[Prowler]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Pray tell us sir, who are these reckless people who have brought the nation to its knees? And how are BHPians being irresponsible by stating their opinions (which they are fully entitled to do) about a rule that directly affects their lives?

Madras has already implemented this 2 km enforcement and we are practically under house arrest. I need to buy anti-hypertensive which is not available in my area. I had to drive to Mylapore which is about 6 km away. I had a tough time avoiding a police checkpost. Now I have to wait for the end of lockdown to source my medicine.
If a cop has to decide who can go where, Sathankulam (tuticorin)custodial deaths will become the norm. Mumbai police surely is not as bad as TN police. But this sort of haggling with the public will make them another source of carriers - if infected.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

This is going to be an enforcement nightmare. The cops pretty much have to stop every vehicle on the road and have a conversation to ascertain compliance or non-compliance.

Mohan, the ridiculousness of some arguments is beyond responding I fear. The reality is that the unlocking of the economy by the government and the police directive are at conflict.

Here are some more illustrations:

1. Basically, government has allowed industries to resume manufacturing (say Auto industry). They have allowed auto dealers to open in Mumbai. They have allowed a person to commute to office. Private vehicles are the safest way to commute today. But in theory, if you want to go to a dealership to "buy a vehicle" to "commute to office" I'm guessing the dealership needs to be within 2 kms.

2. I need a routine dental checkup which is already 4 months overdue. This is not a medical emergency. But I need to find a dentist within a "2 km" radius. Also, the dentist, who is ALLOWED to open his clinic, must only find patients within 2 kms of his clinic for them to safely visit him.

3. I need my vehicle to be serviced to use it to go to work. My service station is 6 kms away. Is this essential movement.

Incidentally what the police are saying contradicts the MH guidelines that allowed "unrestricted" movement. The idiocy of the measures are beyond explaining. We need to ensure strict enforcement of "safety protocols". Not lock people up till 2021 till the country goes back into 2021. If beaches are being crowded, then police places like beaches or take similar measures for people loitering about.

And to answer Mr. Scorpion from Coimbatore: yes it is not possible to buy everything I need next to my house, even though it is in South Mumbai. And my house is surrounded by other containment zones not to mention open garbage dumps. If I want to run to maintain high immunity and my health intact, it is actually safer for me to drive in my car 6 kms away to worli sea face and run there ensuring social distancing on broader promenades. We don't live in Europe or the US where every neighbourhood has a usable public park within a 2 km vicinity. Hopefully you don't endorse the policing standards that TN has recently displayed.

[Nalin1]

The virus is on top of us!. There is nothing we can do to get on top of the virus!.

The moment we accept this above reality, we will stop all these below measures.

Complete lockdown, partial lockdown, movement within 2 kms radius, night curfew, Sunday curfew, 33% staff at work etc.

The cases will increase as the virus is all over the planet !. Our authorities do not have to prove everyday that they are taking some kind of measures.

Of course, that does not mean that we completely forget about the three safety precautions of physical distancing (at least trying our best to maintain), washing hands and wearing masks. These are mandatory until the post Covid era begins (either with a vaccine or the virus just runs out of energy!).

The last two precautions are definitely easier to follow than the first one.

[Mi10]

Cant fathom what you guys are cribbing about ! Everything is a news till it strikes your near and dear ! The Govt decision is not an independent party decision! It is taken after consultations with Top Doctors, Health Experts and highest Medical Research fraternity available in India. Calling that move stupid, means you have better ideas ? Really ?
Trust me, everything will change upside down if something happens to our family or friends. All this tag of 'stupid' / 'mindless' move would then be applicable to you and your decisions only!

Chennai is under this 2 km Lockdown rule since Jun 19. For the first 3 days the amount of vehicles impounded would make you wonder if this is even a 'Lockdown' ! For all of us our needs are paramount, even if it is as simple as visiting Parents every week or simple walking every morning. All of us can come up with our own justification to prove that what we do is Safest or Safer than doing XYZ !

Don't we have greatest respect to our Armed Forces. Do you know the most intriguing aspect in life of a soldier ? Its the Duty to Follow Orders. No Questions, No Critics, No Comments, Just do what you are told ! While lot of us cant serve the Army, but we all can take a leaf our of their book for once and oblige by what the govt says. Hardships is there for all, but people sitting in their rooms and debating on this thread (including me) are a privileged lot when you compare people who have lost lives and livelihood because of this Pandemic !

[blackwasp]

This is what's happening in Mumbai right now:

https://youtu.be/MmkfNRzZ188

https://youtu.be/UVrie23sQow

Source: Whatsapp Forward

[riteshritesh]

Originally Posted by Mi10

Cant fathom what you guys are cribbing about !

I suppose we are cribbing about the Government regulation of allowing people to attend offices and the Police implementation of a 2 km radius rule, which are contradictory (In cases of drop offs by family, etc etc).
Yes, I have a better suggestion. Lockdown eveything and make people sit inside their houses indefinitely. If the same isn't possible, then no point in implementing haphazard methods like the one in topic. Inbetween is not possible. I am a Service Provider related to Shipping Services. During the initial Lockdown, once the Ports started getting congested, we were notified as Essentials, however the amount of grief Police gave our staff who were traveling is unbelievable. The ground level Police is clueless( used a better word for something unparliamentary ) and are unfit for any sort of reasoning. It is best they are not given authority and power to do anything in any walk of life.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by akshatmangal

Criticizing the Mumbai police is no solution..

Originally Posted by VVN

Why should the cops put themselves at risk when some people have pure and utter disregard for others lives? .

Sirs,

No one is blaming the cops. At least, I am not. They are only enforcing the rule that is thrust on them to enforce.

Ironically though, the life of cops has become N times harder because of this rule. Now, they have to stand in the hot sun and stop every vehicle to check validity of the trip. And yes, there will be people who will need to travel beyond 2 kms for what they need in their lives.

But, let us talk about the real issue here which is that people like us** are demanding a lockdown for our safety. We use phrases such as, "for everyone's safety". But, in reality, we are demanding it for our own safety ONLY. I am willing to bet my last paisa that no one demanding a lockdown is interested in anyone else's safety other than their own and that of their families.

So, let us get this straight. People are free to lock themselves in. No one is forcing anyone to come out. But, to expect others to be locked down and to sacrifice their lives and livelihoods for someone else's safety. Well, that is simply fascist.

My responsibility starts and ends with my family. I can and should take precautions to ensure my safety and the safety of my family. But, I will never expect others to change their lives or sacrifice their incomes so that I can feel safe. That is unconscionable to me.

Corona is not something that anyone came up with and infected others with on purpose. Corona is a natural calamity like any other. No one is liable for it. But, a lockdown is NOT a natural calamity. It has been imposed by us** on people who would have never chosen it on their own accord. In any case, a lockdown of a couple of weeks or even a month is fine. But, to impose lockdown after lockdown on a country of 1.3 billion people with entrenched economic inequality and then to expect that everyone will coolly be able to wait out the pandemic indefinitely; well that is simply foolish and irresponsible.

Corona is not the only affliction in this country. Poverty, starvation and sheer despondency due to lack of opportunity are bigger issues. I request you to read these links if you have the time -

• https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...tuXWiUEiI.html
  
  
• https://www.aei.org/op-eds/the-coron...-the-lockdown/
  
  
• https://thewire.in/rights/migrant-wo...ockdown-deaths
  
  
• https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/75519279.cms
  
  
• https://indianexpress.com/article/in...tates-6412475/

God knows what people are going through right now.

Originally Posted by Mi10

..Don't we have greatest respect to our Armed Forces. Do you know the most intriguing aspect in life of a soldier ?

It is interesting that you quote the army. I am just really glad that no one I know from the pro-lockdown group is defending our country. If they were, we would be teaching Mandarin and Urdu in our schools now.

Our soldiers choose 100% probability of death to protect us. I would say that we do not deserve them at all. We are not willing to accept a less than 3% risk profile to help our countrymen get back to their livelihoods. The amount of fear out there is utterly shameful.

Just for some perspective. Roughly 26000 people die in India every day. In 3 months, that computes to 23,40,000. That is roughly 23.5 lacs. Out of that 15000 are COVID deaths. That is 0.6% of all deaths is COVID. So 99.4% people died of other things.

So what should we be afraid of exactly? Covid or the other N things that can kill us? More importantly, is there anything at all in the world of which we can remain unafraid?

Might as well stop driving and drinking and shopping (there are N carcinogens in the daily products that we buy and use).

Incidentally, here is a story about a young family that killed itself because of lack of economic opportunity due to the lockdown. During a discussion on whatsapp, a pro-lockdown person actually blamed the man in this story instead of blaming the circumstance. The justification given was that everyone without jobs is not committing suicide. So, this guy must have been mentally ill for sure. That was the reasoning.

No one bothered to think about the fact that not everyone has the same amount of money or the same amount of need. And not for one second was there any pause on the fact that this gentleman chose to end his life and his entire family's life. Would anyone do that on a whim?

By the logic provided by the pro-lockdown guys, our migrants should have taken a cue from the army and braved hunger for months together while staying in their 10 sqft tenements. After all, they too must have been mentally ill to have chosen to walk thousands of kilometers in the blazing sun, right?

_____________________________


As I said in the other thread, it is time that the government worked on war footing to get information from employers (and pension institutions) on jobs that can be done from home. With this information, the government needs to come up with a differential taxation system that levies 100% more tax on everyone who is earning money sitting at home while demanding lockdowns that push those without WFH jobs into poverty and despondency. The additional revenues should be set aside to pay people who are unable to work and earn money for their families because their jobs require them to venture out. This is the only way to send a message to the pro-lockdown group about how hard it is for the people without WFH jobs.

P. S.

** I used the word "us" so as to not sound accusatory. In reality, I should not have included myself in that sentence as I am not asking for a lockdown at all. I never have.

[vivek95]

Yes, I second the post above. During first lockdown 1.0, some of the housekeeper staff of my hospital, despite flashing valid ID card, were refused to board the bus by BEST Mumbai conductors, stating the reason that they do not work in Govt hospitals and only Govt. healthcare workers are allowed to travel in their buses. Eventually fed up with the daily harassment, some of them have stopped coming altogether resulting in overburdened work on the existing staff. I am a Doctor who drives my own car to hospital daily, so never faced any hurdle, but what about so many others in the essential services sector who depend on buses, autos etc ??

Most of us know such illogical rules will translate into even more illogical implementation at the ground level and hence we are cribbing about it.

[VVN]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Sirs,

No one is blaming the cops. At least, I am not. They are only enforcing the rule that is thrust on them to enforce.
** I used the word "us" so as to not sound accusatory. In reality, I should not have included myself in that sentence as I am not asking for a lockdown at all. I never have.

Agreed with your POV Mohansrides. However, the rule is applicable only for people who stroll and not for ones who have genuine reasons to travel - Office, emergencies and it is even exempt for people who want to ferry family members to and fro their workplace (with valid IDs). This is strictly targeted to people who move from say Colaba to Bandra or Andheri to Worli in groups thereby defeating the purpose of social distancing. I agree we are all frustrated with the lockdown and I myself am speaking to a therapist regularly because being inside for 4 months now has started affecting the mood and productivity. Go for a walk, get some fresh air but do it within 2 Kms is what the norm says. Worli sea face, Juhu beach, bandstand, highways and amazing drives are still going to be here when the situation eases.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by VVN

..Worli sea face, Juhu beach, bandstand, highways and amazing drives are still going to be here when the situation eases.

Sir,

With the prevalent mood, the situation is never easing. This virus is here to stay. For decades. How long are we going to socially distance?

9 of my colleagues lost their jobs on March 25th. That was day 1 of lockdown 1.0. Then 7 more people I know lost their jobs. No visibility on when they will find work. These are real families with bills to pay and seniors and special needs children to take care of. The misery being piled on them is unimaginable.

I paid my maid until this month. I will maybe pay her for one more month. After that I cannot afford to pay her for not working. I have the responsibility to think about finances for my own family first. So, unless my society allows maids to come and work, my maid is going to lose her job and her money indefinitely. I can't imagine what that must be like for her. I want to help her. But, I can't beyond a point.

We need to get out of this fear psychosis. Else, we are finished. And at the end of it, Corona would have killed only a very very small portion of our 1.3 billion population. The rest would have died due to the circumstances created by the fear of Corona.

[fiestarry]

The Mah Govt is caught between a rock and a hard place ! Damned if they do, damned if they don't !
The same people who are beside themselves in anger at the spiralling Covid numbers are also bristling with indignation at the imposition of any rule !
It is good to know that some members are in support of the MH administration.
In the last couple of weeks I have observed that most people have discarded all safe practices; vada pav, chai being consumed by groups of people on the road sides, gatherings on the bylanes etc.

[RM Motorsports]

I didn't know this new RULE till today morning. And I feel its totally bullshit. Every now and then some or another silly / stupid rules are put up.

I stay at Kings Circle, Matunga. Last evening I went to meet a close friend to Juhu after almost 4 months. I left his place around 10 pm. From Juhu to Matunga there was absolutely no checking at all. There was police barricades at 2 places but I did not see any cops around.

I have WFH usually but today I went to office for some urgent work. I returned in hour and half. My office is in Chembur. There was naka bandi on the way to Chembur. I was let by without any questioning. Almost all private cars were just let by. Cops were only stopping bikers / rick / taxis. While returning on opposite side there were police barricades but absolutely no checking at all. But towards going to Chembur a long traffic jam had build up. People with genuine emergencies are now unnecessarily caught up in these traffic jams due to this naka bandis.

I have been avoiding going out since lockdown began. Now when it was declared that long commutes are allowed since beginning on June, only Sunday early morning I go for a drive as I missed driving a lot. My 2 road trips got cancelled because of this virus thing. Also I got a new car so I missed driving all the more. I take following route -

Matunga - Shivaji Park - Sea Face - Peddar Rd - Marine drive, Colaba - VT - Eastern Freeway - Wadala - Matunga.

Its just a slow / peaceful drive with my favorite music. Thats it. I don't even step out of the car. It's only thing thing I have been enjoying, that too just once a week when half of the city is still sleeping. With this stupid 2 km rule, means I cannot go anywhere??

I am not endangering anyone's life. I am not going in public. Its just myself enjoying that 45 min drive.
What wrong have I done going for a peaceful drive once a week and getting my car impounded?

Whole world knows the dangers of this virus and its upto each individual to take care of themselves. Take proper precautions and venture out only if necessary or if there is no threat.

Also I am still wondering where will all the impounded vehicles kept. And all these impounded vehicles become easy target for car thieves, as they usually get dumped in some unguarded place.

And waiting for another silly RULE to come up in a fortnight

[Axe77]

Incidentally, the below circular was released TODAY (dated 29 June). 2000 vehicles were impounded yesterday (28th June). If this is correct they had no business impounding vehicles yesterday enforcing a 2 km rule which did not exist until today.

This circular is a categorical backtracking of the rule which was prevalent in Mumbai until yesterday which specifically permitted free movement within MMR region without linking it to office commute or medical emergency as claimed by cops.

If you are making such a big policy change and one that is a further restriction after a long time of gradual easing, then first release the circular, communicate it widely and suitably and then enforce it.

Even if I keep my personal opinion of the lunacy of the restriction aside, the sequence of events since yesterday is plain harassment.



.

[ValarMorghulis]

Maharashtra govt extends lockdown till 31 July

All private offices can operate with up to 10% strength and govt offices with up to 15% strength
Details here

[RM Motorsports]

Massive traffic snarls were reported in several parts of Mumbai on Monday, some of them as result of nakabandis put up by the police. Dahisar check-naka and Mulund toll naka were choc-a-bloc with vehicles. Thousands of vehicles were impounded in the nakabandis, some of which were being supervised personally by IPS officers.

Motorists complained that some of them were pulled up even when they were going to office or within 2kms from home for buying groceries.

Just finding new ways to make people SUFFER. Since bars / restaurants / pubs are shut, drink-n-drive INCOME has drastically reduced. This is now the new source of INCOME.

Source - TOI

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/76688984.cms