[ranc]

I just went for a 3000 + km vacation in my SX4. and never ever once faced any problems which others have mentioned.

1. Rattling : After 3000 kms of driving on various roads including a trip to Rohtang and crossing a 20-30 km strech of steep mountain in Himachal close to Swarghat with no road at all, pure gravel, NO Rattling at all

2. EPS : Felt a little bit of favouring to one side when I started off at high speeds but later I was doing consistent 100 -150 on highways and didnt feel a thing.

3. Plastics : Who are we comparing to, "a merc" then for sure plastic quality is bad, but if your comparing with a City. I find City's interiors to be dated. The scorp is bad so is the grande and even the Safari is not good either, Verna & Fiesta are probably comparable and mind you some of these are 10+ lakh cars.

4. Boot : I was on a 11 day trip, imagine how many times I would have opened the boot with my mini fridge (and my luggage) in the boot, never faced any problems.


The grunt and pickup of the car is amazing much better than the Palio & the City we are talking about, it might not be as good as a Verna Diesel but it is still better than the Fiesta & Verna Petrol, The ground clearance is excellent and you need it when climbing to Rohtang or on bad roads. I dont know what people are complaing about the car is good it is VFM the a.s.s is excellent the dealer network is good the spare parts must be cheaper than most fiats, Hyundais, fords & the Gm's

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by amit

Fellow SX4 owners: Everytime my car goes over a minor rough patch , joint, ridge on the road, I can feel the steering tilt towards the left and the car makes a very minor change of direction. Either I have to correct the change in direction or anticipate and hold the steering tight. Is this (in Maruti's language) 'normal'?

This is known a Bump Steer....a function of suspension geometry not the type of power assist. Should't be happening in a car designed for India.

[supremeBaleno]

@amit, from your posts on this and other threads, I see that your experience with the SX4 has been real bad - you have only complaints about the car. IIRC I do not remember reading anything that you liked about it. Maybe the car is as bad as you say or it is as good as other users (like ranc) say. Having never driven/used one, I have no idea.

But, what surprises me is how you ended up buying this car, inspite of having quite some previous experience with cars ? Plus, being a part of tbhp (and a D-bhpian at that) I am sure you would have done a proper & rigorous testdrive - maybe even more than once. Did none of these issues show up in the TD car ?

The other options you had in that segment were the NHC, Aveo1.6, Fiesta1.6, Verna1.5P etc and if over all of them you chose the SX4 and then find it such a totally crappy experience, I would think that more than the car, you need to take a good share of the blame for the current situation that you find yourself in. It was your decision after-all and not like you were forced to buy that car.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by praveen_v

Swift/Sx4 has ESP??

and it cuts off at 40 KMPH !!!!!!!!!
LOL, you meant the EPS didnt you??

When i test drove the Swift, i didnt like the EPS one bit. It was detached from the road and i felt no feedback. It felt exactly like I was driving a car in NeedForSpeed in PC with my gaming wheel!!

And as palioman mentioned, the only great thing in that car is the engine, and that is from Fiat.

Oh ,my God, a huge typing error:
It must ahe been EPS not ESP.
Sorry for the error.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Guys, the Baleno boot lid is not really light. It is sprung heavily, so it pops up and floats like that. If you ever remove the boot lid, you will be amazed at how stiff the springs are. The hood, on the other hand, is not sprung, and thus feels heavy.

We have never disconnected so dont know the real weight.

Originally Posted by VBV

Going through the thread, makes me think about any opinion on the Internet. Let me try and make my point if possible.

I have a SX4 and I've driven it for 12K and on various types of roads. There have been rattles, but its from the suspension after I'd driven for about 2K in about 3-4 days on really bad roads. The boot is fine and I know atleast three of my friends who do not have problems with the boot.

IMHO, EPS is not faulty, it takes time for people used to different kind of steering to get adjusted to SX4. I took quite some time as well, but a few trips in ghat sections got me up and running. IMHO, the concept of steering, handling, NVH, power bands are all very subjective and differ from person to person. I've also seen these depend on self-image, brand-image etc., I am a firm believer that I need to drive in relaxing mode, so I really like my power to appear in bands where I can overtake a truck. There are people I know who'd like more power from start-up. So such perceptions are different from person to person.

Similarly, plastic quality is a matter of perception and I like utility more than looks, so I find the lack of more spaces to keep things troubling than the quality.

As has been pointed out, the car has had production quality issues. I have been fortunate and the car I have has very few issues. A few others have probably been unlucky in getting a really bad egg. The natural tendency with owners is that we spend more time voicing out opinions, where we feel we have been cheated. What I mean is if I've got a lemon, I'm more likely to speak out than if I I've got a good deal. So its likely that opinions are not well represented on both sides.

Given that perceptions of design quality are subjective and production quality might not be equally represented, would the Internet be a good forum to judge quality? Would the fact that rattles are being heard in the forum be representative of the real world at all?

VBV
PS: I've had great service from Maruti.
PPS: I deon't want to deny its negatives or its positives, overall I think its a good car for its worth.

You are correct. Chaning a car can sometimes be tough for the intial period.

Originally Posted by arajand

To me, the SX4 is a great looker. I remember the first time I saw it on Brigade Road, B'lore - a red SX4 stopping at traffic. Wow!

A few months later, I found myself at a Maruti showroom enquiring about the Swift, and there was a silver SX4 being backed up, inside the showroom. I had another Wow moment. I changed my mind then and there and decided to go for the SX4 (regardless of the strain it would be on the pocket).

Now the SX4 design takes off from the FIAT Sedici. The Swift runs on the FIAT engine. The SX4 looks great, the Swift runs great, and FIAT somehow seems to have something to do with both of these. So I don't think a FIAT-MARUTI comparison is all that unwarranted.

The two times I checked out the boot when I took test-drives of the SX4, the boot-lid refused to close shut with one 'bang'. In fact once, the salesman and I were bouncing it back and forth a few times before it closed . And I got the standard reply

"Sir, ye aisa hi hota hai".

In case of SX4/Sedici, it was suzuki that desinged the car and asked for diesel engine. Fiat sold diesel engine technology for money. SO SEDICI DESIGN TAKES OFF FROM SUZUKI SX4. SX4 is based on stretched Swift paltform and for Europe is manufactured in Suzuki's Hungary plant.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by Elito11

I believe all of Maruti's problems arise due to lack of product strategy and bad core philosophy.

Maruti as of today makes OMNI's and 800's, it also makes cars like Swift DDIS and SX4.

There are very NO major manufacturers across the world that can have THAT kinda product portfolio and be successfull, and by successful i mean REALLY successful.

The point i am trying to make is in trying to live up to its success and No 1 position Maruti as a company has lost track of what it wanst to make and for whom!

Does it really have to be a mass manufacturer?! How can it expect SX4 to compete with NHC when it continue's to sell relic's like Onmi and 800, when it continues to undertyre its wagon R's, Swift and likes!!

What drives it to make such cars

...money?? i am sure it can make far more money if it hikes prices of Swift and Sx4 while ensuring delivery and quality.

...being No1?? With so many car companies coming in Maruti will face challenges..does it stll expect to have 60% of all car sales in india?

... what about brand image, innovation, exports etc?? When will i see a NEW small car, a upgrade to Alto (apart from ads and sickers) or Wagon R, how about revamping the Gypsy??

As of today we have a waiting for SX4, SWIFT and Dzire. Is it neccessary? ABsolutely not.

Dzire is simply a bad car.

Philosophy - Need to replace Esteem? or Just add a boot to Swift and make a cash cow.

Did MUL really NEED to add a boot to come up with a three box sedan to replace Esteem?? Why could it not have designed a NEW three box sedan? a proper new design with diffrent interiors, a proper chassis and maybe a diffrent powertrain. One can expect this from a young Indian manufacturer like Tata, but from an established Japanese Marque it was certainly not expected. So this is what we get a wierd looking three box sedan that carries over all the faults of a SWIFT with only one benefit - BOOTSPACE!

I believe Esteem was a far better car in its day than Dzire is by today's standards. It was engineered to be a three box sedan unlike Dzire.

I am sure esteem and Zen left sufficient assembly line space for Dzire and likes. Wagon R does not sell the same numbers, did MUL not see these constraints??

Despite being so many years in India, did MUL really expect GV (bad interiors, lack of diesel and no specialist service backup) to be successful? (atleast in its current avatar!)

I believe it is lack to attention to these queries which is resulting in above problems. MSIL is burdened with being a No1 people mover and a philosophy that aims at making JUST money (reminds me of GM!)

My 2 cents

Elito

In case of Tata Indigo, tata also took a shortcut, okay now fogive Tata. Honda did the same with Jazz and then ripped off ABS in a car that can do high speeds. And we were buying that.
So its not Maurti alone that is doing this. Ohters are also doing this.

Maruti has each and every right to sell Omni, 800 along with GV (Grand Vitara ) as this is democracy. There is a market where not every one can afford NHC( sold without ABS till SX4 came ), Civic ( low ground clearence, but no improvement almost 2 years ). For them 800/Omni can prove a blessing.

SX4 is a proper sedan and NHC is nothing but shortcut booted Jazz and overpriced. Still why only maruti is being hit hard.
I really fail to understand what is wrong here. Ohters have also done the same thing. Honda Accord had fuel pump failures ( those who read overdive will remember this ), and honda accord is "LUXURY CAR".


And lastly, its upto our own views and how we compare that results into our feeling. You cant compare SX4 with merc. NHC is also not without flaws.

[RJK]

Originally Posted by amit

We are talking about the Dzrie boot but what about the SX4's? The damn thing just refuses to shut unless it's banged down hard at least 2-3 times. Everytime my car is checked at a mall, I have to park it and then shut the boot because the security guys didn't realise it was open and I don't blame them. A couple of times my office guys put something into the boot and while driving I realised that it was open and had to pull over and shut it.

Amit,
Nothing of that sort happens in our SX4, trunk shuts on the first go...I think you have terrible luck with the car.
It does sound like you completely dislike the car and going by your experience you have every reason to; don't you think its best to sell it off ?

[gopinathann]

Amit, only thing I could say is that you ended up getting a faulty car. Try to correct it with the dealer, otherwise wait for the Fiat Linea and replace the car. Though you lose money spent on SX4 hope you will be happy if you get Linea.

I am happy with the SX4 replacing it with the Santro. I don't have any problems which you have mentioned though I have some niggling issues.

Originally Posted by amit

Thats exactly what iffy quality or lack of QC means.


I don't mind you laughing at me but I honestly thought I was upgrading. Looking back at my ownership experience, I think I have actually downgraded!

If this was said by a Fiat or Ford service advisor all hell would have happened here. Just because it's Maruti or Honda, we change our tune to 'all service personnels are illetrate'.


...........



Revert back to point 1.

[Torque123]

According to me Swift has only 2 good qualities in it. They are a peppy engine (when AC is off) and a cool exterior look. As i mentioned earlier in this thread the peppy engine of swift gasps for breath (huge power loss)when you switch on the AC.

With regards to MUL they are mainly targetting the segment of people who are buying cars for the first time. I will never buy a Maruti again until they improve their service quality and also come out with really good designed cars. I think estilo is far better than dzire in terms of looks. Its not the # of service centers a company has...It is finally what is the quality of service those service centers are providing.

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by Torque123

With regards to MUL they are mainly targetting the segment of people who are buying cars for the first time. I will never buy a Maruti again until they improve their service quality and also come out with really good designed cars.,

You have a good point there my friend!

Its an experience to own a Maruti as your first car these days and you get to know a lot about your car with all the niggling issues.

If you own a Good car you feel passionate about the car

[iTNerd]

Originally Posted by amit

I don't mind you laughing at me but I honestly thought I was upgrading. Looking back at my ownership experience, I think I have actually downgraded!

lol.. .. I couldn't stop myself.. if that is such a junk, i think you will be better off with a tank..

If this was said by a Fiat or Ford service advisor all hell would have happened here. Just because it's Maruti or Honda, we change our tune to 'all service personnels are illetrate'.

Seriously, tell me a good Fiat servicing center anywhere in India.. if they were so good, they won't have to beg TATA to service their cars.. and u know what, I feel pity for those of my closed friends, who enthusiatically bought Palios, but wept when they had to handover to Tata servicing centers, and still find problems thereafter, and only to find, they only changed the oil and nothing else... a battle is not won by great guns but by the soldiers who operates them..

I am not benchmarking the SX4 against the Palio. The Palio comes into the picture only because it's the other car I own and a car that I know inside, out. If I owned a Standard herald, I would compare it to that car.

I don't think you would have settle quite easily, even if you had bought NHC, Fiesta, Verna etc.. you'll still report lot of issues, which are apparently not there in Palio.. sometime, you just got to admit, that different cars can have different characteristics..

Besides, how would it feel if you bought a Rs.8.xx lakh car and found it lacking against a Rs.5.xx lakh one? How then can I dare to compare it to cars it actually competes against?! Why does a hatch of 5 lac car close with a re-assuring thud while the boot of a 8 lac car require you to shove it hard again and again to close?

you already answered that youself before.. lack of Quality Control (QC).. fix the boot and you have one less complain... as simple as that...

No one said the Palio is the perfect car in the world.

Thank God.. at least we agree on something...

Do you know the drawbacks of the Palio? I do. And I shall be glad to discuss the Palio negitives with you. But are you ready to accept the negitives of the SX4? I log onto a public forum and talk openly about the niggling quality issues of my 8 lac rupee car at the risk of being laughed at. How many people would have the guts to do that? If the boot on my car wouldn't close, I will say it. If I feel the EPS is faulty, I will say it and I will say it to the engineer who designed the EPS.

Will be interesting to actually learn any issues/negatives with the Palio from you.. really!! FYI I already have accepted various issues with my SX4 in my long term ownership thread... and with proper complains and authorative attitude, I got my drive shaft changed, fixed hard gear issues.. etc.. and to highlight, these are something of engine mechanicals, something without which, the car does not make sense at all.. LOL.. I don't think one require any guts to highlight issues with the car.. if you think all other SX4 owners are just keeping issues inside them, then how come this and other threads on SX4 issues came up at the first place.. btw, as you paid for it, you should get a perfectly running car..if you are not, you have every right to say it that is faulty..you don't need to wait for your guts to admit that...

[swift8847]

Originally Posted by Torque123

the peppy engine of swift gasps for breath (huge power loss)when you switch on the AC.

I completely agree with this point. There have been times when i had to switch off the AC for a few seconds to overtake.

[amit]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@amit, from your posts on this and other threads, I see that your experience with the SX4 has been real bad - you have only complaints about the car.

Yes the expereince has been bad.

IIRC I do not remember reading anything that you liked about it.

There are a few things I like about it. Problem is the niggling issues haven't been sorted out by the industry leading Maruti dealers. The boot for example. If the dealers had sorted out the problem the first time it was reported, this issue wouldn't have blown up into such a huge issue. Why blame the owner? Why don't you read my initial review and see the faults with which the car was delivered to me? The handbrake, for example, was barely working when the car was delivered. Obviously, the PDI wasn't done.

Maybe the car is as bad as you say or it is as good as other users (like ranc) say. Having never driven/used one, I have no idea.

Yes ranc reported zero issues with his car. Just before his comments are comments from arajand who has reported the exact same issues as mine with the boot of another SX4. I wonder why you ignored that.

But, what surprises me is how you ended up buying this car, inspite of having quite some previous experience with cars ? Plus, being a part of tbhp (and a D-bhpian at that) I am sure you would have done a proper & rigorous testdrive - maybe even more than once. Did none of these issues show up in the TD car ?

Search the forum for my initial review. The answer to why I bought this car is there. I always knew the EPS would be dead and lifeless and I knew the dash plastics were not upto mark but I was willing to live with both these for the features the car showed. The boot on the demo car was okay. The car had done 7800kms and there were no rattles. I guess you are trying to tell me that I should have anticipated these issues in my car?!

The other options you had in that segment were the NHC, Aveo1.6, Fiesta1.6, Verna1.5P etc and if over all of them you chose the SX4

Yes. Reasons are on my initial review thread.

and then find it such a totally crappy experience,

After 12K kms if the car has rattling door panels, metal clunking sound when it goes over potholes and rough roads and a boot that refuses to shut easily and dealers that claim thats how boot of all cars are then would you call that expereince anything less then crappy?

I would think that more than the car, you need to take a good share of the blame for the current situation that you find yourself in. It was your decision after-all and not like you were forced to buy that car.

Have I blamed anyone for me buying this car? I don't know what you are trying to say here. Are you doubting my reports on the car? You think I am lying about the issues I am facing with the car? Or are you trying to tell me that since 'I was not forced to buy the car' I should shut up and not report on the problems? In that case, we should shut down the technical section that we have on this forum.

[amit]

Originally Posted by iTNerd

lol.. .. I couldn't stop myself.. if that is such a junk, i think you will be better off with a tank..

I have never called the SX4 junk.

Seriously, tell me a good Fiat servicing center anywhere in India.. if they were so good, they won't have to beg TATA to service their cars.. and u know what, I feel pity for those of my closed friends, who enthusiatically bought Palios, but wept when they had to handover to Tata servicing centers, and still find problems thereafter, and only to find, they only changed the oil and nothing else

The statement wasn't about good or bad servicing center. It was about hypocrisy that we show. If a MUL or Honda service advisor says something stupid, they are all illetrate. If a Ford or Fiat advisor says the same thing, we call them cheaters and claim that big companies are giving pathetic customer service. Go to the Indian dealerhip section. There are enough threads from me about pathetic Fiat dealerships. I am not blind to faults of cars or dealers I go to unlike a lot of people here.

I don't think you would have settle quite easily, even if you had bought NHC, Fiesta, Verna etc.. you'll still report lot of issues, which are apparently not there in Palio.. sometime, you just got to admit, that different cars can have different characteristics..

Metal clunking sound when the car goes over rough patches is 'different characterstic'. Rattling after 12K kms is 'different characterstic'?

you already answered that youself before.. lack of Quality Control (QC).. fix the boot and you have one less complain... as simple as that...

Have you been reading what I have said about the response from 2 different dealers on the boot issue? Yes, I agree with you that if the dealers had fixed the boot the first time, this issue would never have been reported by me. Did I make a huge issue over the barely functioning handbrake on my car when it was brand new? I didn't because it was fixed immediately.

FYI I already have accepted various issues with my SX4 in my long term ownership thread... and with proper complains and authorative attitude, I got my drive shaft changed, fixed hard gear issues.. etc.. and to highlight, these are something of engine mechanicals, something without which, the car does not make sense at all..

If your hard gear issues were not solved would you still say that 'different cars have different characterstics and we should accept it'? That's a lot of stuff done on your new car. And that is precisely the purpose of this thread. By the way, if you owned a Fiesta and these things were done on that car, would you still say 'I have accepted the issues in my car'?

Since a lot of people here are getting irritated with the comparision of the SX4 to the Palio despite my making it clear why it's being done, let me bring other cars I have owned and driven into the picture.

Daewoo Matiz: 4 Years, 45,000 kms when it was sold. No rattles. Hatch closed properly. Dealership expereince was crappy.

Hyundai Santro: 5 years and 65,000kms. No rattles. Hatch closed properly. No weird sounds from anywhere till the day it was sold.

Ford Ikon: 5 years, 62,000kms still going strong. Barely any rattles. Boot shuts nice and tight even today.

Now you know why the SX4 cuts such a sorry figure? Why are rattles such a big issue? The SX4 costs more then the Matiz and Santro combined! If those two cars didn't rattle till the day they were sold why should I accept rattles on the SX4? I hope it's clear that it's not about the SX4 not being as good as the Palio.

The next time someone uses the term 'Fiat fanboys' I am going to give a link of this thread to them. Ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome 'Maruti fanboys' on this forum.

[amit]

Looks like some people haven't understood the purpose of this thread. No-one is saying that the Swift or SX4 are bad cars. No one is saying that they have pathetic quality. The newer cars from Maruti come with incosistant quality. There is a difference between bad quality and inconsistant quality. Why are we taking this personally? Here are some comments from actual Swift and SX4 owners. The comments below prove that both Swift and SX4 have incosistant quality.

I am quite shocked with the interior quality and overall built quality of my 1 month Swift. Rattles started from Day 1 as expected.

My friend just bought a Swift 4 months ago and has 1500 k kms on the odo.
The Swift rattles like hell. On Saltlake roads ( Kolkata ), the rattles are loud enough to cause temporary loss of hearing. Even a 30 yr old Amby rattles less.
The clutch vibrates.

I have a SX4 Zxi that has done 12,000+ Kms. Door panels are rattling. All 4 of them. Even the speakers are beginning to rattle.

The rattles are there.

Haven't had the problems you've faced on the EPS front. I drove with hands off the wheel for 75ft on asphalt and concrete roads and car did not veer off.

I haven't experienced/felt or heard any rattles till now

The swift is,to say the least BAD.My dad regrets the day he bought it,

Ended up buying a Swift for my wife three years back. no rattling

but use the Swift (Mar'07) extensively because my Dad has one, and I have not heard any rattles anywhere

I just went for a 3000 + km vacation in my SX4. NO Rattling at all

I was on a 11 day trip, imagine how many times I would have opened the boot with my mini fridge (and my luggage) in the boot, never faced any problems.

The two times I checked out the boot when I took test-drives of the SX4, the boot-lid refused to close shut with one 'bang'. In fact once, the salesman and I were bouncing it back and forth a few times before it closed . And I got the standard reply

"Sir, ye aisa hi hota hai".

no issue with the boot atleast on mine

The damn thing just refuses to shut unless it's banged down hard at least 2-3 times.

Swift VDi: it is accompanied by a plethora of rattles and thuds..my car is 2500 kms and a 45 days old.

I hope some of the comments above make the meaning of incosistant quality clear. If it isn't, please check the dictionary. There is a limit to spoon feeding.