally Posted by BUSA

No wonder Honda's engines blow the most in formula1

You are forgetting the success that Honda had in it's early f1 years, and the fact that now they are a formidable team

[BUSA]

When did any Suzuki( Hyabusa ) bike win MotoGP or WBC? My memory fades.........

I never claim about the same, infact my nick is BUSA since the Hayabusa is the first bike to break the 300kmph barrier, look at my profile and you will see a Yamaha YZF R1

Guess Ayrton Senna/Prost in McLaren Honda domination in F-1 over Ferrai and others didn't mean anything, it was just a fluke, also the fact that at Silverstone, Mansell's record breaking qualifying lap on a 1.5L SOA high boost PGM-FI turbo Williams just came out of air.

All these are past glories, presently Honda's F1 team is horible and they do end up blowing their engines quite often and yes by no means Honda's engines are the best in F1 too, infact the first engine to touch 20000RPM was BMW's in the Williams chassis 3 years back or so.

I would request you to drive a RS and then compare it to a Accord, AFAIK the RS engines already has forged parts.

I can't imagine how a sludge bucket 4 cylinder turbo from econo car manufacturer VW who gets caught in whoremongering scams prevails in terms of performance over a silky smooth V6, wonders will never cease in India.

The comparission over here is not between the V6 of the Accord and the 4 cylinder engine of the RS, its between the 2.4L engine. And VW owns Audi and Audi won this years Le Mans 24 hours in a diesel.

[GTO]

have taken my own Accord at around 160mph with stock suspension and just a tire change, this was around Watkins Glen, it was among the most neutral FWD cars.

Dude, 160MPH in an Accord! Either that was severely downhill or its a major speedo error. 160 mph is approximately 260 kph and that is NOT possible on a stock (unmodified) V6 Accord. No ways.

Obviously our definitions of "stability" differ as I have not found the Accord to be "rock stable" (as you put it) at 200 kph. Acceptable yes, but certainly not rock stable. You have to understand that the Accord was not built for high-speed cruising or the Auto Bahn. In fact, its not even sold in Europe but was designed primarily for American freeways.

Unfortunately, there is no statistic on measuring stability buttttttttttttttttt there is one for gauging handling. And that is a track test!! In one of the few magazine road-tests that I actually appreciated, the Overdrive saloon test rankings were:

1. Skoda RS
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Honda Accord

Mind you, this wasnt just a regular test by silly journalists, but the best Indian drivers (including N.Leelakrishnan, Naren Kumar, Hari Singh and Karun Chandhok) were ripping the cars around the track.

The RS was a whopping 3 seconds faster than the Accord with distinctly superior handling, steering and braking capabilities. The rally drivers complained of "the soft suspension of the Accord" and " a heavy rear end" which lead to compromised handling.

The max G's recorded by the Octavia RS was 1.XX while the Accord managed a 0.9x. Among others, even the Ford Ikon bettered the 0.9x figure of the Honda Accord. Its pretty clear which is the better handler of the two and any further discussions on that will be meaningless.

I can't imagine how a sludge bucket 4 cylinder turbo from econo car manufacturer VW who gets caught in ************ scams prevails in terms of performance over a silky smooth V6, wonders will never cease in India.

For starters : Because it is faster!!! I dont see any wonder in that :-)

I understand that you own an Accord and will defend it. But what I dont understand is why we have to call another car manufacturer names just to get our point through. I own neither the Accord nor the RS and love both of them (and their engines). For the record, I have voted for the Accord in this poll. Both are remarkable machines with equally great engines. But for purely enthusiastic driving, the RS scores any day and any time.

[shuvd]

I have driven both the Accord(2.4) and the 1.8T Rider extensively here in India. The econo east European overshadows the smooth Jap in driving appeal. I have nothing against the Honda. In fact, we were looking at the Accord 2.4 as a possible replacement. But, in sheer driving pleasure, the 2.4 is no match for the 1.8Turbo. And, the comparison was between a 2.4 and the 1.8. Where did the V6 come into the picture?

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Gurkha, I have not heard of engine problems in Indian Skoda's. Some of my relatives own Octavias. They have had trouble with rattling rear door, and also regular service is too expensive(Mobil 1 oil for 7000)
But on the problem front its pretty okay.
I read about a guy who was asked 44000 for an alternator and then proceeded ahead to purchase same alternator from outside market for 18000. Skoda service center refused to fit it for him, and then he raised a stink to Skoda India long with ACI, and then the service center relented.
But then none of them have run beyond 100,000kms. Since most people dispose of cars here after 150,000kms and engine overhaul after 150,000kms is considered normal in India, I doubt people would care about sludge after 100,000kms or run.

So I guess the lawsuits running in US, as well as the myriads of complaints against this engine at the forum I posted as well as the other forum are all a sham to give VW negative publicity, the engine sludges before 100,000km and only those who are technically aware would be able to determine that. So far, I have seen quite a few moderate mileage Skodas here puffing blue smoke or consuming oil, guess thats normal. One of the reasons Skoda and VW don't sell in land of cars US of A is because of its reputation, from Audi to VW, people are wary, they have really no love lost for Japanese cars, its only that they see the VW offering lower value and poor long term reliability, now if you supersede a reputable publication like CR, then I guess there is nothing apparent in this thread apart from sheer bias, no amount of logic would convince otherwise.

Now the point of this conversation, it was my understanding that I was free to post about my personal opinion on the Skoda versus Honda, guess I did a huge mistake in rattling the cages of many here, right away, I was challenged by someone who claims to have voted for Honda, cars like pulcrhitude are personal, subjective opinions, sometimes passion gets better of sense, however, its always better to see the general trend in a more global sense rather than be confined to one particular region. You like Euro re-badged trash like Skoda, mighty fine with me, just don't try and change my mind unless you can show me sales figure or ratings from reputed sources, not nefarious unknowns.

To Busa,

Honda F-1 is truly a halfhearted effort and the team has been sabotaged as well as poorly handled by BAR, it was Honda's ill judgement to have selected BAR as a team, there is nothing wrong with the Honda engine, its supposed to be a BHP monster severely hampered by a poor chassis and equally poor team.

To discredit history is ridiculous, Honda with Senna and Proust took 13 poles out of 15, no team ever dominated F-1 or for that matter other forms of motorsport including 2 wheeled as Honda has and will do so for future. Are you aware of VW/AUDI/Porsche's record in Indy or F-1, they were a veritable joke, German technology notwithstanding.

[Rtech]

So Gurkha, do you buy all your cars after checking the sales charts in the US of A?

Neat!

I think you're missing the whole point to this thread!

[BUSA]

there is nothing apparent in this thread apart from sheer bias

That is quite apparent here

1997 Trax Gurkha
1996 VFJ Jonga
1995 Accord V6
1995 Honda RC 45

My request is just drive a Octavia RS and you would know what some people are trying to point across over here, till then lets not waste time and bytes on this thread.

[drifter]

But how many here have driven the Accord V6 and the RS back to back. We cant really judge them untill they are driven back to back.

Drifter

[doctorque]

will try and make it simple
more chauffer and less self drive - Accord V6
Less Chauffer and more self Drive - RS

[sabret00the]

Definitely skoda as its a much better built car...but Accord has the class and comfort

[GTO]

You like Euro re-badged trash like Skoda, mighty fine with me, just don't try and change my mind unless you can show me sales figure or ratings from reputed sources, not nefarious unknowns.

Gurkha, I am not trying to change your mind at all. Just stating facts here...thats all! Like I said, lets talk about the cars only. If you want to name-call other brands / cars, thats an argument going nowhere. Neither is this discussion about sales figures. If we bought cars purely on what sells best in the USA, lets line up to put our deposits down on F150 trucks.

I have already stated facts and hard numbers in my previous post which clearly indicates that the RS is the better handler. And the car for outright performance driving of the two.