[amit]

Why is this thread so important for Maruti?

Don't know how many of you read yesterday's newspapers where it was reported that Maruti is planning to abandon their small, cheap car maker image for a more upmarket car maker image. Maruti, the article said, now feels that Tata are taking over the tag of the people's car maker and therefore, it's time Maruti moved up a few segments.

The first step is to refurbish their sales staff. Supposedly, they are hiring around 1500 new sales staff and are training them on how to deal with upmarket premium customers. They are benchmarking Honda and Toyota sales staff for the same. The article also said something about more engineers being employed in their R&D section to improve their cars - probably meant try and make their cars more upmarket and luxorious. Article is in yesterday's HT or Indian express. Would be great if someone can scan the article and put it up here.

All this sounds wonderful. The cars already come with luxo features like ABS and Airbags (in the Indian context), Climate control, steering mounted controls etc. So feature wise, Maruti is already moving upmarket.

BUT, what about the rattles? What about the cheap plastics and interior fittings? A premium car isn't about features alone. It's also about little things. A air-conditioned glovebox in a SX4 would be an overkill, the absence of the same on a Kizashi would be a blunder. A SX4 can get away with lack of a arm rest, the Kizashi can't. Imagine the JK tyres from the SX4 on a Kizashi. Imagine the thin section that separates the boot from the passenger cabin in a Kizashi. Imagine the poor quality headlamps that the SX4 comes with on a Kizashi. Imagine the rattles the SX4 comes with on a Kizashi.

Would a Kizashi customer tolerate rattles, cheap interior fittings or clips and a boot that refuses to shut properly?

[gopinathann]

well said supremebaleno. Some of the SX4 owners manage to get 12-13 in city with AC. I used to get around 12 in the City with 100 % AC which is a good thing for this heavy car with wider tyres. Also heard some getting the worst mileage like 8-9.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

See, the problem is that we want everything in a car, and there is no car which has everything and can please everyone.

Before the SX4 came out, we criticised MUL for the puny tyres in their cars (eg. BalenoLxi had 165/80/R13), the build quality (their cars weighed lesser compared to peers), the low GC (Baleno scraping badly-built-humps with more than 4 people on board), not enough power (Baleno detuned to 91bhp from earlier 94bhp). And most of these were attributed to MUL's gameplan of targetting better FE.

And when MUL addressed all of these concerns (16" tyres which cars in even a segment above don't have, better build quality leading to a kerb weight of 1200kg, the best GC in its class, 102bhp of power etc) with the SX4, we now want FE also. It does not work that way.

The Baleno with a weight of 975kg, 91bhp, puny tyres etc gives me 12kmpl in Chennai with 100% a/c. Now, if you add 200kgs to the car, increase the power by some 10bhp and slip on wider tyres and still expect it to give 12kmpl, then that is practically impossible. You get some, you loose some. And this is true for every car.

You want FE ? Then go for something like the NHC - lightweight, low on power which is just about enough for puttering around the city and jsut about adequate for the normal highway user.

P.S.: I am not saying that they trawled our forum, looked at our concerns, went to the drawing board and came up with the SX4 as an answer to our prayers.

[The Hurricane]

Well if i were to speak about the mileage of my SX4. i get around 16km/l on the highway with the AC full time running, i have no idea how i get thats good mileage. as of now i have 2 very fuel efficient cars in my new SX4 and my 10 year old Matiz. have had no issues with the SX4. i agree that the NHC has a better built quality but trust me the SX4 gives me more for my money and the SUV feel has to be felt i drove my car through water filled roads with more confidence than i would have done in a NHC thats my personal viewmany might have different views on it i mean its just a personal feeling thats matters in this case

[diabloo]

Some people have problems coming grips of reality. Can't help.

Originally Posted by spadival

Even I feel NHC fan boys are the loudest and they actually give a bad name to the Honda brand. I think there should be a self imposed limit on gross exaggeration and fawning over the NHC !!

BTW, in this forum NHC is such a loud mouthed car that members think twice, thrice before putting a word of appreciation. Then when did you find them loud?
What are the exaggerations? Can you name at least one?

[Jeep]

You meant that one's pocket becomes lighter after buying a NHC? You need to compare it to the prices of other entry level sedans, with that 77 bhp engine under the hood.
No annoyance? That noisy suspension can be forgotten because it is a Honda, right?

Originally Posted by diabloo

NHC is tried & tested product around the world. The owners in India have first hand experience and they share their honest opinion. They are not born make profits for Honda . All they need is a very good car - Light on pocket, Pleasure to drive, No Failures, No Annoyance. NHC offers that .

[diabloo]

I guess you never went to a market. Then you would have known whether the pocket becomes light or not. FYI, light on packet mean less running cost.

Originally Posted by Jeep

You meant that one's pocket becomes lighter after buying a NHC?

If you want the cheapest sedan, it costs 4L. But NHC costs 7L. Thats its price. When you goto market you get apples for 20/Kg and also for 80/Kg. You choose which apple you want.

You need to compare it to the prices of other entry level sedans, with that 77 bhp engine under the hood.

Woh, thats a new one? What is that noisy suspension?
Why would anybody drive with a noisy suspension? If ithe suspension is noisy, they will take the service center to task. Anybody experienced it?

No annoyance? That noisy suspension can be forgotten because it is a Honda, right?

[amit]

IMO the fuel efficiency of the SX4 is found low by people because they compare it to the NHC but they forget to think of the more powerful engine, bigger tyres and lesser aerodynamics of the SX4 due to it being a tall sedan.

I have no problems with the fuel efficiency of my SX4. My driving is 60/40 highway/city, A/c always on.

Driving route, driver and driving style is the same.

SX4: Tyre pressure at 28psi against the recommended 32psi. Average monthly mileage from December to April is 12.50 , 12.50 , 12.65 , 11.10 , 11.62kmpl.

Palio:Tyre pressure at 26psi against the recommended 29psi. Average monthly mileage in the same period is 12.09 , 12.30 , 12.73 , 11.46 , 11.17kmpl.

SX4 has a 102bhp engine, bigger tyres and a weight of 1200kgs and has lesser aerodynamics due to it being a tall sedan. Palio has a 100bhp engine and weighs 1080 kgs.

Considering all of the above parameters, SX4 is more fuel efficient then the Palio.

[supremeBaleno]

@amit, any specific reason why you run your cars with lower than recommended psi ? On the forum I see recommendations to actually pump more than recommended psi, especiallly for highway driving.

Originally Posted by gopinathann

Some of the SX4 owners manage to get 12-13 in city with AC. I used to get around 12 in the City with 100 % AC which is a good thing for this heavy car with wider tyres. Also heard some getting the worst mileage like 8-9.

SX4 is a newbie to the market comparitively and hence it would take sometime before we get an idea about FE figures. On the forum I keep seeing a pretty wide range of figures (anything from 8 - 13kmpl).

Going by the logic in my previous post, I would expect it to be somewhere within the 9-11 range for Chennai city with 100% a.c (I specifically mention Chennai because there are variations from city-to-city). But I don't own one, so no way I can verify this for sure.

Originally Posted by suman

There was a time when the forum would castigate a Ford Fiesta 1.6 with 101 bhp for "low" FE even if it gave in excess of 10.5-11 kmpl in city conditions.

Bringing the Fiesta into this discussion would be kind of OT. So, let us just say that while I agree that the Fiesta1.6 has many pros (handling, interiors etc), FE ain't one of them.

P.S.: I mentioned the SX4 only because it was the subject of discussion of this thread, and not to support a MUL product, as you put it.

[spadival]

Originally Posted by diabloo

What are the exaggerations? Can you name at least one?

OT: I thought it was obvious. I was referring to the "NHC tried and tested around the world" bombshell that you dropped. NHC is probably the only model from the Honda lineup that is limited to South Asia. All of their other models - Civic, Accord and CR-V are sold all over the world.

[amit]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@amit, any specific reason why you run your cars with lower than recommended psi ? On the forum I see recommendations to actually pump more than recommended psi, especiallly for highway driving.

The reason is that if I run the cars on manufacturer recommended air pressure, I find the ride quality very hard. Besides, all car makers recommend a higher air pressure in the interests of fuel economy. Maruti, of course, is a master in this.

when I do expressway driving, the air pressure is inflated by about 2-3 psi which still is less then what the manufacturer recommends.

[suman]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Bringing the Fiesta into this discussion would be kind of OT.

You are absolutely correct, the thread is about Swift & SX4 only. But then, since you took the liberty of bring in the 800 & the Baleno quite a few moons ago, I thought I'd do the same

[JayD]

Originally Posted by spadival

pgsagar is right. Even I feel NHC fan boys are the loudest and they actually give a bad name to the Honda brand. I think there should be a self imposed limit on gross exaggeration and fawning over the NHC !!

I tend to disagree here! Where are the fiat palio guys??
Also, in this entire forum, i havent seen any false claims on the NHC, unlike claims for the baleno, palio etc. Nobody calims its a sportscar or anything, It Drives quite well, Its REALLY not as underpowered as some make it out to be, Gives the best FE in its class(for petrols), and has decent comfort. I Own an NHC, and a petrol Fiesta, so i know what i'm comparing it with. Agreed. It looks a little Odd, but that's about the only flaw it has.

Originally Posted by Jeep

You meant that one's pocket becomes lighter after buying a NHC? You need to compare it to the prices of other entry level sedans, with that 77 bhp engine under the hood.
No annoyance? That noisy suspension can be forgotten because it is a Honda, right?

Honestly Jeep, have you ever driven an NHC?? If u have not, then pls refrain from the "It has only 77bhp" phenomenon. (90% of the people who say the NHC is a damp squib have never driven it. Its no sportscar, And it is not meant to be one.It really feels adequate for the car. I agree, its overpriced for the features it offers, but comfort wise and the ownership experience, its worth the extra cash. And don't forget the resale.

P.S: If u really need 100 bhp, go for the Vtec.

[spadival]

Originally Posted by JayD

I tend to disagree here! Where are the fiat palio guys??
.

One last OT comment: JayD, I dont think you would fit the description of a Fan boy. So the comment wasnt directed at you or any Honda car owners.

[omishra]

Originally Posted by amit

After 12K kms if the car has rattling door panels, metal clunking sound when it goes over potholes and rough roads and a boot that refuses to shut easily and dealers that claim thats how boot of all cars are then would you call that expereince anything less then crappy?

Amit, let me say you are one in ten thousand person who got most faulty car. Yes, this can be possibility.

Mine SX4 is also completed 12K and no such issues are present.

My 5 year old son can close boot lead in one go!

Steering: On highway, it drives straight at 120kmph too, though I keep little less - around 90-100kmph

No rattles.

I agree you are finding issues which must not have present at the time of delivery itself. Please try to get solutions.

@M'bai T-BHPians: please help Amit to find good MASS (if he needs). I can understand what happens with someone's experience of buying new (better?) car turns into experience-like his.

[Jeep]

Originally Posted by diabloo

I guess you never went to a market. Then you would have known whether the pocket becomes light or not. FYI, light on packet mean less running cost.

sarcasm against sarcasm, i like it!

Originally Posted by diabloo

If you want the cheapest sedan, it costs 4L. But NHC costs 7L. Thats its price. When you goto market you get apples for 20/Kg and also for 80/Kg. You choose which apple you want.Woh, thats a new one? What is that noisy suspension?
Why would anybody drive with a noisy suspension? If ithe suspension is noisy, they will take the service center to task. Anybody experienced it?

I would pick the one that costs Rs 20/kg, if the difference in taste/freshness between the Rs.20 one and Rs.80 one is not tangible.

Regarding the suspension noise, I myself experienced it in my friends NHC. There are a couple of owners in here who reported it.