Originally Posted by Advocatus

As I might have mentioned before, my personal experiences over thousands of miles and those of countless others have led to us enjoying the roads and next to none of us have any points, or I should say, any accidents touchwood. Clearly, there is another view to be had.
Yes, same here,almost, 15 years of driving in india, and no accidents (yet)

I have 3 points on my licence which came from doing 34 in a 30 in Regents Park on a motorcycle at 2am.
see, that's silly!why should you get points for that?

National speed dual carriage limits are 70mph (with a discretion of upto 77mph), which gives you plenty of scope of enjoy yourself within the law.

I didnt have cruise control in my 10 yr old banger, but I would hold my speed at 77mph for miles and miles and still feel bored. I used to pray for a traffic jam , just to get the chance to accelerate 0mph to 77mph, i was that desperate.



One of my issues with Indian surfaces is that the fact you do not have speed limit issues per say, does not mean you can take advantage of the fact. You cannot trust your road.
Exactly!!! thats why its so much fun! you know that if you're not alert and scanning everything in front of you,and behind, and on the sides and in the bushes, you end up dead/maimed
If that is'nt exciting, what is?

No, bribery is not good and I am glad you said that. However, I can also agree that the regime here is getting a bit draconian and a lot of enthusiastic yet responsible motorists are feeling persecuted.

thats all I'm trying to say, UK has turned into a 1st class nanny state, and i found it intolerable living and driving there.I'm glad i had an option of leaving.


(a) a generally lower standard of driving and awareness-True

(b) generally older, lower standard of cars and correspondingly, braking and handling-true, but thats changing, and we are talking about good cars , new cars that are available in india

(c) issues with the surfaces and therefore safety- true


Common sense is great, but if you come around a bend at 80mph on what should be a bog standard, safe corner with a pothole, common sense won't help you. The pothole should never have been there and now you need a new set of joints.
Thats why its common sense! i would'nt do 80mph on a corner in india, unless i could be a 100% sure whats on the other side.
and thats how i drove in the UK too. I knew there would'nt be anyone cutting into my lane on corners, or jumping lights, but I still slowed for every corner and junction in the UK.

I find top speeds academic, but the fastest I've driven is in india. my highway speeds are higher here than when in the UK, and my most entertaining drives have all been in india.

I prefer accelerating, braking, swerving,overtaking, mauling the gearbox etc(generally being a hooligan) than simply stomping on the gas and waiting for the car to reach its top whack.
every time i drive out of my house in india, thats what i get.

with nicer cars in india, there is more scope to be a hooligan.

billiard table smooth surfaces, and a law abiding populace..thats dull.
I could'nt take it! but thats just me!

[throttleking]

my optra can touch 200kms/hr, but i hardly get a chance to touch even 180. but i still bought it, hoping that someday i will get chance to do that

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by rippergeo

I find top speeds academic, but the fastest I've driven is in india. my highway speeds are higher here than when in the UK, and my most entertaining drives have all been in india.
.
.
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billiard table smooth surfaces, and a law abiding populace..thats dull.
I could'nt take it! but thats just me!

Amazing reply and thought process. Each to his own. Best of luck.

[alias]

Problem is certainly not exclusive to Indian metro's since New York, London, Tokyo etc. face the same (if not worse) congestion problems. Its just as impossible to enjoy a high-end machine in either of these cities.

your correct the situstion is better than these cities however
its is not the advisible thing to do risking your self and other......



just wish had racetracks in india

[StarScream]

Let's break this down to city driving and highway driving as GTO did.
Many folks here have said that NY, London, Tokyo have as much congestion as Indian cities - true. But congestion is one part of it. Can you go to work everyday in those cities without the fear of some moron scratching your beautiful car? Yes, because people drive sanely. Your possession is safe. There are proper parking slots, which may well cost the earth but they are there if you are willing to pay for them. I don't have those comforts in Delhi.
Now let's take highways. People tell me Delhi - Jaipur is wonderful. Somewhere in Rajasthan there is even a barricaded stretch of highway akin to the best in the world (I've been told). I drive from Delhi to Punjab often - some bits are brilliant. I recently drove to Corbett National Park - again some parts of the drive were nice. The operative words here are `some bits'. I have never driven from city A to city B in India tension free. There are always stretches that are awful.
One good inner-city road is the Greater Noida Expessway. I've seen a yellow Lamborghini Gallardo being put through its paces there. Lots of rich Delhi brats test their toys on that stretch. Of course that is until they come to a screeching halt behind a stationary dumpster in the middle of the road. People in less powerful cars have died on that road.
I've also driven in Canada. You can maintain good speed (hasn't yet got as Orwellian as the UK). Beautiful roads, beautiful country. You hardly feel the journey. I believe, the roads that I have traveled in India, none are like that. We'll get there, someday.
My two cents in support of the motion that there is little point in having a really nice car in India because you can't enjoy it the way it is meant to be.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by Advocatus

You cannot trust your road. What lies beyond the next bend is your luck (with reference to trucker parked up on wrong side/middle of road, stones, giant potholes, etc).

Common sense is great, but if you come around a bend at 80mph on what should be a bog standard, safe corner with a pothole, common sense won't help you. The pothole should never have been there and now you need a new set of joints.

I agree to this part in a big way.

Originally Posted by Advocatus

Yes, that is annoying, particularly because that is an amazing route. It is intensely frustrating that a repsonsible, mature driver babysat by rigid margins.

It is furstrating but at the end of the day you are on a public road and there are these rules. But don't give up, hire an Elise for the day and do that same route again. If there is no-one in front of you and no-one behind you (as is oft the case) you'll have a ball.

To this, I dont.

It will always be open to chance, someone might still be sitting behind those bushes when I am doing 80 safely on a 70 zone.

I employ radar detectors, but they too are not foolproof.

That elise will enjoy more in India, it might have to slow down more for the blind corners. But by how much, will be left to my judgement versus someone in the law enforcement driving a boulevard cruiser judging what should be the safe limits for me in that Elise on that road.

[Advocatus]

It's just my opinion, but I would rather take 3 points on my licence (that has a limit of 12 points and points only stay for 3 years) than hit a boulder, pothole, cow or truck travelling on the wrong side of the road.

There is no doubt that the UK is fast becoming the world's biggest nanny state, but all things considered the motorist is still able to enjoy himself within (and occasioanlly outside) the confines of the restrictions as many, many do.

India is too vast a country and I am not stupid enough to claim categorically that there are no good driving roads. There must be some. However, the fact remains that it is a matter of scale and there is no doubt that European roads afford the owners of sports cars the opportunity to enjoy their cars and drive them as they were meant to be.

Anyone who claims they take the latest cars to the limits is either Schumacher, lying or just completely reckless. The ONLY place you can really enjoy the "limits" of a modern, high powered sports car safely and consistently is on a track.


And lastly, money is money and everyone is free to spend it as they like. To those who seem to indicate that I disaprove of people buying cars for reasons other than "purist" ones, I'll say again, I am no-one to judge what you with your cash. Do as you please, it just seems a waste to have a race-bred machine ragged to the golf course and back. Then again, it happens here plenty too.

[aaggoswami]

Yes its really true that most of the people buy very expensive cars just because they want to declare their presence. Generally its for Status or Status Symbol.

And improving road conditions is like going to sun and bringing ice.

[blue_pulsar]

Guys, guess its getting too much. Time and again, someone or the other starts to bash Indian cars or roads or economy. Few days back there was another thread where a guy from Dubai was bashing growth of Indian automobile sector growth and here is one more bashing our roads. We know we are a developing country and our growth rate is very slow. We not only have to build great roads and buy exotic cars, but also feed our poor people. That should be our first priority.

Also, it is not that we are stagnant. Roads are improving. Eg. the National Highways(especially the GQ ones) to start with are improving by the day. Once the highways are done, slowly we will get good state highways too. One good example of this is Bangalore-Mysore road. Almost a race track. Lots of curves too for the extra driving pleasure.

And we can never exploit the full potential of even a 50bhp car on the city roads.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

We not only have to build great roads and buy exotic cars, but also feed our poor people. That should be our first priority.

Just a little thought on the above statement.

The roads are not bad because it is of a lower priority than feeding the people of the country.

With the budget allocation done every year, I dont think it would have been an insufficient funds case preventing us from getting good quality roads. There is something else.

He is also talking about the road users discipline/awareness issue, that too has nothing to do with money not being alotted for such purposes.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by 1100D

Just a little thought on the above statement.

The roads are not bad because it is of a lower priority than feeding the people of the country.

With the budget allocation done every year, I dont think it would have been an insufficient funds case preventing us from getting good quality roads. There is something else.

He is also talking about the road users discipline/awareness issue, that too has nothing to do with money not being alotted for such purposes.

1100D, thanks for your last para, very fair of you!

Bluepulsar, I am assuming that you were talking about me when you referred to someone "bashing" the roads and the economy.

Allow me to point out the facts that you have sadly missed:

1. My original thread clearly presents itself as a muse, as exemplified by the penultimate para "Is there any way this forum could help in lobbying the necessary authorities to improve the state of the roads?". Clearly, I am asking a question and seeking to find a constructive solution. There is no doubt that India's vast network of roads is not in ideal condition, far from it.

2. None of posts "bash" anything. They simply state some home truths, many members here have had the good grace and maturity to accept that. Nothing is perfect and if your glasses are so rose tinted, its just sad. My post have also clearly stated my perceived issues that the UK roads have.

3. 1100D is completely right when he discusses the priority of roads over general poverty. As many of you now well, there is a huge budget allocated to authorities for road maintenance. As many of you also know, a lot of that money never sees light of day. Where does it go One poster mentioned bribery, corruption goes hand in hand with that particualr trait.

4. Indeed the condition of the roads is not stagnant. I was impressed with the highways in North India (I think it was Delhi - Agra? Can't recall now) but neither is it improving at the rate it should nor is it really fit (again a across the board, a matter of scale and not of exceptional surfaces in a few places) for some of today's top sportscars.

Bluepulsar, its all very well to take pride in your country. Everyone should. However, if you fail to recognise your failings you will never improve at the rate you should, whether you are a country or an individulal.

I do not seek to preach, but when you make a personal statement like claiming I am "bashing" away, its only fair that I speak in my defence as only 1100D has otherwise.

[sujaylahiri]

Originally Posted by StarScream

Let's break this down to city driving and highway driving as GTO did.
Many folks here have said that NY, London, Tokyo have as much congestion as Indian cities - true. But congestion is one part of it. Can you go to work everyday in those cities without the fear of some moron scratching your beautiful car? Yes, because people drive sanely. Your possession is safe. There are proper parking slots, which may well cost the earth but they are there if you are willing to pay for them. I don't have those comforts in Delhi.
Now let's take highways. People tell me Delhi - Jaipur is wonderful. Somewhere in Rajasthan there is even a barricaded stretch of highway akin to the best in the world (I've been told). I drive from Delhi to Punjab often - some bits are brilliant. I recently drove to Corbett National Park - again some parts of the drive were nice. The operative words here are `some bits'. I have never driven from city A to city B in India tension free. There are always stretches that are awful.
One good inner-city road is the Greater Noida Expessway. I've seen a yellow Lamborghini Gallardo being put through its paces there. Lots of rich Delhi brats test their toys on that stretch. Of course that is until they come to a screeching halt behind a stationary dumpster in the middle of the road. People in less powerful cars have died on that road.
I've also driven in Canada. You can maintain good speed (hasn't yet got as Orwellian as the UK). Beautiful roads, beautiful country. You hardly feel the journey. I believe, the roads that I have traveled in India, none are like that. We'll get there, someday.
My two cents in support of the motion that there is little point in having a really nice car in India because you can't enjoy it the way it is meant to be.

So true.
Even in congested cities like Toronto, Montreal (trust me, you WILL NOT want to drive in downtown Montreal once you've been there during rush hour, it's a lot like Kolkata) you do have to face a lot of hassle going to work during rush hour, but you definitely don't worry about getting your car hit as much as in Indian cities.

Despite being congested, people have a sense of responsibility and are courteous. Also they boast of an excellent public transport system (TTC, Montreal Metro) which is a very good alternative to driving to work.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

So true.
Even in congested cities like Toronto, Montreal (trust me, you WILL NOT want to drive in downtown Montreal once you've been there during rush hour, it's a lot like Kolkata) you do have to face a lot of hassle going to work during rush hour, but you definitely don't worry about getting your car hit as much as in Indian cities.

Despite being congested, people have a sense of responsibility and are courteous. Also they boast of an excellent public transport system (TTC, Montreal Metro) which is a very good alternative to driving to work.

Bang on. It's a question of degree, scale and relativity.

That being said, I have noticed less cars with battle scars in Bombay than in the "old days", say ten years ago. I think the reason for that is the range of choice and prices of cars. Perviously everyone drove a Fiat, Ambassador, Contessa or Maruti which all cost around the same (compared to the disparity today, eg. tatacar v. merc). I think everyone is a bit more careful thse days because of the sums involved, but yes, you'll get thumped eventually.

No one is bashing india or any other country on this thread. in that case, my posts could be construed as UK bashing.

I think the thread starter wanted to find out if there are people here, in India, with modern, fast cars who enjoy driving in india, more than they do elsewhere, though my cars are not especially fast or modern, I am one of those people.

the infrastructure is improving by leaps and bounds. the government is more proactive, and things are beginning to get done with less bribery than before.
everyone acknowledges that.

There is an acute shortage of consideration for other users of the road, but I think that comes out of years of struggling with substandard highways and vehicles.
Years of scrabbling for survival and a better life will make one inconsiderate towards competitors, its natural, but,things are getting better on that front too.For eg, people on the highways now dip their headlights more frequently than when I left India in 2002. The difference is palpable in just 5 years.

As road conditions and vehicles improve, so will law enforcement and speed limits. So enjoy while you can, 10 years down the line, we'll be just another boring developed country.

[zenx]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

... and our growth rate is very slow. ...

What ? No way our 8-9% over the last few years can be called that

Yes, the "faster" roads have not been built for the exclusive pleasure of motorheads and bikers (I lay claim to a little of both), but to ensure transfer of goods and people across cities and states is quicker (a truckie doing a steady 50-80 is a huge bonus over what used to be), safer and with much less wear and tear.

Also, the limits one explores (and that excite) are one's own, not the vehicle's/roads'. Though one should be as responsible - you tend to go over the edge once in a while if you stay there too long.