[M.Dua]

Dear Fellow Car Lovers, This is my first thread. I personally think I would be able to get the best clarity here on the painful dilemma i am in to sell my car or retain it.

So the deal is I own a Volvo S60 2015 in Delhi and i love her to the bits and I intend to own her as long as possible (more like forever) but since its a Diesel Vehicle the Government is making it very difficult to retain it.

However, there is not much clarity on what is going to happen? I see Diesel cars in Delhi plying on road which are more than 10 years old but no one really has the clarity.

1. NGT says any Delhi registered Diesel vehicle more than 10 yo has to be Scrapped.
2. now the new NGT rules says pay Green Tax + Re registration charges + Pollution Certification etc etc and ply the car on road (not sure if applicable to Delhi).

Does anyone has any clarity on this subject? What will happen if someone from another state, following the Vehicle Scrappage policy re registered his Diesel vehicle and is driving in Delhi?

Thanks in Advance !!

[anjan_c2007]

The budget speech of our FM has goodies for the Delhi and NCR private car owners. This will take effect only after the Finance Bill is passed by the Parliament. The Parliamentary laws overrule any other rule or law, even by any court including the Apex Court. In a democracy, the Parliament is the fountain of all laws and rules supreme.

Coming back to the topic, the NGT judgement for Delhi and NCR for private cars will hence be nullified. The FM specifically said during her speech that private cars will have a life of 20 years all over India, including Delhi and the NCR. Thereafter, fitness will be through automated fitness tests in licensed centres, mostly owned privately. Green Tax will be levied as decided by the state governments. The validity of the fitness test will be for 5 years and thereafter it has to be again renewed. Also Green tax will be payable every five years. It simply means 20 +5+5+5 years of fitness, "n" times till the car is fit. This is in contrast to the earlier 15+5+5+5, "n" times all over India, other than Delhi and the NCR. For Delhi and NCR it was 10 + NIL (diesels) and 15 + NIL (petrols).

Hence please wait for the Finance Bill to be passed by the Parliament sometime around April 2021 and the fitness laws will have to be amended.

[lawdgawd]

What we heard is the Budget Speech

This is the relevant para from the speech. I think this is it, but maybe I am wrong.

Scrapping Policy

36. We are separately announcing a voluntary vehicle scrapping policy, to phase out old and unfit vehicles. This will help in encouraging fuel efficient, environment friendly vehicles, thereby reducing vehicular pollution and oil import bill. Vehicles would undergo fitness tests in automated fitness centres after 20 years in case of personal vehicles, and
after 15 years in case of commercial vehicles. Details of the scheme will be
separately shared by the Ministry.

What this means is, we have to wait for the voluntary vehicle scrapping policy. Only that will clarify exactly what will be done. It may decide to keep 20 years for personal vehicles pan-India, or decide that Delhi NCR requires an exception and will continue following the NGT orders. We have to wait and see.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Going by this India Today Article, Even Delhi-NCR cars will be able to ply once the new policy comes into play. I consider India Today to be a reliable source, but I would still like to wait and watch to see what actually happens. Don’t want to sound pessimistic, but you never know, pressure from the car maker lobby may just make them change their minds. Fingers crossed.

Quoting the relevant bits:

According to sources retaining 20 year old vehicles or more will come at a cost. The government we hear is going to impose a ‘Green Tax’. The tax will vary according to areas. So a person renewing a 20 year old car in Delhi NCR which is more polluted in general will probably have to pay more Green Tax as compared to someone in renewing a similar car in say Coimbatore for example. Apart from the Green Tax owners will have to pay for the fitness test as well. However all cars deemed fit will be free to ply across the country including Delhi NCR.

Imagine the plight of those who let go of their well kept cars just because of this rule! I know some people who had really well maintained old cars. Some of these looked showroom fresh but had to be scrapped. I genuinely feel bad for them. I wish we could have some stability WRT policies.


https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www.i...936-2021-02-01

[MSC]

The extension of cars shelf life from 15 years to 20 years will also cause a bump in RTO charges for a new car as our government will definitely not be in mood for letting this golden opportunity to get some more cash from the hapless customer.
Also, all news channels kept shouting that car prices may go down once the recycling of car components like steel rubber etc is started. But chances of that happening are too bleak. It's usually rare that cost reduction bennefit is transferred completely to customer.

[M.Dua]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

The budget speech of our FM has goodies for the Delhi and NCR private car owners.
======
Hence please wait for the Finance Bill to be passed by the Parliament sometime around April 2021 and the fitness laws will have to be amended.

Thanks much for your thoughts. One query though that the law existed earlier also (Motors Vehicles Act) laying rules to ply cars in India and the NGT & Supreme Court had then also applied restrictions on use in Delhi. My honest fear is that there might be a ruling again after this law. Having said that, the law promises to scrap genuine polluting vehicle and that coupled with Delhi Government's initiative to keep personal vehicles out of the restriction ambit might help.

Imagine the plight of those who let go of their well kept cars just because of this rule! I know some people who had really well maintained old cars. Some of these looked showroom fresh but had to be scrapped. I genuinely feel bad for them. I wish we could have some stability WRT policies.

I sold my mint condition no issues giving 6 yo Verna SX Crdi for the same reason at a price i wont part with her at all. No one really craps them, these are sold in a different state, my car per se got registered in Punjab. I know friends who have 7 series/A6/Volvos with 40-50K Odometer in 8-9 years life cycle and are mint condition cars for next 10 years at least.

The extension of cars shelf life from 15 years to 20 years will also cause a bump in RTO charges for a new car as our government will definitely not be in mood for letting this golden opportunity to get some more cash from the hapless customer.
Also, all news channels kept shouting that car prices may go down once the recycling of car components like steel rubber etc is started. But chances of that happening are too bleak. It's usually rare that cost reduction benefit is transferred completely to customer.

Car industry in India has never been customer considerate, it has always been government and industry favouring. There as some benefits for electric vehicles right now, having said that there are no considerable options in market right now. TATA might just take a leap on this as Nexon EV looks promising and will develop as a good product in a few years after the initial niggles are resolved.

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Simple and clear sir no matter how anyone interprets the news the rule of law for dehi ncr will stay irrespective of this.
10 years cap on diesel
15 year cap on petrol

This is the rule of law laid down by the Supreme court re affirming the NGT ruling. Lok sabha cannot and does not have the legal sanctity to circumvent this

[VineetG]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild

This is the rule of law laid down by the Supreme court re affirming the NGT ruling. Lok sabha cannot and does not have the legal sanctity to circumvent this

Beg to differ on the above. In the Vodafone Tax case, the Supreme court had ruled in favor of Vodafone, but then the government came out with the retrospective tax amendment to nullify the Supreme court order.

Also, refer to the famous Shah Bano case.

Having said that, the government will still have to give clarity on the applicability of the 20 year rule for Delhi NCR

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by VineetG

Beg to differ on the above. In the Vodafone Tax case, the Supreme court had ruled in favor of Vodafone, but then the government came out with the retrospective tax amendment to nullify the Supreme court order.

Also, refer to the famous Shah Bano case.

Having said that, the government will still have to give clarity on the applicability of the 20 year rule for Delhi NCR

Dear sir you are comparing apples to oranges , if the central govt had the powers to repeal the NGT orders then the would not have filed a SLP in the sc against it, and straightaway amended the law in the lok sabha. The govt will not give clarity on the 20 year rule its understood that it wont be applicable to delhi ncr. I would loved to be proved wrong but i am 99.9% sure it wont happen!

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by M.Dua

Thanks much for your thoughts. One query though that the law existed earlier also (Motors Vehicles Act) laying rules to ply cars in India and the NGT & Supreme Court had then also applied restrictions on use in Delhi. My honest fear is that there might be a ruling again after this law. Having said that, the law promises to scrap genuine polluting vehicle and that coupled with Delhi Government's initiative to keep personal vehicles out of the restriction ambit might help.

I sold my mint condition no issues giving 6 yo Verna SX Crdi for the same reason at a price i wont part with her at all. No one really craps them, these are sold in a different state, my car per se got registered in Punjab. I know friends who have 7 series/A6/Volvos with 40-50K Odometer in 8-9 years life cycle and are mint condition cars for next 10 years at least.

Welcome. You have rightly pointed out that previously also there was a law viz. Section 59 "Power to fix age limit of a motor vehicle", in the Motor Vehicles Act 1988, that the court judgments starting with the NGT Principal Bench, have overruled for Delhi and the NCR.

59. Power to fix the age limit of motor vehicle.—
(1) The Central Government may, having regard to the public safety, convenience and objects of this Act, by notification in the Official Gazette, specify the life of a motor vehicle reckoned from the date of its manufacture, after the expiry of which the motor vehicle shall not be deemed to comply with the requirements of this Act and the rules made thereunder: Provided that the Central Government may specify different ages for different classes or different types of motor vehicles.
(2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1), the Central Government may, having regard to the purpose of a motor vehicle, such as, display or use for the purposes of a demonstration in any exhibition, use for the purposes of technical research or taking part in a vintage car rally, by notification in the Official Gazette, exempt, by a general or special order, subject to such conditions as may be specified in such notification, any class or type of motor vehicle from the operation of sub-section (1) for the purpose to be stated in the notification.
(3) Notwithstanding anything contained in section 56, no prescribed authority or authorized testing station shall grant a certificate of fitness to a motor vehicle in contravention of the provisions of any notification issued under sub-section (1).

The applicants in this petition had invoked the Article 21 of the Indian Constitution viz. "Right to life", wherein for the pollution, smog and AQI, automobiles were solely blamed as they allegedly created grave pulmonary health risks and resulting lung diseases.

Sadly, the court believed and went by assertions of the applicants (not sure of the role of the automobile lobby here). Defence was only by the government who were on notice in this matter. And we know how strongly they defend ! Ultimately, Article 21 was given precedence by the court over the Central government's power to fix the age limit of a motor vehicle viz Sec 59 of the MV Act. And hence the judgment that favoured de-registration of the older private motor vehicles in Delhi and the NCR.

Had the defence been through court intervention in this civil suit by lawyers representing many private motor vehicle owners, things would have been somewhat different. Blame could have been also put on generators, stubble burning, construction and other pollution causing activities. The environment ministry could have been added with the court's order to do so. They could have been directed to conduct environment impact assessment studies of the region and report within a fixed time limit. Till then, the judgment could have been withheld by the court.

It is evident that no accredited laboratory data or environmental impact assessment report for Delhi and NCR were considered to pinpoint percentage wise contribution of several causative factors that had worsened the AQI of the region then. And old cars are the softest targets to banish always.

Even today, after the disappearance of old private vehicles, the smog and AQI of Delhi and NCR for the winters of 2019-20 and 2020-21 were the worst ever in history !

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild

Simple and clear sir no matter how anyone interprets the news the rule of law for dehi ncr will stay irrespective of this.
10 years cap on diesel
15 year cap on petrol

What you said is 100% true. The announcement of the vehicle scrapping policy was a ray of hope for those who had old cars in Delhi, but today, it is safe to say that ALL HOPE IS LOST. Read this in today’s Times of India. Clearly stated that the new policy is not going to be implemented here in Delhi as we already have a more stringent framework in place.

If your car has crossed the expiry date (10 years for diesel, 15 years for petrol) : Scrap it and forget about it.

If your car still has a valid RC: Get it transferred out of Delhi-NCR ASAP.

The new policy wouldn’t apply in the capital as there already exist stringent rules against plying of old vehicles to tackle air pollution.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/80727515.cms

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

What you said is 100% true. The announcement of the vehicle scrapping policy was a ray of hope for those who had old cars in Delhi, but today, it is safe to say that ALL HOPE IS LOST. Read this in today’s Times of India. Clearly stated that the new policy is not going to be implemented here in Delhi as we already have a more stringent framework in place.

That's the Delhi state government's Transport Department deciding not to allow old private vehicles to ply in Delhi. A very retrograde development.

Since ages the favourite whipping boy of the policy makers have been the private car owners. The Central Excise and State Excise would be raised in almost every Central/ State budget since decades.

Now without identifying the real culprits that cause pollution the private car owner is again cornered. Just check the smog and AQI for the winters of 2019-20 and 2020-21 in Delhi and the NCR. These were the worst in history, despite the older cars going off the roads.

A very sorry state of affairs.

[Gurgaon_lyon]

As others have also pointed out, new motor vehicle law won't help NCR people, but it's Wrong to say that it's not applicable. Both laws would be applicable simultaneously but as your RC is not valid under ngt direction so motor vehicle law won't be able to help you.

Regarding people complaining about winter aqi.. it's about aqi all year round. Yes in winter it's more due to peddy burning but cars are all year round culprit.. I honestly miss the lockdown period in Delhi..

[sammyboy]

Can anyone clarify if the 10 year diesel ban extends only to Delhi NCR registered vehicles or any privately owned diesel vehicle irrespective of its state of registration but running or even passing through the NCR? That is something I am still very confused about.

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by sammyboy

Can anyone clarify if the 10 year diesel ban extends only to Delhi NCR registered vehicles or any privately owned diesel vehicle irrespective of its state of registration but running or even passing through the NCR? That is something I am still very confused about.

Any vehicle plying on Delhi NCR roads which includes Noida, Gurgugram, fardiabad,ghaziabad irrespective of the state registeration it could be a car from any state, cannot ply if its older then 10years for a diesel car, 15 years for a petrol car.
Hope that helps