Originally Posted by rks

I agree with the thread-starter that we are not ready for super-fast cars. It is not just a question of having fun, it is a question of safety. If you want to do sustained high speeds, say in the 150 kmph range, then most of all you need *predictability*. Roads must be predictably good, people should predictably stick to the foot-paths, lane discipline must be predictable and so on. Two-wheelers, cycles, autos, bullock carts to be banned, animals should be fenced out, etc., etc. But where do we have such conditions? The Mumbai-Pune Expressway is one such road, but even there I have seen very few people doing sustained high speeds in the 140+ range. For the simple reason that it is not safe, with slow traffic in all three lanes. I have not seen many people in the bigger, heavier sedans willing to cut lanes and zig-zag their way through traffic at 140+ kmph.

If you leave out the Expressways, give me a small maneuverable car with just enough acceleration for both city and highway, and I will have lots and lots of fun on Indian roads. Don't need the bigger, heavier sedans or super-cars. Yesterday I started from Hadapsar in Pune at 8-55 PM and I was in Sion, 174 kms away, at 11-05 PM in my old Santro. That is an average speed of ~80 kmph through moderate traffic in a supposedly slow car, but cuts through traffic like a hot knife through butter. Come to think of it, it is not that much of a sluggard even on the Expressway, with its ability to cut lanes at will. More than good enough for me.

Of course I would be happier if I had a more powerful car on most roads in the advanced nations. But on most Indian roads, it is not safe to drive the powerful cars to anywhere near their full potential. In my view the heavy acceleration these cars are capable of (which we all lust after) is a killer. Remember that the greater the acceleration, the more difficult it is to bring the car to a halt or to change course, in case of emergencies. We will see many, many accidents if people rip around in super-fast cars on our roads.

rks, Completely agree on what you said

You have at least the Pune – Mumbai highway to drive at 150. Now what I am about to say is my personal view, Owning or driving around in a high powered car in the state of Kerala is of not much use. Now don’t get me wrong. There are very few stretches where you could get you car up to 120 mark . The only road I was to go above this speeds were on the road from Cherthala to Aluva- Angamaly . Again this was with frequent breaking and grear shifts

Some of the few huddles faced on the road.-

No barriers for pedestrians often see people running across the road, same with bicycles

Lack of bus bay, even if there are , they never stop at the right points

The worst thing I came across was – vehicles taking a U turn to take the opposite track. The U turn is taken on the extreme right track , without any pocket roads , so this is what u end up like, while doing a above 100 speed on the extreme right track, the vehicle in front immediately takes a U turn, all you can do is jam on the breaks or take a quick left with is often not possible due the traffic on these roads.

Once again this is my opinion. I am sure a lot of my malayali friends will have a different view point.

[rks]

Originally Posted by rippergeo

i can be driving at 40kmph through the city in a little hatch, and still have fun, and not worry about being photographed by the govt for speeding.

for eg- the thread starter himself got ticketed for doing a piddling 34mph in a 30mph zone at 0200hrs.How silly is that?

I am glad that I do not have to worry about such scenarios here in good old India (at least not yet). Yesterday, on the bridge approaching Lonawala from Pune on the Expressway, I saw the speed limit sign at 30 kmph; looked down at my speedo and it was reading 120 kmph! I was still slowing down, but did not go below ~90 kmph on the entire bridge. The sheer absurdity of this speed limit never fails to amaze me even now, when I have done this route dozens and dozens of times. If somebody sees this speed limit and were to brake to slow down, he would be much more of a hazard than I would be at 120 kmph.

See, I love driving like that, but some people think that is rash, and its not going to be long before someone on the forum flames you for driving like that, and me for admitting that i like driving like that.
as long as I'm not running anyone off the road, or making them swerve or panic brake,i think I'm being safe! people might disagree, but I think its logical.

Of course it would be safer to stick to my own lane, and I'd rather drive in my own lane if i had the choice. but that option does not exist in india. you have to weave and lane change like mad to get somewhere on time. The thing is,I enjoy doing that.

So do I. And with painfullly slow traffic on all lanes, I agree that there is no other practical way to drive, if you want to get from point A to point B in reasonable time. But here it is important to recognize that such a driving style has its own dangers and the driver must be skilled and alert at all times, never letting down his guard.

I don't agree, the faster a car can accelerate, the safer it is. it means you can complete your overtaking maneuver before danger gets to you from the opp lane.

If you say that the car accelerated too fast for you to control it, you have no one else to blame but you and your right foot.

It is true that for a given overtaking scenario, the car with better acceleration would be safer. But the problem is that heavy acceleration would seemingly bring within range scenarios that are out of range for the less powerful vehicles, which wouldn't even consider such scenarios. Once a driver commits himself and accelerates, he should be 100% certain that nothing will go wrong. But so many little things can go wrong on our roads and the margins for error will be considerably less in such overtakes, because you will get committed to the overtake very early.

I personally prefer to maintain speed and overtake with minimal acceleration whenever possible, as this allows me to abort or change course at the last possible moment. The key is that a small maneuverable car like Santro allows me to maintain speed on even traffic-filled and relatively narrow roads. On the bigger and heavier cars, you have no option but to rely on acceleration as you will get slowed down more frequently due to lack of road space.

This point was driven home to me as I was following a Ford Mondeo on the Pune bypass road (a relatively narrow, traffic-filled 4-lane highway). He got stuck behind a lorry, I saw the gap to the left and ripped past the guy and the lorry ahead. Looked in my mirror, and sure enough, the guy was provoked. What happened afterwards would have scared the living daylights out of a less experienced driver. The Mondeo guy just could not accept that he had to let me go under those conditions and kept accelerating crazily to zoom past me, only to get stuck ahead. I would then again overtake him. It occurred to me that his overtaking maneuvers were far, far more unsafe than mine. I relied on maintaining speed and maneuvering, while he relied on brute acceleration.

Originally Posted by ajibba

rks, Completely agree on what you said

You have at least the Pune – Mumbai highway to drive at 150. Now what I am about to say is my personal view, Owning or driving around in a high powered car in the state of Kerala is of not much use. Now don’t get me wrong. There are very few stretches where you could get you car up to 120 mark . The only road I was to go above this speeds were on the road from Cherthala to Aluva- Angamaly . Again this was with frequent breaking and grear shifts

you may have a very wrong impression about me and others on the forum here who prefer driving in india over other countries. we dont drive over 120kmph all the time. we drive at speed when it is safe.

the thread was about whether we have roads to use these high powered cars.

i still maintain that india has excellent opportunities for the enthusiast.and those opportunities are better than the ones available in the UK.

I hope you understand that fast driving is not automatically rash, and i also hope that you realise that enthusiastic drivers dont necessarily drive everywhere at the max possible speed attainable by their car.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by zaks

Hmm.. a post about why high performance cars are not suitable for India starts off a brickbats galore- what a shame guys. Wasn't his supposed to be a purely automobile related question? why are people bringing in nationalistic passions to the answers, just goes to show how much emotional we as a nation are. The first few posts entirely concluded the question so to speak and the rest is all off-topic

I agree. It was a just a question really. I know what its like to drive in India and basically wanted to know what there out there that I have missed. Its a huge country. Will try GTO's suggestions when I get back and see if if that changes my view, in case it is out of date/.

[Advocatus]

Originally Posted by rippergeo

you may have a very wrong impression about me and others on the forum here who prefer driving in india over other countries. we dont drive over 120kmph all the time. we drive at speed when it is safe.

the thread was about whether we have roads to use these high powered cars.

i still maintain that india has excellent opportunities for the enthusiast.and those opportunities are better than the ones available in the UK.

I hope you understand that fast driving is not automatically rash, and i also hope that you realise that enthusiastic drivers dont necessarily drive everywhere at the max possible speed attainable by their car.

RKS: excellent post bout Pune highway, etc. Very measured.

Rippergo: To quote you; "I hope you understand that fast driving is not automatically rash, and i also hope that you realise that enthusiastic drivers dont necessarily drive everywhere at the max possible speed attainable by their car."

That is the crux of my point. I never said you can't have fun - I've had a ball on occasion myself. I am talking about exploring the capabilities of a high performance machine. I have been lucky enough to get behind the wheel of such cars in Bombay and abroad and I certainly could not drive half as "enthusiastically" as I can here.

As you have just said yourself, "the thread was about whether we have roads to use these high powered cars.". Therefore, the thread is not about having fun or being an enthusiast. With respect, I think you are talking at cross purposes?

Faster cars require higher standards across the board. Fact.

When i used the word 'enthusiast' I thought it was obvious that I meant with reference to powerful cars. Perhaps I wasnt clear enough, so I make that point again.

Originally Posted by rippergeo

actually, indian roads are predictable. there is always someone cutting into your lane from the opposite side at a corner, there is always a slow vehicle crawling in the passing lane. that auto you see screaming at its rev limit in front of you will try to execute a U turn just as you start to overtake it.

Indian roads are predictable. they are always unsafe.

Jesus Christ mate, have a read of that again if that is what you meant! What you have highlighted is the necessity for constant vigilance due to unpredictability.

and I have to agree with RKS, some of your posts whether they were sarcastic or not do in part stand for the attitude of lot of drivers who do cause accidents and are rash.

[racer_m]

Mods please cleanup if discussed but i did not find much info about this topic in the forums.

How do exotic supercars (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) and the super premium segment cars(Jaguar,Bently,etc), which have a very low GC (typically between 5" and 6" or lower), drive on our Indian roads and in the cities.

I always had this thought in the back of my head. Staying in Bangalore(Notorious for the tallest speed breakers in the country) and seeing the increased sightings of these exotics here in the other threads, I wonder if the owners chart or some special routes so that they dont end up like a see-saw

I do know that these cars can be fitted with hydraulic lifts which increases the GC by some margin (to tackle ramps, kerb parking) but is it feasible to do it every time you encounter the numerous humps?

Would like to hear some experiences/information from members/owners about this topic

[DieselFan]

Supercars in India are meant for Showing off not for driving. >99% of our roads do not accomodate them.

[nowwhat?]

I too have always been curious on this one aspect. Supercars such as Audi R8 and even the more affordable BMW M3 come with very low ground clearance to create a low center of gravity.

It is unfathomable how one of these can be driven on Bangalore roads, not that I have seen one on Bangalore roads. Also these cars really take off with a gentle foot on the accelerator, so I have wondered how driving one of these on our roads must be like. I can only imagine it to be stop and go or rather go and stop.

I know there are many who own supercars in Bangalore. I have heard that the ex BPL CEO has a few, but I have never seen one of his even though I live in the same locality.

So what is a supercar owner to do? Do they take the cars on flatbed trucks and race them on BMIC or a racing track?

Any comments from a supercar owner would be educational for the rest of us.

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by racer_m

How do exotic supercars (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) and the super premium segment cars(Jaguar,Bently,etc), which have a very low GC (typically between 5" and 6" or lower), drive on our Indian roads and in the cities.

Thanks for opening up this topic racer_m. I have been having this doubt inside for a very long time but never thought of opening up on this.

Like say, for instance, if NICE Road in Bangalore can be used for a couple of high speed runs in these exotics, how do these expensive beauties enter and exit the NICE Road? If I remember correctly, every entry/exit from NICE Road has some notorious speedbreakers that threatens the underbody of even normal cars like Honda Civic, let alone the ground-hugging exotics. Most other cities in India are in the same condition too. Probably, Mumbai-Pune Expressway could be a lone exception.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Supercars in India are meant for Showing off not for driving. >99% of our roads do not accomodate them.

. I can't agree more with you. Where are the roads, the racetracks and the conditions in India to run, relish and maintain these supercars?

[theragingbull]

Most supercars have an option of hydraulic suspension lift which increases the GC to a decent height so that the supercar can go over speed bumps easily. Most Indians opt for this feature. Dippy drove the Ferrari 458 Italia few weeks back and he said he didn't scrap the floor of the car at even one speed bump!

Driving supercars in India is now a lot more easier than before. Roads are pretty good down town in Mumbai where most of the supercars reside.

[racer_m]

Originally Posted by theragingbull

Most supercars have an option of hydraulic suspension lift which increases the GC to a decent height so that the supercar can go over speed bumps easily. Most Indians opt for this feature. Dippy drove the Ferrari 458 Italia few weeks back and he said he didn't scrap the floor of the car at even one speed bump!

Driving supercars in India is now a lot more easier than before. Roads are pretty good down town in Mumbai where most of the supercars reside.

Well that's what I had mentioned in my opening post! but I was not sure if they could be kept on constant lift mode.
Would not that be stressful for the hydraulic lifts, especially when they were not designed to be always on active mode.

[Chetan_Rao]

Even the NICE Road isn't safe throughout. The one section I frequently use (ORR-Mysore Road) has some really bad trough-type sections, bad enough to bottom out a regular road-car if you're driving fast enough, forget a low GC supercar.

[theragingbull]

You can drive in the city constantly at a 'lift-up' mode. No issues with that. Once you go on the highway, just lower the suspension.

[schakravarthy]

Well, I found these pics on FB. Thought it would make a nice addition here.

[SunnyBoi]

That car is way too clean to be driven even a hundred meters on that road. Must have been flat bedded to Kardung La to pull off the stunt hehe