[narayan]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Some of the features available in the new Scorp can be fitted in the after market (steering mounted controls, parking sensors)

Others like rain-sensing wipers. auto headlapms and cruise control.....heck it should'nt take TATA more than a couple of months to incorporate it into the Safari. Suppliers have this stuff ready to ship for a nominal increase in price. Where is the Scorpio going to hide then?

SAFARI'S dust i guess

[overdose14]

And one more thing so called "cruise control". whats the use of cruise control with manual gearbox. its just like speed adjustment on steering wheel as seen on mahindra tractors which sets rpm of engine which comes handy while tilling fields but how come it can be of little use with manual gearbox when you have to brake and change gear after every km or so.

[rajismine]

U know what. Those rain sensors cost a mere Rs7500 and are a straight fit for scorpio and safari. there is a company called tropicool india limited which imports these. I have the quotation from them for Rs 7500. Infact they are the guys who supply parking sensors for scorpio and rear camera for safari.

They have a host of other things too...and trust me all are extremely interesting. The company has its office in Pune...

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Can you substantiate this beyond the Wikipedia entries?

It was way long before Wikipedia was launched. If I remember correctly, I read a road test of the Tata Sierra when they launched it in UK and it was from that article.

[PRADEEP KUMAR]

Folks,
Just a suggestion,can we stop this scorpio bashing,can we stick to discussing the product offering alone.It's becoming repetitive.
Sorry, my intention is not to offend guys!

[m3_07]

Gentlemen,

It would be very nice to have a TD report, now that the cars have been officially launched last friday.

My only compliant on scorpio is that this version should have been in the entry level too, may be w/o cruise control, tyre tronics & other niche gadgets.

The engine & AC is defnitely expected to be better than the safari.

[suman]

Originally Posted by PRADEEP KUMAR

Folks,
Just a suggestion,can we stop this scorpio bashing,can we stick to discussing the product offering alone.It's becoming repetitive.
Sorry, my intention is not to offend guys!

It is the product offering being discussed Pradeep, rather the lack of it. Its not Scorpio bashing per se.....as far as I can see.

And I think its more of disappointment because people have been waiting a long time with some expectations - and it seems that M&M have let the general public down once again

[PRADEEP KUMAR]

Originally Posted by suman

It is the product offering being discussed Pradeep, rather the lack of it. Its not Scorpio bashing per se.....as far as I can see.

And I think its more of disappointment because people have been waiting a long time with some expectations - and it seems that M&M have let the general public down once again

Hi,
True.we should discuss threadbare the features or the lack of it.But time and again it becomes scorpio vs safari vs innova.I thought there is a separate thread for that!

[rkbharat]

Originally Posted by PRADEEP KUMAR

Hi,
True.we should discuss threadbare the features or the lack of it.But time and again it becomes scorpio vs safari vs innova.I thought there is a separate thread for that!

Pardeep, In my opinion, no body is here in the thread just for the fun and time pass. All wants to buy an 11Lacs depreciating asset, and its very obvious to compare it with other similar offerings.

Anyways you are comparing Scorpio fatures with others and not the other way round. And criticizing or bashing a product is also part of product discussion isnt it.

Just me personal thoughts.. Please don't mind

[dadu]

Although AVL designed the engine for both companies, they designed it as per the specifications given to them, so if M&M wanted a lower bhp/torque, so be it.

They must have thought about it and competition, they must have taken a mature decision based on their needs.

But IMO pricing is too high and apart from the engine rest all are gizmos, perhaps they are trying to cover up by providing gizmos than a newer vehicle.

The things they needed to work on apart from the engine (which they have) were the rear seat legroom and stability on high speeds.

Now how many people are aware that the current Scorpio is wider and has got more height than the Safari, I couldnt check the weights as M&M defines GVM whereas Tatas, Kerb weight.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

It appears they do have the same basic engine. It is curious that Mahindra rates Scorpio at 120bhp and 290nm torque and Tata rates Safari at 140bhp and 320nm torque.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by rajismine

there is a company called tropicool india limited which imports these.

They have a host of other things too...and trust me all are extremely interesting. The company has its office in Pune...

Tropicool supplied a whole host of stuff for the 'Limited Edition' Safari (TCIC version) that came with a whole host of stuff from them including the refridgerator.

[mansidea]

Originally Posted by Torqy

You said it right.

Electrically adjustable ORVMs were the LEAST they could do. Shows where SAFETY lies in their priority.

After paying 11 lakhs, you stop the car, get out / slide to the passenger seat, adjust the left side ORVM, get back to driver's seat, get out / slide to the passenger seat AGAIN to re-adjust, get back to driver's seat.......and finally give up, FOLD THE MIRROR and continue driving.

I already do that (except for folding the mirror) with my 6 lakh car.

I fully agree with you. This is a bare minimum expectation out of a big car, even when the small cars offer this. Head lights & wipers with sensors, cruise control with manual box are just frills or just to show off IMHO.

But let's not forget that this is not a new car launched. This is just an engine change & M&M added some frills to it. Still I am disappointed that they detuned it to 120 bhp due to the tranny.

[dockap]

here is a noob td report
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...est-drive.html

[directinjection]

This common engine thing between the Safari and Scorpio is intriguing and I smell something fishy here.

AVL is primarily an engineering consultant that develops engines for clients, usually be reworking on existing engines that clients provide. As usually happens in such arrangements, the Intellectual Property Rights for the final product developed by AVL would go to the client, AVL's work being a commissioned work. How could Tata and Mahindra be separate owners of the same engine design unless there are notable differences between the two?

AVL is not an engine manufacturer and there are no AVL engines in existence that auto makers can simply manufacture under license. So, it's unlikely that Mahindra and Tata are merely license-manufacturing the same engine. A JTD-1.3-like situation is therefore ruled out.

Here's what AVL describes its scope of business as (on its web site):

Development of Powertrain Systems: AVL develops and improves all kinds of powertrain systems and is a competent partner to the engine and automotive industry. In addition AVL develops and markets the simulation methods which are necessary for the development work.

Engine Instrumentation and Test Systems: The products of this business area comprise all the instruments and systems required for engine and vehicle testing.

Now given this scenario, how could the Scorpio and Safari engines be identical? Given the nature of the assignment and the fact that Safari 2.2 and Scorpio 2.2 were being developed at around the same time, I'm sure AVL's contracts with Tata and Mahindra must have incorporated strong confidentiality/non-disclosure obligations on AVL. If AVL has passed on the same design to Tata's rival, wouldn't AVL be guilty of breaching its contract with Tata?

Has AVL done what IDEA did in late nineties with the Palio and Indica - charge separate fees from two independent clients for what was in essence the same work/product. Tata reportedly paid IDEA Rs. 80 crores for designing the Indica which many people described as a re-worked Palio. Of course they were careful to keep the dimensions different!

So, can somebody point out the design differences between the two engines instead of the similarities? This matter sure calls for a deeper investigation.

Here's the link to AVL website:

AVL Internet AVL Facts

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by mag

The gearbox is more of the weak link when it comes to handling more powerful engines

I see U know your Autocar news