[hell_rider]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

At the risk of , I will repeat myself. I fail to see how the Palio is a 'world-class' car seeing as how it is only sold to the third-world. Unless you meant third-world-class car. The Swift, the Corsa Sail, the Getz, now those are truly world-class cars.

have to disagree with you there. The Swift sold in India is definitely not world class. We get the one without the new generation engine and without the split rear seat. Definitely a "third-world version".

Not too sure about the Corsa Sail either.

However, I think all the three new entrants to the excise-cutting club, the Palio Stile 1.1, the Chevy UVA and the Getz Prime 1.1 and oh, the Indica 1.2 Xeta, are huge compromises IMHO, if you go merely by engine spec.

That factor aside, IMO, I believe all with the exception of the Xeta are more or less in the same ballpark when it comes to build quality, where the Xeta does lag.

Don't see why the Palio needs to be singled out here.

Additionally, a pertinent point has been made by a fellow member earlier. All of these cars may appeal to the buyer who has a very short running, wants decent build quality and looks and for whom zip-blast-boom performance is not a priority. So it can be said that these cars do fulfil the needs of a segment.

Examples IMO,
Elderly uncle / aunt who want to putter around in relative comfort / space.
Wifey types who need a car for the mandatory supermarket suburban run / drop kids at school run.
Start-up entrepreneur who has her / his small office close by and wants something affordable but looks decent as well.

For any of the above, any of these cars are quite all-right.

[GTO]

LO V1p3r, hit the nail right on the head. I had commented recently in the original Palio Stile thread that it does a 0 - 100 in 20.xx seconds! Man, thats slower than an Indica Turbo. Why the heck would anyone want to buy a hatch that is not the cheapest, and yet is the slowest. Takes the longest to brake. And isnt exactly class-leading when it comes to fuel-efficiency.

There are just so many options in the hatchback market that such a product doesnt have a right to exist. The 1.2 was sluggish by itself and the genuis' at Fiat go and make it even slower. Me thinks that the real payrolls of Fiat India come from its competitors . The Stile and the Logan are the damb squibs of 2007!

Just to note that I am not biased against Fiat. I love the Palio 1.6 as much as I hate the Palio 1.1. And I still think that the Petra was a good buy in 2003 / 4 for the value it offered.

[zenx]

Yeah one can only sympathize with Fiat. Again, maybe not....they would've done wonders if they did an Alto with the Uno - the diesel esp was reasonably popular.

[tsk1979]

Is there anything left to wonder here.
You take a wonderful car, with very poor A.S.S. and so so FE
Its safe, its reasonably fast, it can be driven in traffic.
Then you decide that the A.S.S. fiasco was not enough, and you take away most of the other strengths from the car.
Cost cutting?
Well after discounts the Palio 1.2 was cheaper than stile and a better car.
This is actually stupid.
you don't put a 57 horsepower engine in a 1 ton car unless its an amby or a diesel.

[speedzak]

I don't think any sane mind would be able to answer that W H Y ?

This thread made me realise how dumb this car is. Even after reading ACI the reality didn't hit me. Now it does.
So to say, this thread has made my day.

It is shocking how some people defend a very bad product. Ok, I forgot. Love is blind, right.

Would like to see a comparo with the Getz prime 1.1. Huh! I'm already guessing the winner.

[BUSA]

Firstly i was the first to read this thread and i was sure its going to be flooded, less then 12 hours and four pages already.

I think there should be WCOTY - Worst Car of the year and Palio 1.1 and Logan will be having a close battle.

@ Fiat Owners - Stop being biased by saying

Doesn't make sense to compare Palio with spark and Xing which are a class below

Palio is definately in the lower B segment, the upper mid B segment cars which fight with the Swift cant have a Palio, we need a Grand Punto asap and Palio needs to be discontinued, enough of 178 platforms for us, please.

If it is based on engine capacity NHC should only be compared against Lancer and Accent 1.5.

NHC does a 0 - 100 of 13.11 secs and the Vtec 10.6, wheras the SX4 do it 12.6, not much difference aint it, wheras the Santro does it 14.xx secs and the Palio 20.xx I am sure even the NA Indica will out run it in a drag. The Palio comes in the Xing class, and doesnot have the right to fight it out with more class leading cars like UVA, Swift, Getz.

Heck a Corsa is much better then a Palio and GM have enough sense to discontinue it since it had become quite old, when will Fiat realise you cant give us such crappy interiors in a car in 2007.

Please see the Overdrive comparison of Getz, Aveo U-VA and Palio

OD is the most biased mag going around, they right utter crap and all their FE figures are made using bio fuel or the car is put on a slope with engine switched off and running ahead due to gravity, sigh.

[theMAG]

Originally Posted by BUSA

OD is the most biased mag going around

All are. The mag that has the best Holier-Than-Thou PR stance sells more copies per month.

[srishiva]

How does a magazine's credibility matter ? The discussion I guess is on numbers unless someone can disprove the figures given.

[spindoc]

While the Stile (at least the 1.1) is an eminently laughable attempt, the "indian" Swift is not all that world-class too. Sure, it borrows heavily from its international counterpart, but to be world-class it needs some of these (copied from spec sheet of the Aussie Swift).

Safety equipment:
Dual front airbags, dual side airbags, front and rear curtain airbags, ABS with EBD five lap-sash seatbelts, front seatbelt pre-tensioners.

I am sure the fit and finish levels can improve a lot on the Swift too.

[autobalan]

But ACI says this also, it has the best build quality, and ride and handling
it'll live longer than others here, so few people but it for these advantages

[kvish]

FIAT has lost such a big opportunity here and it is evident with the stile's they have sold till date. If a car manufacturer cannot revive the interiors of a car which is already three generations old then they dont deserve any respect. Whether the interiors are good or not are a different question. But they cant keep selling the same stuff for ages and expect people to buy in thousands. And alas they had to get the 1.1 engine that too 8valve one...(in other countries they have a 1L engine which does 0-100 in 15odd seconds...) which makes matters worse. They have goofed up completely!! Earlier the cars were good and absolutely no publicity (only word of mouth) Now they have all fancy ads and a crappy offering.... all this from a company thats being pumped 2000 crores...The heads of FIAT INDIA need to be whipped for this

I wish they have some decent ad campaign for the stile 1.6 sport. Atleast that is a product which "might" find "some" buyers!!
MIGHT=5% chance
SOME= 10s-100s

The way things are going, they may fail with Punto and Linea too....anyway, lets see if TATAs can pour some wisdom into those deaf ears of FIAT folks...

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by srishiva

How does a magazine's credibility matter ? The discussion I guess is on numbers unless someone can disprove the figures given.

there are two types of figures. One are facts, others are adjustable facts.
for example
Car A is 4000mm long. Its a fact. All magazines will say so
Car A does 0-100 in 12 sec. this means our fastest driver can do this in 12 sec. Another mag will do it in 11 sec or 13 sec.
Now comes FE figures. They can vary from 10kmpl in city to 20kmpl in city. If one mag things that a city is Cochin in the day of a multi party kerala bandh they will get 20kmpl.
Another mag may think a city is Delhi with metro construction going on and a truck broken down, and PMs convoy passing through. They will get 5kmpl.
When a mag always tests in a Kerala Bandh, or the opposite scenario, they lose credibility.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

there are two types of figures. One are facts, others are adjustable facts.
for example
Car A is 4000mm long. Its a fact. All magazines will say so
Car A does 0-100 in 12 sec. this means our fastest driver can do this in 12 sec. Another mag will do it in 11 sec or 13 sec.
Now comes FE figures. They can vary from 10kmpl in city to 20kmpl in city. If one mag things that a city is Cochin in the day of a multi party kerala bandh they will get 20kmpl.
Another mag may think a city is Delhi with metro construction going on and a truck broken down, and PMs convoy passing through. They will get 5kmpl.
When a mag always tests in a Kerala Bandh, or the opposite scenario, they lose credibility.

Everyone knows about these quirks. But are there any facts to disprove the numbers was my question. I think 0-100 figures could diverge for max 1 sec and mileage by 1km. AND I am out of this thread.

[deepakhon]

Actually, there is a small article in June issue of ACI where Fiat Chairman Luca has gone ahead and made a veiled comment on car for third world countries. He has stated that Fiat's strategy was wrong in how they built factories in places where there were no buyers. I am very sure he had India in mind when he said that. He made a comment that the next generation Palio (yes, they are planning the next generation around two years from now) will be a truly international product, but tuned to local conditions.

In my opinion, this is how the products should be. They should be international products, but certain things should be local; like choice of interiors, choice of engines, choice of trim levels and finetuning of suspension. With this in mind, I am actually looking forward to their Linea.

Is Palio 1.1 Stile relevant now? To me, it is not. I already feel that my 1.2 NV is sluggish. I really will never buy 1.1 Stile. For that matter, if I am given a chance today, I will not buy any car with 178 platform. These cars are gone past their prime and Fiat will have to move on with their new products. Will I consider Grande Punto or Linea? I will definitely consider them, but, I will look at their merits wrt what is available at the time of my buying while making a decision.

This is what I did when I bought 1.2 NV. At that time, the choices in my budget were very few: M800, Alto, WagonR, Santro, Palio 1.2, Opel Sail 1.4, Indica D and P. When I looked at all these, Palio and Sail made sense to me, b'coz of many reasons. Of them, I shortlisted Palio for my final buy.

To cut it short, Fiat cars made sense about 2-3 years ago (I am talking of cars here, I am not including their ***), but things have moved on. If Fiat can not move up the ladder, they will certainly vanish into obscurity (as if they are doing any great numbers now).

[DCEite]

Honestly speaking, i dont believe in mag figures anyways. Let me tell you an example.
Around 5 years ago, wagonR used to do 0-100 in 15.xx seconds. Which mag it was, i am not sure, but it was one of OD or ACI. Santro ZipPlus 1.1 L used to do 0-100 in 17.xx seconds.
Now about a year later when Xing 1.1 was released. The Santro became faster (mind you the eninge was the same epsilon 1.1 L), and it clocked 0-100 in some 15.xx seconds. The WR was still there at 15.xx.
Notice the descepency. With same engine, Santro Xing became faster than Santro ZipPlus.
Now this was not enough. What happened when Santro Xing was launghed with eRLX engine? Santro clocked 0-100 in some 14 seconds. BUT the big surprise was, the eRLX engine in Santro slowed down the wagonR which now does 0-100 in 17.xx seconds.

Moral of the story: Auto mag figures are a mere eyewash!

That is not to say that they might have done wrong calcs for Stile's figures. But i cant believe them blindly either.

And according to OD and ACI, no other small car except Santro Xing deserves to sell on Indian roads. But see the reality. So many Altos, Indicas, wagonRs and Zens around.